ar-15

[RinconRyder]

Dear sir,
"I haven't yet heard anyone suggest a total ban on all guns....especially those designed for self protection. So that is a false argument."

I have seen videos of at least 2 recent, high ranking politicians promoting the banning of all fire arms. Soros stays off camera but has poured millions of dollars into firearms confiscations scams. Of course some here would say the videos of clinton and cuomo et al. are fakes---- but they are not.

I am absolutely positive you can find someone, somewhere that advocates a total gun ban but I was referring to the major players in this argument and not the radical left or right players wanting media time. And, if you haven't yet noticed, Clinton (both) are no longer part of the national political effort.


"And one more argument I heard again this morning from a blowhard on a talk show. You claim to need guns so you can protect yourself from our government? You honestly think a dozen gun nuts with AR's could overcome even a local sheriff's office if they meant you harm? If so, you are delusional. "

During World War 11 a well known Japanese general said they would never attack the US main land with a ground force because there was a rifle behind every tree ( not an exact quote). If soon to be concentration camp victims shot ONE German trooper, the Holocaust would not have happened, but that didn't didn't happen because hitler disarmed the populace years before. The socialist politicians know this and try to take our firearms one type at a time. It's the "slippery slope that most folks can't see.

Your 'Japanese general' quote was attributed to Yamamoto but it is false - he never said it. And Hitler's "final solution" happened because the armed forces, the strongest in the world at that time, enforced it and it had the backing of the general civilian population. The same thing would happen again today should an army turn on its civilian population. If you think a bunch of armed civilians can successfully oppose a formal armed force you are sadly mistaken. Look around at the despots in the Middle East and Africa for plenty of examples.

" Very few people it seems have this kind of experience."

I do ( both parents served in the military, me to) and so do many of my friends and acquaintances. Even some of my left leaning friends are well armed and trained.

This country has a Second Amendment for a good reason.

We are not living in the 18th Century nor are we being invaded by a foreign army. The Second Amendment does not give civilians the right to ALL weapons - and should not.



Lew L

OK.----- I'll apologize for my ranting now----- it's snowing and 26*F outside now and I want to ryde my !!!!!

There is nothing wrong with a good argument but it is best to have your facts straight first.

[kep-up]

This is the kind of unnecessary and inflammatory rhetoric from the NRA that makes reasonable discussion almost impossible;

http://theweek.com/speedreads/756858...e-good-ratings

Did you listen to her entire speech?

Unnecessary and inflammatory? Not to me. I think it's about time someone, anyone, calls out the media for promoting an agenda. Their job is to REPORT the news, not spin it toward their personal beliefs.

I think Dana's speech was well done, not nasty, simply direct. Would only that others be able to do as well as she in making their point, and with facts, rather than innuendo.

[RinconRyder]

Well said Pete.

If I may add that many of the murders have been on or recently quit SSRI drugs causing even more mental instability and loss of any reality--- often turning them into murdering psychopaths.

Let the flaming begin---------


Lew L

Before (mis)stating any more opinions disguised as facts let's see some published numbers from reputable organizations that support your theories. I specifically object to the word 'many' in your post as it isn't backed up by reality.

[RinconRyder]

Get rid of guns, there will be truck bombs, or drones carrying IEDs.

If I want to find a way to kill or injure a lot of people I could find a way. I don't need a fast-shooting long gun - in fact, that might be the worst choice of all.

But that isn't the point. The point is virtually every mass killing happening in the past decade or two (with two notable exceptions) have been carried out by people with automatic or semi-automatic type weapons. That is the main threat and that has an easy answer and that is what we should be talking about.

[UtahPete]

In answer to the question of enforcing laws requiring guns to be securely locked up. If your gun is stolen and it wasn’t properly secured you would then be faced with the possibility of charges stemming from the theft due to your lack of exercising your responsibility as a firearm owner.

Have you seen one instance of the parents of these young murderers being held to account? I haven't.

[RinconRyder]

Hi Pete,

In reality I believe the "essential national conversation" is controled by the liberal media not the NRA. When was the last time you saw a ranking member of the NRA on national TV or radio------ compared to the huge deluge of "gun control " talk. And yes, "they" en-essence want " gun bans.

I absolute agree that this country needs to make changes. President Trump quickly proposed changes and I hope they come into play. Age limits, better communications and actions by federal and local authorities, ect.

Did you know that the NRA supports firearms safety with many classes and gun lock giveaways. My last firearm purchase came with one.

It is evident you are brain washed by the radical right. Regardless of what you think not all the media is liberal (or appears to be to tin hat viewers).

President Trump has not proposed any workable solutions. Arming our school teachers is not the answer even if they would agree to do so. There are so many holes in that 'solution' it does not even deserve a place at the table. Just ask your local first responder who has to run into an armed situation what their opinion is and you will get an earful of disagreement.

Age limits for the purchase of firearms and ammunition is helpful but, again, not a solution.

No idea what "better communications by federal and local authorities" means but sounds like more static to me. What should have happened in the Florida shooting is that the many warnings sent up by half a dozen different people should have been received and treated as urgent. Authorities need to take threats seriously and if someone makes a serious statement as did Cruz put him away until the background reason can be recognized and treated. Even the high school recognized the threat but did not take appropriate action. That has to change.

