Give me your tired, your poor

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I think it is time to be reminded what a certain structure means to the world, and to our heritage.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Emma Lazarus, 1883

[DGoebel]

AMEN brother, most of us are immigrants (or descendants of), legal or otherwise at some point in time.

[pegasus1300]

And that my friends is our dilemma. How do we live up to the spirit of those words and spirit that led to those words and that statue in the first place. How do we keep our promise to those who came to the front door and knocked and did all we asked of them and got their citizenship as they should with a promise to support our laws and our country and know where and how we got the rights and freedoms we have? How do we rescue the ones for whom there was no legal place,but who are here never the less and doing everything they can to live productive lives and raise their families in law and safety? I don't have any answers and neither does anybody else of national prominence or influence that I have heard.All I do know is somewhere, somehow one day we are going to have to swallow a pretty bitter pill.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

....... However there is a HUGH difference between legal immigration and what is the currant issue ...... jmho ...Mike ............. PS and Yes I like the Wall thing

[ARtraveler]

Both sets of grandparents saw Lady Liberty upon immigrating to this country. Legally.

[UtahPete]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

[RinconRyder]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.

[ofdave]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

No where does it say we will financially support them, so let them come just don't let them take.

[Big F]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

BINGO! you hit it right on the head. forget the gazillions of dollars they want to spend on building a wall and retrain Homeland Security personnel that are competent to protect the border. this approach would save the taxpayers millions of dollars. issue solved.
BIG F

[Machinegunner]

Mexico has a wall on its southern border. Several countries near Turkey are building walls. They must think they work.

[UtahPete]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.

Actually, unless it's changed, the immigration law provision allowing for sponsorship of family members does require the sponsor to accept responsibility for sponsorees. It's been used by American military service members to bring extended family members of their foreign-born spouse into the country.

Immigration is a complex issue deserving of thoughtful bi-partisan debate and periodic updates given the ever-changing geopolitical environment.

[UtahPete]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.

You would be right, except that we have not had unrestricted immigration since 1883. Immigration law is very complex and is a very large portion of the State department responsibilities.

[Bob Denman]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.

We actually agree on something...

[RinconRyder]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.

Consider that the majority of illegals work for real companies so they pay into SS and income taxes. But because they are not legal they cannot claim benefits or refunds from those. In addition, they pay sales and property taxes just like the rest of us.

[Bob Denman]

But they use faked I.D. credentials to do this...
It might even be yours or mine!

[MR. H1956]

How do you think all the legal folk that was born here felt when these company's fired or layed them off So they could hire all the illegals they could just to get cheap labor so they could save money and pad their own pockets.Some of my friends that were brick layers and carpenters lost jobs to illegals so their bosses could save lots of money and have nice new things while they live on food stamps and lose everything they worked hard for all their life.Now tell me where is the justice in that deal at.

[UtahPete]

How do you think all the legal folk that was born here felt when these company's fired or layed them off So they could hire all the illegals they could just to get cheap labor so they could save money and pad their own pockets.Some of my friends that were brick layers and carpenters lost jobs to illegals so their bosses could save lots of money and have nice new things while they live on food stamps and lose everything they worked hard for all their life.Now tell me where is the justice in that deal at.

There is none. Those company owners that break the law should get shut down and go to jail. But, if those 'illegals' are actually green-card holders then there is nothing wrong with what the company owners did. The real culprit is 'right to work' laws that discourage organized labor - everyone gets screwed by that (except the capitalists of course).

[Rogue Hawk]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

Walls are obsolete and a waste of money. Walls worked great when the Chinese where keeping out Mongolian horsemen. But I think modes of transport and digging technology have improved just a bit since then.

[ofdave]

Consider that the majority of illegals work for real companies so they pay into SS and income taxes. But because they are not legal they cannot claim benefits or refunds from those. In addition, they pay sales and property taxes just like the rest of us.

do you really believe that? A "majority"?
I mean, really? Property taxes?
Do you understand the penalties companies face for hiring illegals? (at least here in FL, they would have problems if they did)

I bet illegals don't get any form of welfare or free medical care either, right?
.

[MR. H1956]

Ok I quit, this is turning into another ar15 thread. Will it get to 17 pages who knows. But lets just live and agree to disagree nothing gets settled. Ride safe my friends. Happy Trails. May the Spyder God WATCH OVER YOU.

[RinconRyder]

do you really believe that? A "majority"?
I mean, really? Property taxes?
Do you understand the penalties companies face for hiring illegals? (at least here in FL, they would have problems if they did)

I bet illegals don't get any form of welfare or free medical care either, right?
.

I don't know what the situation is in Flori-duh but here in AZ:

Most undocumented workers work for bonifide businesses (mostly construction). Some of them are into drug and gun smuggling, yes.
Virtually all of them pay into SS and have taxes deducted just like the rest of us.
None of them are allowed to receive welfare and "free" medical care is supplied at the behest of the provider - no tax hit.

Hiring illegals is a farce. They will simply buy someone's SS # which passes the background check and the employer can then say "well, we didn't know" and is off the hook.

[UtahPete]

I don't know what the situation is in Flori-duh but here in AZ:

Most undocumented workers work for bonifide businesses (mostly construction). Some of them are into drug and gun smuggling, yes.
Virtually all of them pay into SS and have taxes deducted just like the rest of us.
None of them are allowed to receive welfare and "free" medical care is supplied at the behest of the provider - no tax hit.

Hiring illegals is a farce. They will simply buy someone's SS # which passes the background check and the employer can then say "well, we didn't know" and is off the hook.

All I know is that, as with most things, neither party has the solution; a solution will be found when a middle ground is negotiated by both sides. That hasn't happened since Mitch McConnell famously declared, in catering to the virulent right-wing base, that Job#1 for Republicans was to ensure President O was a one-termer. Great way to lead the country.

[Bob Denman]

The "Train-Wreck" has left the Station...

[UtahPete]

The "Train-Wreck" has left the Station...

As far as I'm concerned it left the tracks a long time ago.