ar-15

[RinconRyder]

Would you like to wake up at 4:30 am, and hike 7 miles back into the woods (over a mountain: of course!); to sit for hours in sub-freezing temperatures?
And when "Mr. Big" comes into view: try and control the shivering, your breathing, pick out the best spot for a clean shot, raise the rifle to your shoulder, hold it there for... forever... and THEN exercise proper trigger control, pick the right spot on the animal, and make the shot?
That's just the start of the fun!
Now: track it down (If it didn't drop on the spot: they rarely do!), tag it, field-dress it, hook a rope to itm, and start that 7 mile walk home?

I didn't think so...

Nothing you have said is a successful argument for defining killing as a sport. If you enjoy this type of activity then it is your choice. You could have gone to the market and picked out a nice cut of meat and "had fun" grilling it - which would have undoubtedly been much cheaper and not put you at risk of being shot by another hunter who just polished off a bottle of Jack.

We don't live in an 1850's world where we have to hunt wild game to survive.

[UtahPete]

I am not sure that I mentioned banning anything. I agree that evil is evil whether there are guns or not. I just know that something has got to change before these acts reach all of our home towns. It is a time for everybody to seriously open their minds to making changes. What we need is open dialogue, not the same old tired arguments. This is what I admire about what these kids are doing. They are forcing dialogue. So let's put partisanship behind us and open our minds to what each side has to say, that is how change happens! Please let's make a change, for the sake of our children, and our children's children!

Well said. And, I would add, let's scientifically study the problem. The CDC has been prevented by Congress from doing so, from what I understand. It's a national epidemic and should be treated as such. We have lost more innocents (and police) from this scourge (weapons in the hands of temporarily deranged people) than we ever have from terrorists; let's throw some resources at solving it.

[RinconRyder]

Since there has been a lot of speeches about "Banning the AR-15": let me add something to consider...

Even if you ban ALL firearms: you have done nothing to get rid of the evil intentions, that drive these acts...

That wasn't the discussion.

In the "old days" if two people wanted to resolve their differences they usually opted for fisticuffs. A good beating would usually settle the matter and would not carry over to an armed assault on innocent civilians.

[Machinegunner]

I enjoy deer hunting. We practically live on venison. I get ready for the season. I shoot the deer. I butcher it and freeze it. Venison is one of the best tasting and fat free healthy meats to eat. That is why I hunt. Almost took my AR-15, but decided to use an old sporterized Russian bolt action military rifle. That was Russia's assault rifle for almost 100 years.

[Bob Denman]

That wasn't the discussion.

In the "old days" if two people wanted to resolve their differences they usually opted for fisticuffs. A good beating would usually settle the matter and would not carry over to an armed assault on innocent civilians.

Where have YOU been hiding?
The lame-stream media has been working up a lather about banning the AR...
Lots of interviews accusing the NRA of unspeakable horrors... lots of angry children who want to ban assault weapons (even though they have NO idea what that it!)... lots of emotions... but very few facts!

And what happened in the past has nothing to do with the evils of our time.
(But that's for another thread...)

[Lew L]

I haven't yet heard anyone suggest a total ban on all guns....especially those designed for self protection. So that is a false argument.

And, your "mental" evaluation and hospitalization will not work. If you look through the catalog of mass shootings you will see many instances of perps who suddenly flipped out with no prior events that would indicate mental illness. Secondly, you cannot confine someone for their thoughts of what they might do in the future. That would go against our entire justice system. Thirdly, putting armed security forces in every public place to guard against the occasional nut job with an assault weapon would be (1) excessively expensive and (2) virtually impossible. This type of security only works with small areas and places with limited access/egress. It won't work in an open mall where a dozen stores are open to the parking lots.

You think it is "nut jobs" that shoot up the joint for notoriety? Possible in some cases I guess but sweeping it under the rug would be a huge disservice to virtually everyone but the shooter. We need to understand why they do it and take steps to mitigate those causes. Failing that we need to remove the weapons they use. Please explain to me why treating guns like motor vehicles is not a good idea - at least as a first step.