[RinconRyder]

That's just not true at all...
The NRA is all about responsible firearms ownership. They freely recognize that many people shouldn't own firearms at all.
They want to protect the rights of Law-Abiding owners.

And they haven't done, nor do they promote, any significant efforts to address the current situation. They are and have been strictly defensive.

[RinconRyder]

That's why they use the phrase "Law-abiding".

Everyone is "law-abiding" until they flip their lid and murder masses of innocent people.

A ten year old is "law abiding" but you don't hand him a hand grenade for self defense.

[UtahPete]

I have to chime in with my 2 cents. My Misses had The View on this morning and they of course were discussing gun control. I said to her that they should have better controls on kitchen utensils because of people getting fat from misuse!

JMHO, gun control is only going to fix a small part of the problem. People are the much larger part of the problem.

Repercussions from using a gun to hurt someone could probably be changed so these problem people think twice before doing something.

People who are mentally unbalanced by definition are not going to 'think things through' in the way you and I would.

[RinconRyder]

It was in 1993 when the NRA tried to pass legislation on stricter background checks for felons and mental defective individuals and if a felon applied to purchase a gun, he was charged with another felony and prosecuted. Mac

I call BS! I could find no record of the NRA doing anything of the sort. And, the NRA does not "pass legislation" anyway. They usually lobby against any new laws relating to any form of gun control.

But here is what the ATF said about the whole background check thing: "ATF has said that nearly half of illegally trafficked firearms originate with "straw purchasers"—people who pass background checks to buy firearms for criminals." So it is crystal clear that strengthening background checks will also not solve the problem (although it is a good idea). We need to track gun ownership as we do motor vehicles. Law-abiding gun owners should not have any issues with that approach.

[RinconRyder]

Hi Pete,

A quality gun safe could solve many problems.

And yet gun owners will tell you that putting firearms in a safe makes them unavailable for their intended use: self protection.

[UtahPete]

I call BS! I could find no record of the NRA doing anything of the sort. And, the NRA does not "pass legislation" anyway. They usually lobby against any new laws relating to any form of gun control.

But here is what the ATF said about the whole background check thing: "ATF has said that nearly half of illegally trafficked firearms originate with "straw purchasers"—people who pass background checks to buy firearms for criminals." So it is crystal clear that strengthening background checks will also not solve the problem (although it is a good idea). We need to track gun ownership as we do motor vehicles. Law-abiding gun owners should not have any issues with that approach.

totally. THAT is what MOST citizens want. But the NRA always turns this into an accusation of the democrats wanting to take everyone's guns away.

I don't care what the NRA has done in terms of gun safety classes for responsible gun owners. That's just a cover for their socially irresponsible propaganda campaign of the last 30 years.

[RinconRyder]

Background checks are done at these shows also...

....along with "straw purchasers" which makes the background check useless.

[RinconRyder]

A federal law about irresponsible gun owners is a slippery slope to charging a manufacturer' with murder or manslaughter if a firearm is stolen from me and used in a homicide. Like charging GMC, Ford,or Chrysler for murder if a drunk kills someone with their truck.

Just as with other subjects a law has to be written and passed to define what constitutes irresponsible gun ownership.

Same thing as giving your 17 year old the keys to your SUV and he runs off and kills his four passengers. If he steals your car it is a different story but if you know he will take your car for a joyride and you don't take reasonable steps to prevent it you are held responsible.

Enforcement is always an issue but at least you have the tools to prosecute someone if they don't abide the law. Without the law there is no recourse.

[RinconRyder]

Repercussions from using a gun to hurt someone could probably be changed so these problem people think twice before doing something.

One of my earliest suggestions was to add prison time to anyone using a gun in the commission of a crime. I really doubt it would deter most criminals as they don't have critical thinking skills to begin with but it might keep these idiots off the streets for a longer period of time.

[UtahPete]

And yet gun owners will tell you that putting firearms in a safe makes them unavailable for their intended use: self protection.

Yep, there is that. The NRA likes to promote 'solutions' that don't solve anything but make them look good in the public eye and give their adherents comeback responses to those advocating for some kind of reasonable gun control, such as a registry. Oh, and the NRA's comeback response to a registry is that it's just a subterfuge for identifying gun owners so it will be easier to take their guns away away sometime in an apocalyptic future.

I DON'T CARE WHAT THE NRA TELLS YOU, THERE IS NO EFFORT BY THE MAINSTREAM AVERAGE AMERICAN TO TAKE YOUR GUNS AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We just want to see access to guns controlled similarly to vehicles. Licensing of the owner and registry of the guns. Why isn't that conversation allowed to take place? Why is it so threatening to the NRA? Why do they treat everyone who would like to discuss alternatives to the status quo as pariahs?

[RinconRyder]

Unnecessary and inflammatory? Not to me. I think it's about time someone, anyone, calls out the media for promoting an agenda. Their job is to REPORT the news, not spin it toward their personal beliefs.

Bear in mind that there is a significant difference between journalists and commentators. People today tend to think every talking head on CNN or Fox News is a journalist when, in fact, that is far from the truth.

