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  1. #26
    Very Active Member HayRog's Avatar
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    Default Real good thread ..

    I'm liking all the input so far.
    I'm not at all well versed in the various intricacies of power upgrades ----- I only know I'd love more power, if only for the safety factor.
    I'm looking at the ECU flash - just have to prod myself a little more

    Should NOT have sold the FJR1300

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

    Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

    It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.
    NOPE.......you nailed it Could not agree more.

  3. #28
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.
    Don't include me in that group--at the tender age of 73---- I just sold my 344 rwhp 212# torque on my 530 lb turbo Hayabusa. Vertigo issues in parking lots but 3 wheels take care of that problem.
    I've blown engines on 2 Busa's & 1 Harley. 2 were my fault--didn't back out top end timing--the Harley died on it's own at 50 mph. Building a balanced reliable engine---$3500-$4000 +. Fun isn't cheap but its worth it to me --probably 5% to 10% of Spyder owners. Some have spent more on Farkle.
    Darrell
    Last edited by Wildrice; 11-04-2017 at 07:51 PM.

  4. #29
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navydad View Post
    Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price. My son is an avid motorcyclist and rides every chance he gets. He rides a Honda 1100 Shadow which is a great bike and he has been cross country twice on it. With a family, mortgage, car payments, etc. he just doesn't have $20,000 or more to plop down on a new bike. Anyway, back to the original idea of this post. When I ride my Spyder it is two up 95% of the time and fully loaded when on a trip. My solo rides and trips are done on two wheels. I would like the extra power that my Spyder may be capable of. One other thing I didn't see mentioned was the dreaded emissions rules that govern what can be on the highways. Since our Spyders are a road going vehicle they must be tuned to pass these regulations. Are the off highway vehicles tuned to meet these regs or are they allowed to "run free" so to speak.
    The emission control standards only apply to a few States like Calif.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    The emission control standards only apply to a few States like Calif.
    Absolutely wrong.

    There are Federal standards but states can have tighter regs if they wish.
    My ride: '17 Spyder RT

  6. #31
    Active Member MSa1956's Avatar
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    Thumbs up So What's The Answer

    Who are the Aftermarket Companies, like the ECU Flash, or exhaust systems, fuel control measuring. Where can one find such adapt abilities to any can am, I carry precious cargo on my Bike and it's my Beautiful wife.

    Mike

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  7. #32
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    Price & Performance: Put the two together and that's exactly why you don't see the younger generation riding them. @ 20K+, people expect more performance. Wouldn't take much more either... 10, maybe 15 percent and a lot more of us "young people" lol would be satisfied and more willing to extend ourselves financially IMO. ~ They unlocked the nanny in my 2017 D500-F3 (se), but being an automatic it doesn't have "quite enough" power/low end torque to make much of a difference. With good tires, it sticks to the road so well you can't predictably get the rear tire to slip, not even when starting on a corner let alone a straight line. (Almost makes it more dangerous for an experienced rider who is expecting to counter-steer but instead the inside tire just comes up.) Just that little extra power would resolve this.

    I've left mine stock, but contemplate sending out the ECM for tuning. I still don't understand why it's not possible to just get different gearing with a custom rear drive sprocket. Seems to me the anti-traction relies on rim rotation speed. And just this mod could/would make enough of a performance difference that I'd be satisfied. (I personally could care less if the machine topped out at 120 or 100. I'm not looking for top speed, just "fun factor" down low. ~ And I rarely use 6'th gear anyways.)
    Last edited by TRLBLZR1; 11-07-2017 at 09:07 AM.
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  8. #33
    Active Member aklim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested. .
    I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

    Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun

  9. #34
    Active Member aklim's Avatar
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    Anyone know how they tune it if you don't have a dyno for 3 wheels? I suppose you would have to disable the ABS, wouldn't you?

  10. #35
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    Default performance

    i believe revolution performance is working on performance up grades for the 1330 there out of wi.

  11. #36
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aklim View Post
    I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

    Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun
    I think you shot yourself in the foot at some point. Either you, or possibly someone else, has taught her way too much about mechanics and performance! Hahaha!
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navydad View Post
    Lack of power is not what is keeping younger folks away from HD's, Spyders, Wings, or any other large bikes. It is the price.
    I agree, but there are other factors as well. I'm a lifetime car and bike guy with two sons, 30 and 24. In spite of my example, neither they nor any of their friends care a fig about cars OR motorcycles. Go to a car or bike show some time and you'll see what I mean -- most everybody there is at least mid-40s. Give the younger crowd a cell phone and a computer or XBox and their "social media" and they're perfectly happy. To the extent they care about cars, it's just for basic transportation, and there's no comparison between cars and motorcycles if that's all you care about ... think snow, rain, hot, cold, etc. Motorcycles aren't even cheap to ride; insurance is very expensive for the young, for obvious reasons. The main reason anyone rides a bike or Spyder is for fun. To the extent the young can be torn away from their smart phones to actually enjoy a bike, they're going to go for a sportbike -- which can be had for $8000 or less brand new. Even if the Spyder could compete on price, the sportbikes have performance that no Spyder would ever be able to match.

