ar-15

[Orange Spyder Man]

the reason i have to ask it is because some don't realize just because it was legal at one time and we don't realize
how bad or dangerous it is should never be a reason to keep it legal. cigarettes seem to be a perfect example of
this but at least cigarettes will eventually kill the owner.

how dangerous are vehicles.. check how many people died yesterday driving them.. no one is trying to ban vehicles.. why? aren't dangerous ?

[Bob Denman]

I am a New York State approved Sportsman Education instructor, and have taught both firearm and bowhunting classes for 20 years.
I am also an NRA certified home defense, and marksmanship instructor.
The differences between hunting, tracking, and killing?
That's easy:
Tracking and killing are part of hunting.
But they are not ALL of what hunting encompasses.
The AR-15 would definitely NOT be the weapon of choice against a Black Bear...
Try using one on ducks, and you should be thrown in jail!
I don't watch movies about shooting: they have no basis in fact, and mislead people.

[PrairieSpyder]

I would assume, Bob, black bear would require a larger caliber than the .223 of the AR-15? We don't have bears here, but I got an AR-30 so I'd have a larger caliber for things like deer. In Kansas you must use at least .308 for deer.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

how dangerous are vehicles.. check how many people died yesterday driving them.. no one is trying to ban vehicles.. why? aren't dangerous ?

well perhaps if anyone who walked into dmv wasn't given a license or we had retesting after a certain age or we had
much much stricter dwi laws or stricter laws on texting or judges who would actually enforce to the full extent of the
law we could cut down a lot of those fatalities. but just remember outside of a few terrorists NOW deliberately using
a car as a weapon.......

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

If you are for gun control I'd invite you to spend a weekend in the wonderful city of Chicago. Not just the tourist parts but all parts. Despite having the toughest gun laws in the country Chicago had over 30 people shot last weekend alone. If you think that number is high just wait till the weather warms up.

You do realize that it is illegal to carry a gun in Chicago right? Do you actually think if guns were banned that somehow these people are going to show up and turn in their gun because it is illegal? Who is going to be assigned to going in and finding those guns that were not turned in? Are you for the police kicking in every door until they think they have every gun in Chicago?

Here's a hint .... Criminals don't follow the laws so if you are banned from carrying a gun then guess what? They are still going to carry a gun.

What needs to happen is to get these soft targets (malls, schools, etc) and give them the same type of defense as we give our politicians. Open the mental hospitals back up and start putting those who need the help back inside and quit letting them self medicate on the outside. Lastly quit giving these nut jobs who attempt these type of acts any notoriety whatsoever. No pics, no names ... nothing.

you are right, i think if they allowed people to carry on their shoulder ar-15's then perhaps we could cut down on
the innocent being killed since assault rifles are the solution not the problem.

[Rogue Hawk]

I would assume, Bob, black bear would require a larger caliber than the .223 of the AR-15? We don't have bears here, but I got an AR-30 so I'd have a larger caliber for things like deer. In Kansas you must use at least .308 for deer.

I would use this

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I am a New York State approved Sportsman Education instructor, and have taught both firearm and bowhunting classes for 20 years.
I am also an NRA certified home defense, and marksmanship instructor.
The differences between hunting, tracking, and killing?
That's easy:
Tracking and killing are part of hunting.
But they are not ALL of what hunting encompasses.
The AR-15 would definitely NOT be the weapon of choice against a Black Bear...
Try using one on ducks, and you should be thrown in jail!
I don't watch movies about shooting: they have no basis in fact, and mislead people.

bob understand my point, an ar-15 and all assault rifles are best at killing people not animals but i will admit some people are animals.

[PrairieSpyder]

bob understand my point, an ar-15 and all assault rifles are best at killing people not animals but i will admit some people are animals.

AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. Assault rifles are full-automatic.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. Assault rifles are full-automatic.

sorry, how do you classify it then?

I did find this:
gun-control advocates say that distinction is arbitrary and that the weapons are just as dangerous because they are designed to kill a large number of people quickly. They often point out that the AR-15 has a high muzzle velocity, which, combined with the small .223 round, produces a violent ricochet through an animal body if it hits bone.

Bolt-action rifles with cartridges loaded in 30.06, a common deer-hunting caliber, fire a round that travels slower with more blunt force, though the muzzle velocity varies for lighter and heavier rounds.

[Bob Denman]

It's JUST a semi-automatic rifle: nothing more, and nothing les.