News people do report the news. Commentators are free to add......(wait for it)......commentary which is NOT necessarily news. You have to be smart enough these days to filter out the opinions from fact reporting. Too many times this does not happen.

[Bob Denman]

Just to stir the pot a bit more:


How do we all feel about the death penalty??????????

As there are literally thousands " gun laws" on the books now------- how about better enforcement of them.

about 22,000 or so... And we DO need to "cull the herd" a bit!

Dredging up old NRA talking points does not add substance to the conversation.

Nor does trying to lie about what is going on right now...
You're NOT an honest person at all: you've come into this conversation with the sole intent of trying to start a flaming war...
We won't stoop to your asinine level: and we will put you on notice that we're not playing your game.

Troll.jpg

[Trickie Dick]

about 22,000 or so... And we DO need to "cull the herd" a bit!



Nor does trying to lie about what is going on right now...
You're NOT an honest person at all: you've come into this conversation with the sole intent of trying to start a flaming war...
We won't stoop to your asinine level: and we will put you on notice that we're not playing your game.

Troll.jpg

So says the SpyderLovers nra mouthpiece. He has as much right to his opinion as anyone else......or do you not believe in the 1st. Amendment.

[UtahPete]

Nor does trying to lie about what is going on right now...
You're NOT an honest person at all: you've come into this conversation with the sole intent of trying to start a flaming war...
We won't stoop to your asinine level: and we will put you on notice that we're not playing your game.

Whoaa Bob. Aren't you jumping to conclusions here? And, denigrating the poster's motives and opinions? Is that necessary? I'm disappointed in this post quite frankly; I hold you in high regard most of the time because even though I may not agree with you I still respect the way you diplomatically state your case. I hope you will reconsider your words.

[Saluda]

[QUOTE=Trickie Dick;1338336]So says the SpyderLovers nra mouthpiece.

I'd consider that a compliment.

[Mad Mac]

I call BS! I could find no record of the NRA doing anything of the sort. And, the NRA does not "pass legislation" anyway. They usually lobby against any new laws relating to any form of gun control.

But here is what the ATF said about the whole background check thing: "ATF has said that nearly half of illegally trafficked firearms originate with "straw purchasers"—people who pass background checks to buy firearms for criminals." So it is crystal clear that strengthening background checks will also not solve the problem (although it is a good idea). We need to track gun ownership as we do motor vehicles. Law-abiding gun owners should not have any issues with that approach.

Obviously you are a hard left thinker and that is why this country is as f%#@*^ as it is, probably because you raised your kids under the "time out" rule and are one of those "touchy, feely, rock lick'n, lizard kiss'n, tree hug'n, type of people I love to hate. Instead of giving your kids a good whack on the butt and sending them to their room and making them think about what they did wrong. The problem with today's society, is "PARENTS"! Mac

[UtahPete]

Obviously you are a hard left thinker and that is why this country is as f%#@*^ as it is, probably because you raised your kids under the "time out" rule and are one of those "touchy, feely, rock lick'n, lizard kiss'n, tree hug'n, type of people I love to hate. Instead of giving your kids a good whack on the butt and sending them to their room and making them think about what they did wrong. The problem with today's society, is "PARENTS"! Mac

There is nothing 'obviously hard left' about his thinking that I can see. Why do you feel justified in casting aspersions on someone who disagrees with your world view? Why is 'hatred' even part of this conversation?

[DGoebel]

It's been many pages of comments on the AR-15, but today's announcement by the Broward County Sheriff's office raised several failures in this particular instance that might have prevented THIS shooting whether an AR was used or not. Miami Herald article excerpt "And long before Cruz embarked on the worst school shooting in Florida history, Broward Sheriff’s deputies had multiple warnings that the 19-year-old was a potential school shooter, according to records released Thursday .In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on it. That came just weeks after a relative called asking BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” – intelligence forwarded to the campus deputy, with no apparent result."
So three reports over two years, and no response... maybe there's other issues that we should be discussing as thoroughly as well.
Just saying....

Law abiding semi automatic gun owner until they pry my cold dead fingers off.

[UtahPete]

It's been many pages of comments on the AR-15, but today's announcement by the Broward County Sheriff's office raised several failures in this particular instance that might have prevented THIS shooting whether an AR was used or not. Miami Herald article excerpt "And long before Cruz embarked on the worst school shooting in Florida history, Broward Sheriff’s deputies had multiple warnings that the 19-year-old was a potential school shooter, according to records released Thursday .In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making” but deputies did not write up a report on it. That came just weeks after a relative called asking BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” – intelligence forwarded to the campus deputy, with no apparent result." So three reports over two years, and no response... maybe there's other issues that we should be discussing as thoroughly as well. Just saying.... Law abiding semi automatic gun owner until they pry my cold dead fingers off.

Right. And now they are saying the armed deputy assigned to the school never entered the school while the shooting was going on. He resigned, big deal.

Can we at least admit that whatever laws and systems we have in place are not working to protect innocents from deranged people with guns? Only then can we begin looking into why they did not work and what needs to be changed in order to bring this national horror under control?