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03-04-2018, 05:59 PM
#276
 Originally Posted by UtahPete
Biased, partisan political opinions masquerading as facts. BTW, this snowflake doesn't melt or run from a good argument. However, this thread has run its course.
Originally Posted by RinconRyder
I could respond to your list but it is like arguing with a pig. I'd get all dirty and it would not change your mind. So go live in your fantasy world and believe what you want.
While I understand that you could not dispute those 100% accurate facts, I applaud your efforts in trying. Although I'm not experienced in getting owned and shut down in a debate, I'm sure it can't feel good and might be difficult to sleep tonight. For that, I'm sorry. 
BTW.. Didn't your Mama teach you that you will never win an argument with a women ? Your kind is just not smart enough. Now go sleep on the couch. 
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03-04-2018, 06:38 PM
#277
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03-04-2018, 06:50 PM
#278
Very Active Member
It seems that one of the tenets that the NRA and others are supporting now is "mental health".
That plays a role in some of the carnage that occurs with guns. Other times, it is often times a "heat of the moment" occurrence, where someone reaches a critical point and reacts blindly, without any rational, logical thought. If there was not easy, almost instantaneous access to a weapon, rational thought has a chance to reassert itself and an ensuing tragedy has a chance to be averted.
But how do we know it a person is susceptible to such an irrational incedent? That is where some of the mental health that the NRA is now touting comes into play.
When I was working as a contractor at nuclear power plants, I had to take a psychological test every five years as part of the process to gain unrestricted access to nuclear plants. This test was around 400 questions and was/is used to gauge the trustworthiness and stability of employees. I was also fingerprinted and had a background investigation done that included interviews with actual people who had first hand knowledge of you. This also occurred randomly as well as an in-depth re-investigation at certain intervals.
Perhaps something along these lines should be instituted as part of background checks for gun ownership. The cost of this could be partially offset by a fee or an extra tax on gun sales. I don't think that this would be too onerous as a condition of responsible gun ownership.
As with anything, it is not foolproof but it is a start. It is something that should be considered as part of a comprehensive plan to reduce gun violence.
After all, if you want to own a gun that is capable of causing injuries far exceeding the normal results of gun wounds, you should be held to a high degree of responsibility to do so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/h...T.nav=top-news
T
On the road again...........and forever young!
2013 RT-S SE 5
Yesterday is a cancelled check.
Tomorrow is a promissory note.
Today is cash.......spend it wisely.
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03-04-2018, 07:01 PM
#279
Originally Posted by Holly
Don't let them get to you when they throw out insults, that just means they have no argument. They can't help it. It could a defect from birth or bad parenting when they were a child. I'm not sure? They base everything on feelings instead of facts and have taught these young kids to do the same.
I'll throw out a few facts for them and watch how they curl up in a fetal position and melt like snowflakes on a warm spring day.
Most of these killings are from people that are aligned with one political party.
9 out of 10 ghettos in the USA are run by one political party.
100% of mayors that inform illegals that Ice is coming are from one political party.
Cities that are now promoting voter fraud are from one political party. (Chicago's new id for illegals)
California is voted dead last on a recent quality of life survey and is run by one political party.
The highest tax states are run by one political party.
Sanctuary cities that protect illegals over citizens are all run by one political party.
Cities with the highest crime rates are all run by one political party.
Cities with the highest gun violence are all run by one political party.
GEEZ...... I wonder what could be our country's problem ?
Our country's problem? The #1 problem is stereotyping and the #2 problem is making up ridiculous "facts" to suit your politics. Really? Murderers are aligned with one political party? And when did ghettos become political subdivisions? Oh, and California "voted" dead last in a quality of life study? Who voted? Mississippi? Have you ever BEEN to California??? OMG! Did you ever wonder why houses cost so much there? It's called "supply and demand." Limited supply, high demand. Now why would that be? I mean, who would want to live where the quality of life is dead last, huh? I guess normal economics don't apply to California, maybe that's why it's the #1 state in the Union in terms of economics, because it sucks so much. Sheesh.
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03-04-2018, 07:07 PM
#280
Originally Posted by johnsimion
Our country's problem? The #1 problem is stereotyping and the #2 problem is making up ridiculous "facts" to suit your politics. Really? Murderers are aligned with one political party? And when did ghettos become political subdivisions? Oh, and California "voted" dead last in a quality of life study? Who voted? Mississippi? Have you ever BEEN to California??? OMG! Did you ever wonder why houses cost so much there? It's called "supply and demand." Limited supply, high demand. Now why would that be? I mean, who would want to live where the quality of life is dead last, huh? I guess normal economics don't apply to California, maybe that's why it's the #1 state in the Union in terms of economics, because it sucks so much. Sheesh.
