ar-15

[UtahPete]

I just heard on the radio today that FBI report for 2016 stated 374 people were killed with rifles and 1700 were killed with knives. Nobody cares about knives or cars or drugs. Schools are already gun free zones. How is that working?

You hear a lot of things on the radio these days. How about finding a reliable original source for that statistic instead of some anonymous talking head?

[Saluda]

There are major differences between the military and civilian version of this gun. Modifying the civilian version to fire in other than a semi automatic mode is already against the law.

If we're going there what about fertilizer and the illegal product that is used for.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

It is just a rifle, just like any other semi-automatic rifle. It is used for hunting, target shooting, and competitive shooting. It doesn't have a mind of its own. Probably the most popular rifle in the US.

not being a gun guy i always thought a semi automatic rifle was made for killing people. what kind of animals would you hunt with that rifle?

[Saluda]

You hear a lot of things on the radio these days. How about finding a reliable original source for that statistic instead of some anonymous talking head?

Didn't he use an FBI report mentioned on the radio ?

[pegasus1300]

not being a gun guy i always thought a semi automatic rifle was made for killing people. what kind of animals would you hunt with that rifle?

Deer ,Antelope, varmites, Coyotes, Elk are a little big but you could bring one down with an AR-15. I am sure there are others.

[Saluda]

not being a gun guy what kind of animals would you hunt with that rifle?

According to American Hunter article, .223 is one of the top 5 varmint and predator cartridges.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

How many are killed by alcohol (directly or indirectly) or motor vehicles ?? Bet that number would scare you.

yes but the purpose of alcohol & cars is not to kill people

[UtahPete]

Didn't he use an FBI report mentioned on the radio ?

Right. So let's see that report, not take the word of some multi-millionaire talking head for it.

[UtahPete]

There are major differences between the military and civilian version of this gun. Modifying the civilian version to fire in other than a semi automatic mode is already against the law. If we're going there what about fertilizer and the illegal product that is used for.

Michael McVeigh needed a U-Haul truck to carry and hide that weapon.

[Saluda]

Can't agree with you or your statement. The number of deaths that those 2 items represent dwarf gun deaths (although I am not minimizing any death).

Why no big ruckus for reform or change there (alcohol, cigarettes still going pretty strong, vehicle safety, and diet in this country and obesity) ?
They contribute to the biggest killers in this country. They are also relatively easy areas to get change from. They are just not politically attractive.

[Saluda]

Michael McVeigh needed a U-Haul truck to carry and hide that weapon.

Depends on the size you desire. That was only one example to make a point. Wasn't it Timothy ?

[Mad Mac]

You are correct that the "AR" doesn't stand for "Assault Rifle." You are wrong that the AR-15 is not an assault rifle.

Washington Post: "“AR” doesn’t stand for assault rifle. It stands for the Armalite rifle, named after the company that developed the weapon. It was first used during the Vietnam War as an alternative to the M-14 rifle, which was heavy, difficult to control and outmatched by the AK-47." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6135fa87f343

Also from the Washington Post: "In the United States, the weapon traces its origins to a contract the Pentagon gave in 1957 to *Armalite." https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.9a208100a7fa

Wikipedia: "The ArmaLite AR-15 is a select-fire, 5.56x45mm, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle, with a rotating bolt and straight-line recoil design. ... The AR-15 was designed above all else to be a lightweight assault rifle, and to tire a new lightweight, high-velocity small caliber cartridge to allow the infantrymen to carry more ammunition." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15

Once Colt bought out ArmaLite, "Colt would go on to market the Colt ArmaLite AR-15 rifle to military services around the world."

It's common knowledge that the semi-automatic AR-15 was subsequently modified into the familiar M-16 full-automatic or burst-fire assault rifle. It's also common knowledge that an AR-15 can be modified to be full automatic with the right parts.

Under the circumstances, I think MSNBC's error in identifying what "AR" means is a lot less important than the error in claiming the AR-15 is not an assault rifle when in reality it was created, marketed and actually sold to the military as an assault rifle from Day One.

I am not against AR-15s or guns in general but for pete's sake, let's at least be honest about them.

When Eugene Stoner first designed the AR, it was a 7.62mm, "select fire"(semi and full auto) rifle 1953 or 55?? When the military adopted it, it was called the M-16. And the caliber was reduced to 5.56mm, so the army/marines could "hump" the rifle and twice as much ammo at the same weight to accomplish the same mission. Just my 2c worth. Mac

[UtahPete]

Depends on the size you desire. That was only one example to make a point.v Wasn't it Timothy ?

