Companies dumping the NRA

[RapidSpyder]

I heard someone talk about a common factor being the lack of a good male role model in the family. Bluntly put no one has shown them what a real man is.

In high school, several of us had guns and ammo in our vehicles (And fishing rods). I think our main thoughts by about 2 o’clock revolved around shooting birds or rodents or catching a few walleye. My how the times have changed...

[UtahPete]

Could you tell us the source of that statement? If a Teacher were to be armed: their SOLE purpose, is to get the students secure, lock the door, and wait for the Law Enforcement Personnel to come get them. They will announce their presence before entering, and the Teacher should respond: letting them know that there is a firearm in the room with them. They would then be given instructions as to how they should stand down...

Not to be argumentative, but if that's the case what is the point of the teacher being armed?

And, then there's this; https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texa...ot-man-disarms

[Trickie Dick]

Well the first instance of an armed teacher going nuts just occurred today. Didn't take long,did it. Seems like several of you predicted this in earlier posts.
Meanwhile an interesting article regarding the reduction of gun related injuries during the nra conventions. Nationally there has been a drop of 20%. This was published in the New England Journal of Medicine,(renown for fake news) and authored by professors from Harvard and Columbia U.

[UtahPete]

Well the first instance of an armed teacher going nuts just occurred today. Didn't take long,did it. Seems like several of you predicted this in earlier posts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...school-n851986
What's worse than a mentally ill student with a gun? How about a deranged teacher with a gun?

Folks, I never thought I'd agree with the Draft-dodger-in-Chief but I do think he's right that the issue is mentally ill people with guns. The problem is how do you determine that someone is unsafe with a gun? What do you do about normal people who are suddenly, temporarily deranged and have a gun, like this teacher?

We have zero resources in this country to address mentally ill individuals who can be helped (except for the VA). Particularly when you consider that most health insurance plans outside of *****care have zero provision for extended mental health care. This is a problem we're not talking about and need to be.

If we took the Homeland Security budget and constructed a world-class mental health care system that was FREE to anyone who asked for help, we could solve a lot of the problems in this country (and empty the jails) and be MUCH safer than we are now.

[asp125]

Haven't heard about that one. Do you have a link to the article?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...ource=facebook

Yet another instance where the mental health of the individual is a factor.

[JerryB]

Hi Dick,

Re: New England Journal of Medicine,(renown for fake news)

I challenge you to prove that statement.

I used to read it regularly; pretty factual IMO.

Jerry Baumchen

[UtahPete]

Hi Dick,

Re: New England Journal of Medicine,(renown for fake news)

I challenge you to prove that statement.

I used to read it regularly; pretty factual IMO.

Jerry Baumchen

I think he was being facetious with the parenthetical remark.

[ThreeWheels]

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

lets be real this stems from the lack off good parenting

A letter to the editor of the Idaho Statesman on Feb 26.

For many years, the gun shop on Ustick had a sign stating “It’s not gun control, it’s son control.”
In light of the tragic events that have brought unbelievable grief to our nation, I have this to say. As a mother of 40 years and a grandmother, there is no such thing as “son control.” How much easier my life would have been if every word of caution and direction was heeded by the children in my life.
Before mass shootings were even a discussion, a co-worker told me her father took her brothers to gun safety classes and promised severe punishments if the household gun rules were disobeyed. Yet, she knew each of her brothers opened the locked gun case and showed off the family hunting rifles when the parents weren’t home. Son control?
On the first day of hunting, my brother took the rifle from the broom closet, aimed it down the street, fired. It had been loaded in the house since the last season.

Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/opinio...#storylink=cpy

[UtahPete]

I'm not sure what your point is. The problem isn't mass shootings but abortion?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have a question. How many people can a mentally deranged person kill if all he has is a semi-automatic rifle with a 6 round magazine compared to an AR-15 type weapon with a 30 or 50 round magazine that is modified to fire automatically?

Mental illness is only one part of the problem.

BTW, I will second Bob's discussion in the other thread of the NRA gun safety training program. An NRA rep, not of their political arm, talked to us at a Lions Club meeting discussing their program to promote safe and sane gun use. I was pleased with what I heard.

[ARtraveler]

tick, tick, tick...

