Not much outrage regarding the YouTube shooter

[UtahPete]

until our penal system starts punishing those that break the laws instead of blaming guns, ammo... nothing will change... people that want to kill other people will use other means to do so.. just reflect back at some of the means beside guns that criminals use to kill people.. air planes -911 .... Oklahoma City - bombing... New York City - U-Haul truck.. (get the picture?) our penal system has been watered down to the point criminals do not fear any punishment because there is none... murders kill and sit in rest homes (suppose to be prisons) they have TV, basket ball courts, weight workout rooms, and so on.. lawyers, prison owners do not want the death penalty... simply because its a huge money making system.. check it out , just read it costs $30,000 on average to house a prisoner (OBSURD) .. so many states outlawed the death penalty... go back to the ole EYE FOR AN EYE punishment and watch things change...

That's complete nonsense.

[Bob Denman]

Why do you say that?
It sure sounds pretty reasonable to most of us.

[UtahPete]

Why do you say that? It sure sounds pretty reasonable to most of us.

That's not surprising.

[Bob Denman]

So: you have no reason for your statement...

[UtahPete]

So: you have no reason for your statement...

Personal bias. Same as everyone else.

[Bob Denman]

You could have said that a LONG time ago...
So if you don't want to use incarceration as a deterrent: how many criminals are you willing to take under your wing, and re-educate?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

pete explain why you say that, i would like to know.

[UtahPete]

pete explain why you say that, i would like to know.

My previous lengthy attempts to articulate an alternative viewpoint have been for naught. Sooner or later the thread gets pulled and I have to start all over again. Got better things to do with my time.

But, I will weigh in occasionally with a short response, as I did above, just to provide some balance to an otherwise lop-sided 'argument' (I won't dignify it by calling it a discussion or exchange of ideas).

[UtahPete]

You could have said that a LONG time ago...
So if you don't want to use incarceration as a deterrent: how many criminals are you willing to take under your wing, and re-educate?

I've learned mis-direction and obfuscation from the master, Bob.

[johnsimion]

Why do you say that?
It sure sounds pretty reasonable to most of us.

Having represented many unwanted clients in prisons and jails, I've seen the actual conditions and I agree with you and Orange Spyder Man on that issue. While **we** wouldn't like to be in prison, the living conditions there are frankly a big step up for many others in our society. This is wrong, it's not a deterrent if people don't mind going there. In SC, there was a prison riot thought to be related to cell phones (this from CBS, not Fox). We coddle our prisoners too much already -- it just boggles my mind why prisoners would ever be allowed cell phones.

[BoilerAnimal]

until our penal system starts punishing those that break the laws instead of blaming guns, ammo... nothing will change... people that want to kill other people will use other means to do so.. just reflect back at some of the means beside guns that criminals use to kill people.. air planes -911 .... Oklahoma City - bombing... New York City - U-Haul truck.. (get the picture?) our penal system has been watered down to the point criminals do not fear any punishment because there is none... murders kill and sit in rest homes (suppose to be prisons) they have TV, basket ball courts, weight workout rooms, and so on.. lawyers, prison owners do not want the death penalty... simply because its a huge money making system.. check it out , just read it costs $30,000 on average to house a prisoner (OBSURD) .. so many states outlawed the death penalty... go back to the ole EYE FOR AN EYE punishment and watch things change...

Exemplary hyperbole!

[BoilerAnimal]

Having represented many unwanted clients in prisons and jails, I've seen the actual conditions and I agree with you and Orange Spyder Man on that issue. While **we** wouldn't like to be in prison, the living conditions there are frankly a big step up for many others in our society. This is wrong, it's not a deterrent if people don't mind going there. In SC, there was a prison riot thought to be related to cell phones (this from CBS, not Fox). We coddle our prisoners too much already -- it just boggles my mind why prisoners would ever be allowed cell phones.

Cell phones are not allowed in prison. They are small and easily concealed, allowing them to be smuggled in just as any other contraband.

[Bob Denman]

I've learned mis-direction and obfuscation from the master, Bob.

black-sabbath-master-of-reality_3dd1e53a-6549-4e50-a1b1-01fa82e35908_1024x1024.jpg

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

black-sabbath-master-of-reality_3dd1e53a-6549-4e50-a1b1-01fa82e35908_1024x1024.jpg

just remember when you listen to fools the mob rules

[Bob Denman]

just remember when you listen to fools the mob rules

Complete with RJD on vocals...
Did you ever hear the "Duet", with him and Ozzy for "Iron Man"???

[johnsimion]

Cell phones are not allowed in prison. They are small and easily concealed, allowing them to be smuggled in just as any other contraband.

You are correct that they're illegal but guns and knives are also small (or can be) and how many of THOSE were in that prison? There were so many cell phones in that prison that the prisoners were sharing video with the CBS reporter and sending texts out of the prison. When you have that many cell phones, the only logical conclusion is that the cell phones were either condoned or tolerated. This from CBS: "The sheer number of illegal cellphones being smuggled into the state prisons [note emphasis on "prisonS"] points to the collusion of prison guards." And THAT implies that the warden and supervisory personnel were turning a blind eye to it or they would have ordered the guards to search everything and confiscate all the cell phones. See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-c...ison-violence/

And I can't help but notice that cell phones were the ONLY thing you folks could contradict in my so-called "diatribe."

[RinconRyder]

Why do you say that?
It sure sounds pretty reasonable to most of us.

Potential criminals don't tend to think about the possible penalties before they do their crime. Nobody thinks they will get caught.

[Bob Denman]

Potential criminals don't tend to think about the possible penalties before they do their crime. Nobody thinks they will get caught.

While I do agree with your point: I think that by making it less desirable to be locked-up; might cut the recidivism rate.

[UtahPete]

While I do agree with your point: I think that by making it less desirable to be locked-up; might cut the recidivism rate.

There are any number of case studies that demonstrate amply that the threat of incarceration, even death, is not a deterrent. Recidivism rate will go down only when we do more to help former inmates transition to a productive life. But, that's expensive and we'd rather just keep thinking we can solve it by making prison less attractive. Hasn't worked ever since there were prisons.

[Bob Denman]

There's no argument against the fact that applying the death penalty as often as possible; helps to cut the chances for repeat boarding at the local jail...

[Holly]

There are any number of case studies that demonstrate amply that the threat of incarceration, even death, is not a deterrent. Recidivism rate will go down only when we do more to help former inmates transition to a productive life. But, that's expensive and we'd rather just keep thinking we can solve it by making prison less attractive. Hasn't worked ever since there were prisons.

To bad the statistics say otherwise.......

[UtahPete]

There's no argument against the fact that applying the death penalty as often as possible; helps to cut the chances for repeat boarding at the local jail...

True

[RinconRyder]

it just boggles my mind why prisoners would ever be allowed cell phones.

They are not. The phones are smuggled in.

[RinconRyder]

While I do agree with your point: I think that by making it less desirable to be locked-up; might cut the recidivism rate.

Take a close look at Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Tent City (just ended operation after about 20 years). He made it as miserable as possible for those inmates, fed them green balogna sandwiches, let them freeze in the winter and boil in the summer and told them if they didn't like it then don't come back.

Tent City was always full.

[Holly]

Do you think we are fools ?????????? Nobody freezes in AZ.............