Guess when I used Premium vs Regular

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Not sure of the elevation where you are but as you go higher you can drop the fuel rating accordingly. Not necessary to run high octane at high elevations.

Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The responses to this thread, and the poll responses, have been great. Keep it up! I may ask Lamont to close the poll early in a few days if it looks like interest is waning and before this topic gets stale!

[canamjhb]

I always figure an ave speed of 50mph,thus 3hrs=150 miles. Yes sometimes I get more sometimes less but that is pretty average over 50+ years on the road.

I totally agree. Been doing long distance touring for over 35 years and plan for 50 miles for each hour on the road. Of course there are exceptions but factoring in fuel, rest, and meal stops, 50 is a good figure. On the spyder I routinely obtain 35-40 MPG unless I spend a lot of time in stop and go city or slow mountain twisties roads. But all that is unimportant. Just need to keep riding to keep a smile going....

[RinconRyder]

Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

Humidity might be the culprit rather than elevation. Humidity displaces oxygen molecules. We used to have to adjust the nitro ratio in our fuelie for the humidity. I wasn't the fuel guy so don't know all the specifics but do remember that. For elevation the guys used to adjust the blower (more blower for more elevation).

[edmarble]

Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

Higher elevation, thinner air, less drag = better gas mileage. Have noticed this over the years on two and three wheels. When I get back from a long trip in the Rockies to the cold, humid, sea level air in Washington, it feels like I’m constantly riding into a headwind.

[Tango]

I don't know how you all do it. 150 miles is about 3 hrs and that is as much as the "other" tank can hold before it has to be emptied. As long as I can do 150 miles between fill ups (and empties) I am happy.

That's how we figure things out. Plan for 50 mph, and get off the bike for a stretch. We routinely get 40mpg or better. A high of 45 on back roads. Interstate blasting is another story. Very happy with the F3. Tom

[Bob Denman]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for the fuel type to use: why try and argue with them?

[Wildrice]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for the fuel type to use: why try and argue with them?

I agree--the extra cost per gallon over a period of time amounts to less than one (1) farkle.
Darrell

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for .... why try and argue with them?

I agree--

We should only use Kenda tires, right? And of course, only BRP oil!! At least they don't tell us whose air we need to use in the tires!

[wd8ajj]

Years ago when I worked in the Labs at Standard Oil Co. One of our tests were to measure the octane rating between regular and premium. As far as the "gas" was concerned, all was the same. The difference was all the additives that were added to boost octane levels and more cleaners. But the gas no matter what level all started as the same. Only the additives and amounts made the difference. Racing fuels are whole another story and blended different from standard gas.

[Easy Rider]

We should only use Kenda tires, right? And of course, only BRP oil!!

No of course not.
I don't believe that you will find those things as a "requirement" anywhere; probably not even a recommendation.
Specifying what brand of routine maintenance "parts" to use is actually illegal in the US, in general.

[Bob Denman]

We should only use Kenda tires, right? And of course, only BRP oil!! At least they don't tell us whose air we need to use in the tires!

I would argue that the engineers just said to use fuel with a particular octane level: they didn't say which brand to use.

[Neil Rupp]

Detonation or pre ignition is a concern for me on my 2014 Rt 1330. I just returned from a 3500 mile trip, Ohio to Key West and back, mileage ranged from 34 to 41 MPG using Premium. Why take a chance? Neil

[Bob Denman]

You don't need to worry about detonation. The computer has plenty of ways to deal with it...

[Easy Rider]

You don't need to worry about detonation. The computer has plenty of ways to deal with it...

No it does not.

There is only ONE way and that is to retard the timing to prevent "spark knock".

Unless it has computer controlled individual valve timing, there is NOTHING the control systems can do to prevent "pre-ignition" ..........that happens before the spake hits. That is, I presume, why they recommend higher octane fuel.

[RinconRyder]

No it does not.

There is only ONE way and that is to retard the timing to prevent "spark knock".

Unless it has computer controlled individual valve timing, there is NOTHING the control systems can do to prevent "pre-ignition" ..........that happens before the spake hits. That is, I presume, why they recommend higher octane fuel.

I concur. Valve timing is used to obtain better fuel mileage and/or increased power output and does not affect denotation.

Denotation is cured by slowing the fuel burn (so it doesn't explode which is the sound you hear) and/or reducing the compression ratio.

