Doctors in Canada think they make too much and others make too little

[vided]

No, I didn't. I said;

I'm a libertarian .

you did it again

[loisk]

The petition is about doctors in the public system - in public hospitals and the like. They are talking about the distribution of scarce resources, ie taxpayers dollars, within that system. They are seeing the nurses and other hospital professionals, with whom they have to interact, being poorly paid, understaffed and overworked - and are simply stating their preference that those scarce dollars go elsewhere within their health care system for the benefit of staff and patients.

I presume that, as in oz, not all doctors are in the public system - their salaries remain market-driven. This is not about minimum wages anywhere... It is not about anything outside the public health care system in Canada. I am unsure as to whether the USA has public hospitals along the same funding basis, with (almost) free health care for all.

Democracies are based on utilitarianism - broadly, the greatest good for the greatest number. How they achieve this, eg big/small govt intervention, varies across countries and eras. Democracies are not simply about what the majority wants - governments have a role of governing for all, not just a numerical majority on any issue. A key role is the equitable division of scarce resources, including to health care, but the list covers so much more.

i for one applaud the Canadian doctors petition.

To the person who mentioned the steel/aluminium tariff - it's not just China! If it isn't softened, or targeted, your country will suffer economically (and in other ways) along with the rest of the world.

[vided]

I should have known it was too much to hope for an intelligent discussion on this forum.

IMG_2834.jpg

[UtahPete]

The petition is about doctors in the public system - in public hospitals and the like. They are talking about the distribution of scarce resources, ie taxpayers dollars, within that system. They are seeing the nurses and other hospital professionals, with whom they have to interact, being poorly paid, understaffed and overworked - and are simply stating their preference that those scarce dollars go elsewhere within their health care system for the benefit of staff and patients.

I presume that, as in oz, not all doctors are in the public system - their salaries remain market-driven. This is not about minimum wages anywhere... It is not about anything outside the public health care system in Canada. I am unsure as to whether the USA has public hospitals along the same funding basis, with (almost) free health care for all.

Democracies are based on utilitarianism - broadly, the greatest good for the greatest number. How they achieve this, eg big/small govt intervention, varies across countries and eras. Democracies are not simply about what the majority wants - governments have a role of governing for all, not just a numerical majority on any issue. A key role is the equitable division of scarce resources, including to health care, but the list covers so much more.

i for one applaud the Canadian doctors petition.

To the person who mentioned the steel/aluminium tariff - it's not just China! If it isn't softened, or targeted, your country will suffer economically (and in other ways) along with the rest of the world.

God, why can't Americans understand this? We are, in many ways, really ignorant and therefore doomed.

[Holly]

God, why can't Americans understand this? We are, in many ways, really ignorant and therefore doomed.

You really need to stop getting your news from The Washington Post and CNN.

[loisk]

Huh?
What are you saying Holly?
That the Canadian doctors petition doesn't exist? Or what?
FYI the info in my post did not come from any newspaper!

[Netminder]

Our Canadian health care system may not be perfect, but let me tell you from personal experience it definitely works when you need it the most. I applaud the doctors from my home province for realizing our tax dollars could go to other hard working people within their profession!And nobody worry, my oncologist retired on his boat in France, and good on him, but they are not hurting, while some others in the health care field deserve more.

[blitzkreig]

As a Canadian ...

Canadian Drs. for the most part participate in the "public health system". They don't have to ... they can opt to be outside of the system and bill what ever they want when ever they want.

They are (for the most part again) paid fee for service. So a visit to the Dr. depends on what you are seen for. Most office visits cost far less than $100 (Canadian of course). From this amount the office staff, the real estate costs, and all of the consumables must be paid. That is why you get less than 10 minutes with the doctor. The doctor must pay multiple nurses and office staff from that gross amount. The costs of education come out of that and that could be much more than $100,000 in student loans alone.