Careful John. The pig is smiling ... sort of a vacuous smile but enjoying it nonetheless
2014 RTL Platinum
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03-04-2018, 07:08 PM
#281
Originally Posted by johnsimion
Our country's problem? The #1 problem is stereotyping and the #2 problem is making up ridiculous "facts" to suit your politics. Really?
No more ridiculous than that Spiderwoman outfit, John.
2014 RTL Platinum
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03-04-2018, 07:08 PM
#282
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03-04-2018, 07:08 PM
#283
Very Active Member
Hi John,
Re: ridiculous "facts" to suit your politics.
Those facts are such pesky buggers. I mean, who can you really believe?
Jerry Baumchen
Last edited by JerryB; 03-04-2018 at 11:10 PM.
'I'll never forget what's her name.'
'Things are more like they are now than they ever have been before.' Dwight Eisenhower
2008 GS SE-5
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03-04-2018, 07:15 PM
#284
Originally Posted by BoilerAnimal
It seems that one of the tenets that the NRA and others are supporting now is "mental health".
That plays a role in some of the carnage that occurs with guns. Other times, it is often times a "heat of the moment" occurrence, where someone reaches a critical point and reacts blindly, without any rational, logical thought. If there was not easy, almost instantaneous access to a weapon, rational thought has a chance to reassert itself and an ensuing tragedy has a chance to be averted.
But how do we know it a person is susceptible to such an irrational incedent? That is where some of the mental health that the NRA is now touting comes into play.
When I was working as a contractor at nuclear power plants, I had to take a psychological test every five years as part of the process to gain unrestricted access to nuclear plants. This test was around 400 questions and was/is used to gauge the trustworthiness and stability of employees. I was also fingerprinted and had a background investigation done that included interviews with actual people who had first hand knowledge of you. This also occurred randomly as well as an in-depth re-investigation at certain intervals.
Perhaps something along these lines should be instituted as part of background checks for gun ownership. The cost of this could be partially offset by a fee or an extra tax on gun sales. I don't think that this would be too onerous as a condition of responsible gun ownership.
As with anything, it is not foolproof but it is a start. It is something that should be considered as part of a comprehensive plan to reduce gun violence.
After all, if you want to own a gun that is capable of causing injuries far exceeding the normal results of gun wounds, you should be held to a high degree of responsibility to do so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/h...T.nav=top-news
T
The NRA is touting the mental health issue because; a) it shifts the responsibility away from them to yet another unaccountable bogeyman, b) they will never be made to pay for the societal cost of their obstinance or any mental health program that gets adopted anyway and c) they know their affected members will continue to pay $35 a year even when they have been 'sold out' as sacrificial lambs.
2014 RTL Platinum
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03-04-2018, 07:16 PM
#285
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03-04-2018, 07:23 PM
#286
Originally Posted by johnsimion
Our country's problem? The #1 problem is stereotyping and the #2 problem is making up ridiculous "facts" to suit your politics. Really? Murderers are aligned with one political party? And when did ghettos become political subdivisions? Oh, and California "voted" dead last in a quality of life study? Who voted? Mississippi? Have you ever BEEN to California??? OMG! Did you ever wonder why houses cost so much there? It's called "supply and demand." Limited supply, high demand. Now why would that be? I mean, who would want to live where the quality of life is dead last, huh? I guess normal economics don't apply to California, maybe that's why it's the #1 state in the Union in terms of economics, because it sucks so much. Sheesh.
Can't dispute the 100% accurate facts John. Unfortunately I'm guessing you might need a Kleenex ready before you read this ?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...uality-of-life
BTW. California isn't even in the top three for economics. Don't worry, this education I'm giving you today is free.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...nkings/economy
Last edited by Holly; 03-04-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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03-04-2018, 07:38 PM
#287
Last edited by UtahPete; 03-04-2018 at 08:04 PM.
2014 RTL Platinum
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03-04-2018, 08:11 PM
#288
If you could read my mind...
...It would remind you of a very strange comic book!
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03-04-2018, 09:26 PM
#289
Originally Posted by Holly
Don't let them get to you when they throw out insults, that just means they have no argument. They can't help it. It could a defect from birth or bad parenting when they were a child. I'm not sure? They base everything on feelings instead of facts and have taught these young kids to do the same.
I'll throw out a few facts for them and watch how they curl up in a fetal position and melt like snowflakes on a warm spring day.
Most of these killings are from people that are aligned with one political party.
9 out of 10 ghettos in the USA are run by one political party.
100% of mayors that inform illegals that Ice is coming are from one political party.
Cities that are now promoting voter fraud are from one political party. (Chicago's new id for illegals)
California is voted dead last on a recent quality of life survey and is run by one political party.
The highest tax states are run by one political party.
Sanctuary cities that protect illegals over citizens are all run by one political party.
Cities with the highest crime rates are all run by one political party.