And one more argument I heard again this morning from a blowhard on a talk show. You claim to need guns so you can protect yourself from our government? You honestly think a dozen gun nuts with AR's could overcome even a local sheriff's office if they meant you harm? If so, you are delusional.

In the meantime you should talk with my neighbor. He was a nice family guy who had kids and kept a gun "for protection". He thought he was protecting his family one night when he heard a noise. He shot several times.....and killed his teenage son who was coming in late.

And before you label me as a wacko left winger let me tell you I grew up in the 50's and had an Army sergeant for a father. He taught me and my two younger sisters about guns and we frequently went out target shooting as kids. He also taught us safety and how to clean and care for the weapons and most important of all, when to use them and when they are not appropriate. Very few people it seems have this kind of experience.

Dear sir,
"I haven't yet heard anyone suggest a total ban on all guns....especially those designed for self protection. So that is a false argument."

I have seen videos of at least 2 recent, high ranking politicians promoting the banning of all fire arms. Soros stays off camera but has poured millions of dollars into firearms confiscations scams. Of course some here would say the videos of clinton and cuomo et al. are fakes---- but they are not.


"And one more argument I heard again this morning from a blowhard on a talk show. You claim to need guns so you can protect yourself from our government? You honestly think a dozen gun nuts with AR's could overcome even a local sheriff's office if they meant you harm? If so, you are delusional. "

During World War 11 a well known Japanese general said they would never attack the US main land with a ground force because there was a rifle behind every tree ( not an exact quote). If soon to be concentration camp victims shot ONE German trooper, the Holocaust would not have happened, but that didn't didn't happen because hitler disarmed the populace years before. The socialist politicians know this and try to take our firearms one type at a time. It's the "slippery slope that most folks can't see.

" Very few people it seems have this kind of experience."

I do ( both parents served in the military, me to) and so do many of my friends and acquaintances. Even some of my left leaning friends are well armed and trained.

This country has a Second Amendment for a good reason.

Let the Flaming begin--------------------

Lew L

OK.----- I'll apologize for my ranting now----- it's snowing and 26*F outside now and I want to ryde my !!!!!

[UtahPete]

OK----- lets be honest here: The socialist, liberal left wants to ban all firearms. Please don't be fooled by " lets ban the AR-15" ---- because the Ruger, Colt, Smith & Wesson, ect. semi-auto rifle will be next. Followed by lever action rifles. Of course after that will be the semi-auto hand gun.( which has many times more deaths attached to them than rifles of any kind) Followed by the revolver. If you don't see the " slippery slope" then you don't know history. The despots of the past first disarmed the populace before subjugation. Lew L

Lew, I understand this argument. What I don't understand is why gun advocates insist on lumping everyone who is in favor of gun registration, background checks, denial of ownership to domestic violence perpetrators, etc all in one bucket labeled 'socialist, liberal left'. I want to see some commonsense gun control, not ban all firearms and don't consider myself the socialist liberal left by any means. I think you're buying into the NRA's very successful effort to demonize anyone who won't be intimidated into silence by the NRA's authoritarian control over this essential national conversation.

[Mad Mac]

do you truly consider using a semi auto hunting or slaughtering?

Here in Wisc., we call it "culling the herd". And our deer population thanks us for it, now if we can just get rid of CWD, all would be right with the world!! Mac

[asp125]

Get rid of guns, there will be truck bombs, or drones carrying IEDs.

Degranged people are the problem... get rid of deranged people and the problem goes away. Yup, if you can't be a normal functioning member of society you get locked up or a lobotomy. Back in the 50's when mental health was treated with asylums, you didn't have mass shootings. Those of us older remember when little Billy or Sally from school who was just sort of weird, one summer they just went away? When the government decided to start releasing and integrating patients into society, that's when these shootings started to happen more frequently. Cruel you say? More cruel than having to give up your guns? What's more important to you as a parent?