[RinconRyder]

lets be real this stems from the lack off good parenting

Not in all cases. Once someone turns 18 years old they cannot, by law, be "managed" by their parents. Should someone go off the rails after this time it is up to various agencies to detect, detain and manage the mental illness. This is not being done currently and the Florida shooting bears this out. There were half a dozen warnings given about the shooter and yet he fell through every single crack. Several people tried "parenting" Cruz but for one reason or another were either unsuccessful or he successfully hid his wacky behavior.

[RinconRyder]

Shouldn't there be an intelligence test and 'means' test before giving out marriage licenses? Maybe a mental aptitude test, too. And, a waiting period of six months at least.

What good would an "intelligence" test do? Unless someone is totally dysfunctional how would you determine their suitability for marriage? I have known several couples who are dumb as rocks but very happy together.

And what about a 'means' test? Your wealth can change daily so what is appropriate today may change radically within a six month period. Look at all the people who contract an expensive disease and go bankrupt trying to pay for medical care.

A waiting period? Just run off to Mexico or some other country who doesn't have a waiting period. Too many loopholes.

[RinconRyder]

Sadly they are not doing it willingly but from fear. Dick's is looking for publicity seeing as they stopped selling those guns in their main stores after Sandy hook six years ago. As mentioned the value of life has been so diminished it will take generations of learning to eliminate such incedents. but agreed this is not the NRA at fault...

Most corporations Board of Directors is individually and collectively responsible for operating their company in a lawful and business manner. They can be sued or jailed for failure to protect company assets. Their brand is a huge asset and has significant value. Being associated with another company that is viewed as a pariah damages that brand. The NRA has definitely reached pariah stage.

The NRA could have jumped into meaningful discussions to legislate solutions to this current crisis but being paid by the gun manufacturers they found it much more profitable to continue to stir the pot with gun conspiracies around every corner and buying every politician to vote against meaningful laws.

The NRA is most certainly a huge part of this problem.

[RinconRyder]

Could you tell us the source of that statement?
If a Teacher were to be armed: their SOLE purpose, is to get the students secure, lock the door, and wait for the Law Enforcement Personnel to come get them.
They will announce their presence before entering, and the Teacher should respond: letting them know that there is a firearm in the room with them. They would then be given instructions as to how they should stand down...

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

[RinconRyder]

If we took the Homeland Security budget and constructed a world-class mental health care system that was FREE to anyone who asked for help, we could solve a lot of the problems in this country (and empty the jails) and be MUCH safer than we are now.

Not saying your idea is totally wrong but most mentally ill people either do not recognize they are mentally ill or they are of the type that doesn't commit mass murders and are no public threat. In either event they, most probably, would not voluntarily commit themselves due to the current stigma we put on mental patients.

[r1100rider]

And what then happens to the armed teacher when they hear people being shot in the next room? Do they continue to hunker down?

This is just more NRA BS!

again if the attacker’s didn’t know that they would have the easy pickings of a gun free zone most of these attacks wouldn’t take place in the first place how many guns jumped off the shelf at gun shows and caused mass shootings, now on the another fact the msm isn’t telling you the push for good crime stats has caused the law and school
officiials to not report so that they can get federal money and report low false crime stats if a few of the 20 plus calls on this guy would have been logged instead of ignored he would have never passed back ground check, the fbi visited the bail bondsman who tried to warn and never visited the shooter even though he had 30 plus police visits since 2008 , the argument that the teachers would see swat in the hallway doesn’t hold water you all trust the government so much so the police would have id and pictures of the people who should be there plus look at all the past shootings they are over in minutes it takes a while for police and swat to get in to position the armed people inside would have direct connection with police , the Australia argument isn’t telling you about the increase in the bad guys just kicking the door in because they knew no one inside had protections any more. All you people who want no more guns please put a sign up in your yard so your house gets robbed because they mite meet lead at mine, 90% of the cops I ever talk to make sure that there wifes and daughters carry when they travel alone in bad areas