Cities with the highest gun violence are all run by one political party.
GEEZ...... I wonder what could be our country's problem ?
Ew ew ew - wow - you've solved the problem.
It is "one political party" that's to blame for all ills ...
Easy!
Get rid of that party, have a dictatorship (you can camouflage it as a democracy if you like), have your leader for life - oh he's already thought of this, label anybody who disagrees with anything with a label - any label will do, minimise any rational debate on any issue, bombard the populace with so much information that nobody can tell the wood from the trees, encourage name-calling and simplistic use of pseudo facts, and label any alternative views as Fake Facts (a great oxymoron - no, I'm not calling you names...), have your leaders generally stay insular with a nation-centric view of the world and continue to take this view to international actions, continue to deal with societal strain, poverty and inequitable division of scarce resources from emotional rather than rational debate, and above all don't tell the populace that they live in a capitalocracy, not a democracy... There ya go... Release the hounds...
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03-04-2018, 09:52 PM
#290
Originally Posted by Holly
BTW.. Didn't your Mama teach you that you will never win an argument with a women ? Your kind is just not smart enough.
I live with three women and have never spent a night on my couch.
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03-04-2018, 09:54 PM
#291
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
If you could read my mind...
If I could read your mind......it would bore me to sleep.
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03-04-2018, 10:17 PM
#292
Very Active Member
Do you think I have a reading comprehension problem? The point of the article was to point out the extreme severity of damage that is inflicted by high powered weapons!
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
I take it that you have no idea in Hell what that means.
I do!
The pictures used in the NY Times article are comparing a rifle wound, to a wound caused by a handgun!  Left, an X-ray of a leg showing a bullet wound delivered by an assault rifle used in combat. Right, an X-ray of a leg that sustained a bullet wound from a low-energy bullet, inflicted by a weapon like a handgun in Philadelphia.Creditvia Dr. Jeremy W. Cannon This is the caption under the first picture.
Forget about the differences in muzzle energy, or even terminal ballistics: it's the nature of the projectile, that matters the most.
Military rounds are normally Full metal jacket. This is done for a bunch of reasons:
1. less damage to the rounds during rough transport.
2. better penetration capability
3. better ability to defeat body armor
4. less lethality
 What did I just say??
That's right: LESS lethality!
It's better to wound your enemy; than it is to kill them. It requires more manpower to move a wounded soldier; than it does to drag out a body.
Full metal jacket bullets will usually just pass right through a target: leaving a caliber-sized hole (Assuming that it only passes through soft tissue.
Modern expanding sporting rounds will "mushroom" to approximately double their unfired diameter, and expend all of their terminal energy into the target.
Why?
Because as a hunter: you want the game animal down... NOW!! A quick and humane kill requires far more damage from the projectile.
Hollow-point rounds are specifically forbidden in military conflicts: they cause too much damage.
From the article: Civilian owners of military-style weapons can also buy soft-nosed or hollow-point ammunition, often used for hunting, that lacks a full metal jacket and can expand and fragment on impact. Such bullets, which can cause wider wound channels, are proscribed in most military use.
In a home defense situation: you would want even LESS penetration. They make frangible rounds like "Mag-Safes"; that are specifically designed to break apart inside the target. It reduces the chances of shooting through a wall, and injuring someone in another room.
It's all about having the right round for the right job! 
A quote from the article by
Dr. Martin Schreiber, Oregon Health & Science University.
He was an Army reservist who served in Iraq in 2005 and in Afghanistan in 2010 and 2014.
What makes injuries from these rifles so deadly, he said, is that the bullets travel so fast. Those from an M16 or AR-15 can depart the muzzle at a velocity of more than 3,000 feet per second, while bullets from many common handguns move at less than half or a third that speed. The result: “The energy imparted to a human body by a high velocity weapon is exponentially greater” than that from a handgun.
“You will see multiple organs shattered. The exit wounds can be a foot wide.”
“I’ve seen people with entire quadrants of their abdomens destroyed.”
Dr. Jeffrey Kerby, the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
He was formerly an Air Force surgeon.
Dr. Kerby will never forget the first victim of a high velocity bullet wound he treated when he was serving in the Southern Philippines 16 years ago. The soldier had been shot in the outer thigh. His first thought was that the wound did not look so bad. There was just a tiny hole where the bullet went in. Then he looked where the bullet had exited. The man’s inner thigh, he said, “was completely blown out.”
Later he came to expect the telltale pattern. “You will typically see a small penetrating wound. Then you roll the patient over and you see a huge exit wound.”
The high energy bullet creates a blast wave around the bullet. And the yaw can contribute to the larger exit wound. Striking bone can also cause bone fragments that radiate outward, cutting tissue in each fragment’s path.