[Bob Denman]

I would assume, Bob, black bear would require a larger caliber than the .223 of the AR-15? We don't have bears here, but I got an AR-30 so I'd have a larger caliber for things like deer. In Kansas you must use at least .308 for deer.

You're exactly right!
But keep in mind, that an Alaskan Grizzly was once killed by a camp cook; with a single-shot rifle chambered for the .22 short . She put a single round in it's ear, and the lights went out.
The larger and more powerful rounds give you a whole lot more leeway; in your shot placement selection.

[Pirate looks at --]

Have to admit I am surprised how tame this discussion has been. Good points made on both sides. Hey even some of the people that are on my long long ignore list have made points that I agree with. One thing we are witnessing today with these kids speaking out, is the heart felt reactions from people that have been in the presence of evil, with an assault rifle, and they have survived. They have suffered loss and have had their lives changed forever. They witnessed what evil can do when supplied with an effective killing device. So who knows how each of us would react under the same circumstances. It is possible that, if the most passionate of gun lovers on this forum got the call that their 15 year old daughter was just shot in the face with an AR-15, that individual might just be on the bus to Washington with these kids. I wish them well in their quest. I applaud them for speaking out, I hope people in power will listen. What they are doing represents what this country was founded on, the right to speak and be heard. It is very clear that something in this country has got to change, or each of us on this forum will be experiencing the same horror this kids have faced.

[Bob Denman]

Since there has been a lot of speeches about "Banning the AR-15": let me add something to consider...

Even if you ban ALL firearms: you have done nothing to get rid of the evil intentions, that drive these acts...

[RinconRyder]

Someone killed by a drunk driver is not a volunteer. Someone forced to suck in second hand smoke is also not a volunteer.

I guess I need to use Trump verbage so that my point is understood.

If you continue hanging around the bar where others are smoking you are "volunteering" for lung disease.

If you ride with a drinking driver you are "volunteering" to die when he/she eventually crashes into something.

When you attend elementary school, high school or a country western concert you in no way are "volunteering" to be shot.

See the difference?

[Pirate looks at --]

I am not sure that I mentioned banning anything. I agree that evil is evil whether there are guns or not. I just know that something has got to change before these acts reach all of our home towns. It is a time for everybody to seriously open their minds to making changes. What we need is open dialogue, not the same old tired arguments. This is what I admire about what these kids are doing. They are forcing dialogue. So let's put partisanship behind us and open our minds to what each side has to say, that is how change happens! Please let's make a change, for the sake of our children, and our children's children!

[RinconRyder]

the reason i have to ask it is because some don't realize just because it was legal at one time and we don't realize how bad or dangerous it is should never be a reason to keep it legal.

Opioids are a medical tool just like many other drugs. Used appropriately they are not dangerous. This perfect storm, the opioid "crisis", was caused by multiple events:

1. Over Rxing by doctors.
2. Doctor shopping by patients/drug users.
3. Doctors keeping patients on these drugs too long.
4. Drug addicts finding another cheap high.

Now, as with the gun problem, we are losing a valuable medicine because both perscribers and recipients abuse the drug and instead of the correct solution we simply make them illegal.

[RinconRyder]

You don't know anything about firearms...
And you know even LESS about hunting.
Quit trying to pass judgement on the Sport, and try to listen.

Hunting is NOT a sport.

It could be.....if the prey also had weapons.

[Bob Denman]

I am not sure that I mentioned banning anything...

If I implied that you did: I apologize! You NEVER mentioned banning them.

[Machinegunner]

The father at the White House yesterday, who had just lost his daughter. Said that when he went to the Dept. of Ed. in D.C. there was an armed security guard on the elevator. We have to do something to protect our kids at school. Then put down the damn phones and start interacting with each other again to fix our society.

[Bob Denman]

Opioids are a medical tool just like many other drugs.

Did you know that you've just made the classic mistake?
The "opioid epidemic is not solely about misusing prescription drugs: they've also lumped in heroin, and all of the other Non over-the-counter recreational ones...

And it's been done to try and make it seem as if the abusers are just playing with pills, and not sticking needles in their arms, or snorting lines...

[Bob Denman]

Hunting is NOT a sport.

It could be.....if the prey also had weapons.

Would you like to wake up at 4:30 am, and hike 7 miles back into the woods (over a mountain: of course!); to sit for hours in sub-freezing temperatures?
And when "Mr. Big" comes into view: try and control the shivering, your breathing, pick out the best spot for a clean shot, raise the rifle to your shoulder, hold it there for... forever... and THEN exercise proper trigger control, pick the right spot on the animal, and make the shot?
That's just the start of the fun!
Now: track it down (If it didn't drop on the spot: they rarely do!), tag it, field-dress it, hook a rope to itm, and start that 7 mile walk home?