THE PROBLEM IS HEALTH CARE... NOT GUNS! Leave my guns alone! Leave my high powered cars and motorcycles alone! Mental health is the problem. Hmmm and which party decides to cut health care while accepting a $30million "donation" from the NRA... hypocrisy bordering on evil! But nope, the SNOWFLAKES will shout "mine mine mine mine" and hide behind the second amendment before they will even consider one iota of humanity and think about the big picture.

Nobody is taking away your effing guns, I am a responsible gun owner, just like a responsible motorcycle rider. In both cases there are those who want to ruin the fun for everybody, so deal with those and you make a dent in the problem. If you continue to hide behind tired memes and false arguments you're part of the problem. Have the balls to say enough is enough and quit banging your head against the same old wall; instead, maybe work together and find a way around or over that wall?

[Mad Mac]

the reason i have to ask it is because some don't realize just because it was legal at one time and we don't realize
how bad or dangerous it is should never be a reason to keep it legal. cigarettes seem to be a perfect example of
this but at least cigarettes will eventually kill the owner.

I can hear "Chuck Shumer" in the back ground of this conversation. Mac

[Lew L]

Well said. And, I would add, let's scientifically study the problem. The CDC has been prevented by Congress from doing so, from what I understand. It's a national epidemic and should be treated as such. We have lost more innocents (and police) from this scourge (weapons in the hands of temporarily deranged people) than we ever have from terrorists; let's throw some resources at solving it.

Well said Pete.

If I may add that many of the murders have been on or recently quit SSRI drugs causing even more mental instability and loss of any reality--- often turning them into murdering psychopaths.

Let the flaming begin---------


Lew L

[UtahPete]

Get rid of guns, there will be truck bombs, or drones carrying IEDs.

Degranged people are the problem... get rid of deranged people and the problem goes away. Yup, if you can't be a normal functioning member of society you get locked up or a lobotomy. Back in the 50's when mental health was treated with asylums, you didn't have mass shootings. Those of us older remember when little Billy or Sally from school who was just sort of weird, one summer they just went away? When the government decided to start releasing and integrating patients into society, that's when these shootings started to happen more frequently. Cruel you say? More cruel than having to give up your guns? What's more important to you as a parent?

THE PROBLEM IS HEALTH CARE... NOT GUNS! Leave my guns alone! Leave my high powered cars and motorcycles alone! Mental health is the problem. Hmmm and which party decides to cut health care while accepting a $30million "donation" from the NRA... hypocrisy bordering on evil! But nope, the SNOWFLAKES will shout "mine mine mine mine" and hide behind the second amendment before they will even consider one iota of humanity and think about the big picture.

Nobody is taking away your effing guns, I am a responsible gun owner, just like a responsible motorcycle rider. In both cases there are those who want to ruin the fun for everybody, so deal with those and you make a dent in the problem. If you continue to hide behind tired memes and false arguments you're part of the problem. Have the balls to say enough is enough and quit banging your head against the same old wall; instead, maybe work together and find a way around or over that wall?

Wow. Well said.

[Bob Denman]

Do you remember the "Good Old Days"; when there were Insane Asylums?
Then they decided that folks would be better off being "mainstreamed"...
What a crock of crap THAT was!

[PrairieSpyder]

Ban the guns? Why not! It worked so well for illicit drugs!!

[UtahPete]

Well said Pete. If I may add that many of the murders have been on or recently quit SSRI drugs causing even more mental instability and loss of any reality--- often turning them into murdering psychopaths. Let the flaming begin--------- Lew L

All we are saying is, let's address the real problems in our society, not the straw men that special interests keep throwing out there to thwart any meaningful dialog on important issues.

[hillrad]

Certain people exist that shouldn't be allowed within a 100 yds of a loaded weapon. This includes some individuals "trained" and required to carry weapons as part of their occupation (i.e. law enforcement, military, etc., etc.). Like it's said... a firearms primary safety is between the ears.