Yeah, that's right. Timothy McVeigh. Introduced America to fertilizer bombs.

[Saluda]

Right. So let's see that report, not take the word of some multi-millionaire talking head for it.

FBI, Expanded homicide data table 8, shows 2009 to 2013. Those numbers are good, you can Google it.

[UtahPete]

When Eugene Stoner first designed the AR, it was a 7.62mm, "select fire"(semi and full auto) rifle 1953 or 55?? When the military adopted it, it was called the M-16. And the caliber was reduced to 5.56mm, so the army/marines could "hump" the rifle and twice as much ammo at the same weight to accomplish the same mission. Just my 2c worth. Mac

I didn't know the history of the evolution of what I knew of as the M-16 in Vietnam. Interesting choice by the military, considering the enemy was using the far more lethal and reliable AK-47 at the time.

[UtahPete]

FBI, Expanded homicide data table 8, shows 2009 to 2013. Those numbers are good, you can Google it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-weapon-used/

2016 murders by firearms of all kinds vs. knives = 11k+ vs. 1.6k

The data quoted was 'good', but selectively used. That's the problem listening to someone else quote 'statistics'. Interpretation is everything.

[Saluda]

Wonder how many were criminals killing criminals with guns they should not have legally possessed ? Or just the number of guns used that were not legally obtained. Even good statistics can be used multiple ways.

[UtahPete]

Wonder how many were criminals killing criminals with guns they should not have legally possessed ? Or just the number of guns used that were not legally obtained. Even good statistics can be used multiple ways.

I'm still looking for that one, but here's another;

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...hooter-s-race/

[RinconRyder]

Most killings are done by deranged people. I never heard of one rifle or pistol that fired by it self. It's NOT THE GUN.

Oh sure you have. They get dropped. Trigger catches on clothing. Dog knocks over shotgun. Hunter props rifle against fence. Hunter climbs fence. Fence breaks. Hunter falls off fence. Gun falls on ground and shoots hunter in butt. How about son who comes in late and is shot by non-deranged father? That happened in my neighborhood two years ago. Upscale neighborhood. Not much crime. Father was not "deranged". Wonder how he is feeling now?

We have got to keep firearms of all kinds out of the hands of people who should not have them. Not only 'deranged' people but youngsters, old farts who cannot see what they are shooting at and, of course, criminals.

IT ABSOLUTELY IS THE GUN!

We need a total ban on semi-automatic weapons and the devices that make them so effective at killing people. We need mandatory safety training, licensing and usage/storage requirements just as we do for vehicles. And we need mandatory and effective background checks to prevent 'deranged' persons from having guns of any type.

I personally would like to see a mandatory 20 years imprisonment added to any crime committed with a gun.

None of the above would negatively impact your personal enjoyment of target shooting or hunting so the only thing I can say if you continue to disagree with this direction is that you value your guns more than your children.

[UtahPete]

Wonder how many were criminals killing criminals with guns they should not have legally possessed ? Or just the number of guns used that were not legally obtained. Even good statistics can be used multiple ways.

I don't see any such statistics, probably because 'criminal' is a fairly subjective term.

However, homicide (the one crime we most fear and is used to justify Americans arming themselves to the teeth) is negligible;

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...type-of-crime/

[Machinegunner]

We've had semi-automatic weapons in this country since the early 1900s. We didn't start seeing these mass shootings until the 80s or 90s. What happened to our society? Nobody I ever knew in school in the 50s and 60s ever even thought about shooting anyone. And we all had guns.

[Bob Denman]

Look up the Remington model 8
My Grampa Denman hunted with one of those rifles for over 60 years.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

We've had semi-automatic weapons in this country since the early 1900s. We didn't start seeing these mass shootings until the 80s or 90s. What happened to our society? Nobody I ever knew in school in the 50s and 60s ever even thought about shooting anyone. And we all had guns.

we also had cocaine in the early 1900's, why don't we have it anymore legally?

[Mad Mac]

I didn't know the history of the evolution of what I knew of as the M-16 in Vietnam. Interesting choice by the military, considering the enemy was using the far more lethal and reliable AK-47 at the time.

I guess you could call them both "spray & pray" weapons. I guess the AK was "designed like a tractor" according to Kalashnikov! I came in to my military career later on in life and I was not trying to be disrespectful and by the way, THANK YOU for your service. Mac

[Bob Denman]

Because it was outlawed...Duh!