“Then the bullet starts tumbling, causing more and more destruction.” Even a bullet that misses bone can result in surprising damage; as the blast wave travels through the body, it pushes tissues and organs aside in a temporary cavity larger than the bullet itself. They bounce back once the bullet passes. Organs are damaged, blood vessels rip and many victims bleed to death before they reach a hospital. Those who survive long enough are whisked to operating rooms, but often the injuries cannot be repaired.
“If they are shot in the torso, there often is not a whole lot we can do,” he said.
With a handgun, the bullets mostly damage tissues and organs in their direct path. Eventually, the bullets may be slowed and stopped by the body. Emergency surgery often can save handgun victims.
The only high powered rifle I ever owned was a bolt action .243 Winchester Model 670. I used it to shoot coyotes and I usually used 100 grain bullets and sometimes 80 grain bullets. It had a very flat trajectory, especially with the 80 grain bullets. Either bullet would do an unbelievable number on a coyote. I never felt the need to have a semi-auto gun for hunting. One thing that a bolt action will do is to make you keenly aware of getting your best shot. If you missed, it wasn't often you got a second chance nearly as good as the first. To me, that is where the "sport" comes in for hunting. Hunters now have camo that is nearly perfect, spotting scopes, binoculars and range finders that further tip the scales in the hunters advantage. The hunters advantage grows greater and greater as technology advances. That also translates to the murderers advantage as well.
Last edited by BoilerAnimal; 03-05-2018 at 12:08 AM.
On the road again...........and forever young!
2013 RT-S SE 5
Yesterday is a cancelled check.
Tomorrow is a promissory note.
Today is cash.......spend it wisely.
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03-04-2018, 10:22 PM
#293
Originally Posted by Holly
Well, my, my, aren't we arrogant. School me? Maybe you should read your own stuff before you start teaching. You said they were "VOTED" as last in quality of life. UNTRUE. One might even say that was a LIE. They were not "voted" at all. They were "selected" by a panel of USN&WR editors. That means the SUBJECTIVE opinion of a handful of people. BFD. Their opinion and fifty cents won't buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, honey. Actual home prices and population count are real, objective numbers and they show where people choose to live. Here's a hint, if people don't want to live somewhere, they don't drive the prices of houses sky-high, now do they? What do you say about real numbers, cupcake?
Also, California was NOT "voted" as #4 in economics, either, again it was selected by USN&WR editors and that rating was based on a number of factors. Put all those factors together and the actual rank of California Gross Domestic Product is #1. Fifth largest economy IN THE WORLD, ranking just ahead of the entire country of France. That's not some editor putting together some BS rankings. That's a real statistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar..._GDP_(nominal)
Like I said, you twist "facts" around to suit your politics. And you know what, I'm not from California, I don't live there, never have lived there, but I find it to be a pretty darned nice place - just too darned expensive for me to live there, you know, with all those people competing to buy houses in the worst state in America, lol.
Last edited by johnsimion; 03-04-2018 at 10:26 PM.
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03-04-2018, 10:36 PM
#294
Very Active Member
By the way Bob, instead of attacking an article (and me) that was describing the damage inflicted by high powered rifles versus hand guns, what do you say to some sort of psychological testing and beefed up background checks as a requirement of gun ownership?
On the road again...........and forever young!
2013 RT-S SE 5
Yesterday is a cancelled check.
Tomorrow is a promissory note.
Today is cash.......spend it wisely.
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03-04-2018, 11:15 PM
#295
Very Active Member
Hi John,
Re: you twist "facts" around to suit your politics.
I figured that out with her first post.
Jerry Baumchen
'I'll never forget what's her name.'
'Things are more like they are now than they ever have been before.' Dwight Eisenhower
2008 GS SE-5
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03-04-2018, 11:21 PM
#296
Active Member
My Ride --->>> 2013 ST-S SE5 <<---
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03-04-2018, 11:56 PM
#297
Originally Posted by RinconRyder
Bear in mind that it was the Republican controlled Congress who resisted every attempt at writing a good final product. Don't blame ***** for settling for what he could get. ACA, if a disaster, is a Republican disaster.
even though not 1 single republican voted for the ACA
2 happy happy spyders 
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03-05-2018, 12:51 AM
#298
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
In the meantime: my premiums have more than doubled in just five years.
Over $25,000 per year now...
Is that for yourself only, or you and wife?
In either case it's steep, steeper than what it should be, IMO.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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03-05-2018, 07:41 AM
#299
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03-05-2018, 08:32 AM
#300
Very Active Member
All this haranguing about high powered, fast shootin' guns has me SCARED! So, I'm gonna do what I can to help slow things down. I'm gonna build another one of these for another grandson's 16th birthday........
toys for big boys.jpg
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I'd like proof you're actually married and your wife doesn't live in an underground bunker somewhere....