My Dr. uses a different billing system which is called "capitation" in which they are paid a flat fee to keep me healthy. Whether I see the Dr. or not. Or if I see the Dr. hundreds of times in a year ... The very same amount. It is just over $1,000 per year (again Canadain money here). Again from that amount comes staff costs, drug costs, real estate costs and etc .... Kind of a gamble if you ask me but it is a lifestyle decision to go the capitation route.

Most family doctors are paid net of all costs very reasonably if you ask me. Somewhat less than $200,000 per year.

Specialists are paid considerably more of course.

So why a family doctor would protest overpayment beats me.

[RinconRyder]

I'm not looking for anything other than an intelligent discussion.

The headline doesn't explain what is really going on. In the province of Quebec there are other health care workers who are not being paid what the doctors think is required by their jobs. So they are suggesting that the doctors return the raises they were awarded and the money distributed to these other parts of the health care system. It is sort of a strike without the strike.

[UtahPete]

The headline doesn't explain what is really going on. In the province of Quebec there are other health care workers who are not being paid what the doctors think is required by their jobs. So they are suggesting that the doctors return the raises they were awarded and the money distributed to these other parts of the health care system. It is sort of a strike without the strike.

Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?

[JerryB]

Hi Pete,

Re: I should have known it was too much to hope for an intelligent discussion on this forum.

Yup.

Jerry Baumchen

[r1100rider]

Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?

there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to

[wyliec]

there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to

I'm looking at my 1040A, and I don't see it. I do see on line 48A where it asks how much you want refunded to you from your over payment. Is that what you're talking about?

[wyliec]

Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.

[UtahPete]

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.

It was about whatever thoughts the article brought to mind. For me, it was the incredible difference in attitudes between our two countries. It is the difference between a caring society and one that is not. As individuals, we may be generous toward others less fortunate, but as a society we are not.

[kep-up]

It was about whatever thoughts the article brought to mind. For me, it was the incredible difference in attitudes between our two countries. It is the difference between a caring society and one that is not. As individuals, we may be generous toward others less fortunate, but as a society we are not.

Really?? That comment is so not well thought out (stupid?) that I won't comment on it any further. "Snowflakes don't know when to quit", sooo accurate. Getting a grip on real life seems to also be rather difficult.

[vided]

broken-heart--bleeding-heart-michal-boubin.jpg

[UtahPete]

broken-heart--bleeding-heart-michal-boubin.jpg

Exactly. Thanks for demonstrating so graphically what I was saying.

As a society, we denigrate as 'bleeding heart liberals' those who view society as a team effort, rather than 'survival of the fittest' (and meanest).

[vided]

Here's some jewelry so you can pin it on your sleeve IMG_1991.GIF

[RinconRyder]

Well the government puts restrictions on how many wives you can have, but it doesn't stop those fine outstanding citizens that live in Utah.

The "gubmint" didn't put limits on anything - the people did - through their representatives in Congress or through state or local gubmints.

You should read up on our gubmint. Find out where the laws come from.

My point is, law breakers don't abide by restrictions no matter the subject matter is.

Well.....duh! That's why they call them "lawbreakers".

[vided]

Is that your idea of wit?

This just keeps getting better and better.

You really don't act like a librarian

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.

there was a less fortunate who ask for money last night at a nyc subway and when he said no the bum beat him up
and smashed his phone. I guess this is the less fortunate we should help.

[Holly]

there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to

I'm looking at my 1040A, and I don't see it. I do see on line 48A where it asks how much you want refunded to you from your over payment. Is that what you're talking about?

Ron, you must of over looked it.

There is clearly a box dedicated to the resistance where they can pay the extra money. I included the photo below and pointed to it with a red arrow.

tax form.jpg

[vided]

Exactly how i knew you'd react

[r1100rider]

The "gubmint" didn't put limits on anything - the people did - through their representatives in Congress or through state or local gubmints.

You should read up on our gubmint. Find out where the laws come from.



Well.....duh! That's why they call them "lawbreakers".
[/LEFT]

if they just wouldn’t sell us all out once they get elected