[RinconRyder]

again if the attacker’s didn’t know that they would have the easy pickings of a gun free zone most of these attacks wouldn’t take place in the first place how many guns jumped off the shelf at gun shows and caused mass shootings, now on the another fact the msm isn’t telling you the push for good crime stats has caused the law and school
officiials to not report so that they can get federal money and report low false crime stats if a few of the 20 plus calls on this guy would have been logged instead of ignored he would have never passed back ground check, the fbi visited the bail bondsman who tried to warn and never visited the shooter even though he had 30 plus police visits since 2008 , the argument that the teachers would see swat in the hallway doesn’t hold water you all trust the government so much so the police would have id and pictures of the people who should be there plus look at all the past shootings they are over in minutes it takes a while for police and swat to get in to position the armed people inside would have direct connection with police , the Australia argument isn’t telling you about the increase in the bad guys just kicking the door in because they knew no one inside had protections any more. All you people who want no more guns please put a sign up in your yard so your house gets robbed because they mite meet lead at mine, 90% of the cops I ever talk to make sure that there wifes and daughters carry when they travel alone in bad areas

Your rant would perhaps be understandable if it weren't one very long sentence.

[UtahPete]

Not saying your idea is totally wrong but most mentally ill people either do not recognize they are mentally ill or they are of the type that doesn't commit mass murders and are no public threat. In either event they, most probably, would not voluntarily commit themselves due to the current stigma we put on mental patients.

You are absolutely correct.

[Slowpoke387]

Would be to stop making celebrities out of the killers. It’s blatently obvious that these morons want fame. And the media feeds it to them on a silver platter. The first thing we all see is a nice clear head shot with the killer’s name plastered all over every news outlet possible.
Keep making them famous and they will keep shooting the place up.
This is not rocket science. Im stunned that there hasnt been more attention paid to asking what the killers actually get out of this.
It’s the infamy, it’s the legend status they think they get in the world of morons. If we stopped plastering them all over the media, you would see a dramatic drop in these events. Id bet the farm on it.

[UtahPete]

What good would an "intelligence" test do? Unless someone is totally dysfunctional how would you determine their suitability for marriage? I have known several couples who are dumb as rocks but very happy together.

And what about a 'means' test? Your wealth can change daily so what is appropriate today may change radically within a six month period. Look at all the people who contract an expensive disease and go bankrupt trying to pay for medical care.

A waiting period? Just run off to Mexico or some other country who doesn't have a waiting period. Too many loopholes.

I was being facetious.

[loisk]

I generally stay well clear of this topic, recognising that it is divisive and emotional, and not always rational - but as Australia has popped up a couple of times, I am chiming in...

Yes we had a gun amnesty and buy back after an idiot went crazy in Tasmania - perhaps ironically at a tourist site of an earlier colonial penal colony. The Prime Minister of the day pushed through the new laws against much opposition, but stood his ground against lobby and interest groups, with the support of the majority of ordinary Australians.

To the poster who said we need guns against people who bash down the doors of our homes - I point out that we are generally not facing bad guys with guns! Yes, it happens, but is not the norm. There are bad guys everywhere, but I am thankful that ours usually don't have guns... and do not want to adopt the American model. I won't argue against your model, but please do not export it.

Re mental health as a cause - hmmm. Easy to say in hindsight, not easy to predict. Perhaps better to look at why our societies in the western world are fractured, divisive and stressful. It's a bit hard to predict which individual will crack.

A look at history may help - Australia began as a penal colony but within a few short years was settled by free pioneers. That said, the British authorities had the guns, and didn't hesitate to use them against Australians promoting different views - Google Eureka Stockade for one example. (Edit - farmers and settlers had rifles too, they weren't and aren't totally banned) Conversely, if I remember American history correctly from my uni days, your vaunted second (?) amendment, the right to bear arms, came about after mad King George was chucked off and was then deemed essential - the fledgling nation did not then have a standing military, and arms held by patriotic (to the new nation) civilians was the only way to prevent invasion by the other European powers hovering around at the time. A sensible, pragmatic solution for the issue of the day. It does seem, to those watching from "outside", to have taken on a life of its own - I wonder if the founding fathers are turning in their graves at the current mindset?

[UtahPete]

Lois, bravo on all points.

[AY4B]

You are a legal adult at 18. Your rights are to be protected by the constitution.

18-20 year olds need to file a lawsuit claiming there 2nd amendment rights are being violated. You have the right to bear arms. You have the right to defend yourself and your loved ones. I will not ever Shop at Dicks and don't really care what they think.