[Mad Mac]

Would you like to wake up at 4:30 am, and hike 7 miles back into the woods (over a mountain: of course!); to sit for hours in sub-freezing temperatures?
And when "Mr. Big" comes into view: try and control the shivering, your breathing, pick out the best spot for a clean shot, raise the rifle to your shoulder, hold it there for... forever... and THEN exercise proper trigger control, pick the right spot on the animal, and make the shot?
That's just the start of the fun!
Now: track it down (If it didn't drop on the spot: they rarely do!), tag it, field-dress it, hook a rope to itm, and start that 7 mile walk home?

I didn't think so...

RIGHT ON,BOB! Mac

[UtahPete]

Certain people exist that shouldn't be allowed within a 100 yds of a loaded weapon. This includes some individuals "trained" and required to carry weapons as part of their occupation (i.e. law enforcement, military, etc., etc.). Like it's said... a firearms primary safety is between the ears.

It's obvious there is a lot of interest by reasonable people in looking for meaningful solutions to this problem. Don't let the special interests and extremists control the conversation.

[UtahPete]

Ban the guns? Why not! It worked so well for illicit drugs!!

We who want to find a solution are not talking about banning guns, as the NRA would have you believe.

[Lew L]

Lew, I understand this argument. What I don't understand is why gun advocates insist on lumping everyone who is in favor of gun registration, background checks, denial of ownership to domestic violence perpetrators, etc all in one bucket labeled 'socialist, liberal left'. I want to see some commonsense gun control, not ban all firearms and don't consider myself the socialist liberal left by any means. I think you're buying into the NRA's very successful effort to demonize anyone who won't be intimidated into silence by the NRA's authoritarian control over this essential national conversation.

Hi Pete,

In reality I believe the "essential national conversation" is controled by the liberal media not the NRA. When was the last time you saw a ranking member of the NRA on national TV or radio------ compared to the huge deluge of "gun control " talk. And yes, "they" en-essence want " gun bans.

I absolute agree that this country needs to make changes. President Trump quickly proposed changes and I hope they come into play. Age limits, better communications and actions by federal and local authorities, ect.

Did you know that the NRA supports firearms safety with many classes and gun lock giveaways. My last firearm purchase came with one.

[UtahPete]

Do you remember the "Good Old Days"; when there were Insane Asylums? Then they decided that folks would be better off being "mainstreamed"... What a crock of crap THAT was!

I believe the state-administered mental health institutions were shut down over a short-sighted attempt to save money and a misguided attempt to address the civil-rights abuses of the mentally ill that were common back then. That's what the 'Cuckoo's Nest' film was about.

Unfortunately, because of partisan bickering, that system got dismantled rather than getting fixed. Combine that with easy access to guns and voila! Deadly mix.

[UtahPete]

Hi Pete,

In reality I believe the "essential national conversation" is controled by the liberal media not the NRA. When was the last time you saw a ranking member of the NRA on national TV or radio------ compared to the huge deluge of "gun control " talk. And yes, "they" en-essence want " gun bans.

I absolute agree that this country needs to make changes. President Trump quickly proposed changes and I hope they come into play. Age limits, better communications and actions by federal and local authorities, ect.

Did you know that the NRA supports firearms safety with many classes and gun lock giveaways. My last firearm purchase came with one.

My issue with the NRA is they are unwilling to accept any restrictions on gun ownership. Any.

[Bob Denman]

That's just not true at all...
The NRA is all about responsible firearms ownership. They freely recognize that many people shouldn't own firearms at all.
They want to protect the rights of Law-Abiding owners.

[Lew L]

My issue with the NRA is they are unwilling to accept any restrictions on gun ownership. Any.

Yah, I know. I wish they could publicly see that not all people should be able to legally own a firearm. Just as many states will not issue a CCW to felons, ect. Serious back round checks are the norm for a CCW. In many states an 18 year-old cannot purchase a pistol----- but can purchase a rifle. Makes no sense.

[Bob Denman]

That's why they use the phrase "Law-abiding".