I didn't think so...

[RinconRyder]

If you are for gun control I'd invite you to spend a weekend in the wonderful city of Chicago. Not just the tourist parts but all parts. Despite having the toughest gun laws in the country Chicago had over 30 people shot last weekend alone. If you think that number is high just wait till the weather warms up.

You do realize that it is illegal to carry a gun in Chicago right? Do you actually think if guns were banned that somehow these people are going to show up and turn in their gun because it is illegal? Who is going to be assigned to going in and finding those guns that were not turned in? Are you for the police kicking in every door until they think they have every gun in Chicago?

Here's a hint .... Criminals don't follow the laws so if you are banned from carrying a gun then guess what? They are still going to carry a gun.

What needs to happen is to get these soft targets (malls, schools, etc) and give them the same type of defense as we give our politicians. Open the mental hospitals back up and start putting those who need the help back inside and quit letting them self medicate on the outside. Lastly quit giving these nut jobs who attempt these type of acts any notoriety whatsoever. No pics, no names ... nothing.

I haven't yet heard anyone suggest a total ban on all guns....especially those designed for self protection. So that is a false argument.

And, your "mental" evaluation and hospitalization will not work. If you look through the catalog of mass shootings you will see many instances of perps who suddenly flipped out with no prior events that would indicate mental illness. Secondly, you cannot confine someone for their thoughts of what they might do in the future. That would go against our entire justice system. Thirdly, putting armed security forces in every public place to guard against the occasional nut job with an assault weapon would be (1) excessively expensive and (2) virtually impossible. This type of security only works with small areas and places with limited access/egress. It won't work in an open mall where a dozen stores are open to the parking lots.

You think it is "nut jobs" that shoot up the joint for notoriety? Possible in some cases I guess but sweeping it under the rug would be a huge disservice to virtually everyone but the shooter. We need to understand why they do it and take steps to mitigate those causes. Failing that we need to remove the weapons they use. Please explain to me why treating guns like motor vehicles is not a good idea - at least as a first step.

And one more argument I heard again this morning from a blowhard on a talk show. You claim to need guns so you can protect yourself from our government? You honestly think a dozen gun nuts with AR's could overcome even a local sheriff's office if they meant you harm? If so, you are delusional.

In the meantime you should talk with my neighbor. He was a nice family guy who had kids and kept a gun "for protection". He thought he was protecting his family one night when he heard a noise. He shot several times.....and killed his teenage son who was coming in late.

And before you label me as a wacko left winger let me tell you I grew up in the 50's and had an Army sergeant for a father. He taught me and my two younger sisters about guns and we frequently went out target shooting as kids. He also taught us safety and how to clean and care for the weapons and most important of all, when to use them and when they are not appropriate. Very few people it seems have this kind of experience.

[Lew L]

OK----- lets be honest here:

The socialist, liberal left wants to ban all firearms. Please don't be fooled by " lets ban the AR-15" ---- because the Ruger, Colt, Smith & Wesson, ect. semi-auto rifle will be next. Followed by lever action rifles. Of course after that will be the semi-auto hand gun.( which has many times more deaths attached to them than rifles of any kind) Followed by the revolver.
Knives of a certain length, baseball bats, kitchen cutlery???---well maybe not as some knives are already banned.


If you don't see the " slippery slope" then you don't know history. The despots of the past first disarmed the populace before subjugation.


Let the flaming begin----------------------

Lew L

[UtahPete]

Opioids are a medical tool just like many other drugs. Used appropriately they are not dangerous. This perfect storm, the opioid "crisis", was caused by multiple events:

1. Over Rxing by doctors.
2. Doctor shopping by patients/drug users.
3. Doctors keeping patients on these drugs too long.
4. Drug addicts finding another cheap high.

Now, as with the gun problem, we are losing a valuable medicine because both perscribers and recipients abuse the drug and instead of the correct solution we simply make them illegal.

Doctors have lobbying power. The rest of us don't. Ditto any special interest. We're not going to get commonsense solutions to problems that benefit the population as a whole until we get special interest money out of politics. Bend over and spread wide 'cause it's never going to happen.

[Machinegunner]

Many of these shooters kill their victims and then kill themselves. Why not pass a law that says they have to shoot themselves first????