[johnsimion]

Hello, I'm new to Spyder but this thread raised questions in my mind. My Spyder is a new 2017 and my dealer outright told me to use Premium. According to my manual, "Use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON/2) octane rating of 91, or a RON octane rating of 95." It goes on and says, "NOTICE. Never experiment with other fuels. Engine or fuel system damage may occur with the use of an inadequate fuel." It also notifies me not to use E85.

Did the fuel requirements change over the years? In my area, premium unleaded is 91 octane. Given the manual's warnings, why would I even try regular? Sure, it's **probably** okay but why would I take chances? Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?

[ruralgirl]

I'm sure from a sales point of view, BRP would love to be able to boast that the Spyder can run on regular, but using fast burning gas in a high compression ration engine is flirting with engine knock as its flame-front across the cylinder creates an explosion point which can ultimately ruin your engine in multiple ways. The Spyder was designed for premium gas, so that's what I always use.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Given the manual's warnings, why would I even try regular? Sure, it's **probably** okay but why would I take chances? Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?

Valid question, and you are in the majority for sure. On the other side are a number of owners who vigorously argue that real world experience has shown that regular works just fine with many thousands of miles on their machines. As far as I know no one has dismantled two different Spyder engines, both with like maybe 100,000 miles on them, one having run regular the whole time, and the other premium. Until someone does that and provides photos of what the engines look like on the inside the argument one way or the other has to be based on what the builders say to do.

There are many here who through the years have argued why try to save a few pennies by using regular when premium gives added gas mileage that offsets the additional cost. The other side of the argument is that since it appears regular works just fine why not save money on gas? For some folks just because they have a Spyder doesn't mean their wallets are flush with cash.

And then there have been many discussions about MPG and what impacts it. I posted the graphs and started this thread to show the fallacy of arguing MPG. It's just too variable to provide any reliable and meaningful information about different fuels, road conditions, towing situations, and on and on!

In the end do what fits inside your comfort zone and don't let anyone dissuade you.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I also had one long trip pulling a trailer. Can you tell when it was?

Correction! I actually had two long trips and one short trip pulling a trailer.

[Easy Rider]

Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?

Given the survey results, it seems that most Spyder owners agree with you.

BUT.....among other things some people seem to take some kind of perverse pride in "outsmarting" the Engineers.

In my opinion, it is their property and they can do whatever they want to with it BUT they should not be encouraging others to take a risk that they may not fully understand.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just bringing this to top for those who may have missed it earlier. Poll closes the 10th. Look at the graphs and see if you can tell when I used regular and when I used premium, if in fact I have used both!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

CORRECTION: Poll closes tomorrow, 11/09, at 4:01 PM.

[bscrive]

I have always used regular gas without any issues on all our bikes.

The way I look at it is that regular gas is probably replenished faster that all the other types of grades, so you get fresher fuel each time you fill up. The other grades may sit in the gas station's tanks longer possibly collecting water.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This has been an interesting thread, for me anyway! As I've mentioned before I wanted to show just how variable MPG is. If you want to get a somewhat accurate reading of your Spyder's MPG over the long term you need to look at the all miles over the all gallons numbers. Any short period isn't going to be meaningful at all, IMO. The all miles average smooths out the variation due to driving conditions and habits.

I goofed on the graph for All Miles Average MPG. I used a wrong number for the beginning of the graph. I should have looked at it closer right from the start since it didn't quite make sense that the early overall MPG was so low. I'm surprised no one asked about it. Here's a corrected graph. The impact of the mistake is very little from about 9000 miles on. Since tank to tank MPG varies widely the MPG for the first few hundred miles also varied widely. That's why the graph starts at about 700 miles. After about 9000 miles the MPG stays quite constant.

All miles MPG corrected.jpg

Take a look at these graphs. They show my MPG while pulling my tent-on-a-trailer on two long trips in 2016 and one ~1000 mile trip in 2017. As you can see the 2017 MPG doesn't vary as much as the 2016. That's for two reasons. First there are fewer fill ups represented, and second, the 2017 trip was all 2 lane highways, much at speeds less than 50 mph.

2016 MPG with trailer.jpg

2017 MPG with trailer.JPG

If you look at the 4 Fill MPG graph the higher MPGs mostly were when I was on two lane roads riding about 60 mph and below. The low MPG are mostly Interstate roads at 70 mph and above. The really low numbers were when I was bucking strong head winds. This is the case whether or not I was pulling my trailer.

Now, before I tell you which poll option best matches my fuel selection for the two riding seasons take another look at the 4 Fill MPG graph.

4 Fill MPG.jpg

What can you tell about when I used regular and when I used premium? 68 percent of you selected the option of premium for both seasons.

Go to the next post for the answer!!