  13. #38
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    Default YEP!

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsimion View Post
    I agree, but there are other factors as well. I'm a lifetime car and bike guy with two sons, 30 and 24. In spite of my example, neither they nor any of their friends care a fig about cars OR motorcycles. Go to a car or bike show some time and you'll see what I mean -- most everybody there is at least mid-40s. Give the younger crowd a cell phone and a computer or XBox and their "social media" and they're perfectly happy. To the extent they care about cars, it's just for basic transportation, and there's no comparison between cars and motorcycles if that's all you care about ... think snow, rain, hot, cold, etc. Motorcycles aren't even cheap to ride; insurance is very expensive for the young, for obvious reasons. The main reason anyone rides a bike or Spyder is for fun. To the extent the young can be torn away from their smart phones to actually enjoy a bike, they're going to go for a sportbike -- which can be had for $8000 or less brand new. Even if the Spyder could compete on price, the sportbikes have performance that no Spyder would ever be able to match.
    Excellent post & 100% spot on IMO. (Still, just a little more "off the line" torque would be sooooo nice! Would justify being able to disable the traction control in an SE.)
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  14. #39
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    Absolutely wrong.

    There are Federal standards but states can have tighter regs if they wish.

    What was I thinking??? The Federal Government has a spec for everything ever very sold

    The Federal Standards must be really loose. I lived in Calif for 20+ yrs--they are strict. I've been in Ohio for 18 yrs. The exhaust noise--engine modifications--I've never seen or heard of them being challenged by the police depts or highway patrol & we have some really radical engine vehicles driven on the street & freeways from home to the drag strip. My turbo hayabusa could rattle windows.
    Darrell
    Last edited by Wildrice; 11-16-2017 at 11:28 AM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.
    I like to think our priorities have changed when we bought Spyders. Too old .... sheesh I hope not.

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  16. #41
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.
    Glad you said "most". I keep a V-max around for just a little excitement. At 70 yrs old---- V-boost is a real kick.

    Lew L
    Last edited by Lew L; 11-08-2017 at 02:43 PM.
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  17. #42
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    And, use the correct spelling of the engine ...Rotax
    Thank you so very much for your extremely useful post! It has helped me so much with my question!!!

    I have googled it. There is nothing out there. That is why I posted my question here. I thought if any would know, it would be the members here...

    If u want two folow me arround corecting mi speling, punktuation, n gramar, u r goin too b verry bussy!
    Last edited by Poseidon; 11-08-2017 at 10:10 PM.
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  18. #43
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    If u want two folow me arround corecting mi speling, punktuation, n gramar, u r goin too b verry bussy!
    U R Krazy

  19. #44
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    U R Krazy
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.


    I wouldn't mind a bit more power. I ride two up with a trailer and it struggles with headwinds and hills.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    That is the number one reason why BRP or the aftermarket needs to step up and find ways (like giving the Spyder more power) to draw the younger crowd to it. It is a fun machine to ride. It would be more fun with more power and even better handling! Younger generations are not riding bikes (2 or 3 wheel) in the numbers that previous generations did at their age. If something doesn't change, there are going to be fewer and fewer riders buying fewer bikes. More models are going to be dropped from production, and more manufacturers are going to close their doors or move on to making different products to stay in business.

    The first two companies I see to experience this will be Harley Davidson and the Spyder branch of BRP as they both tend to have the oldest population of customers compared to other manufacturers. I think Honda understands that this is happening. They brought out the new Gold Wing that is slimmer, lighter, with better performance and handling, and a lot more tech built in. They still are not going to draw many 20 year olds, but they are a lot more likely to draw in some customers in their 30's and 40's vs being the "old man bike" that they use to be. It is definitely a step in the right direction!
    Spyder's niche market is big enough without going after the nut-jobs.

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  22. #47
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Spyder's niche market is big enough without going after the nut-jobs.
    You are obviously not familiar with corporate America. Before you point it out, I know BRP is a Canadian company. I really don't think any big corporation has said "we are big enough, we don't need anymore customers"... EVER!!!!
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    I cannot imagine that BRP's plan is to NOT grow their market. That's how they satisfy their investors. That's how business works. That's how everything works. When it doesn't grow it's either a sign that somethings wrong, end of product life, or market saturation. Two things we can all agree on: The Spyder market is NOT saturated AND it's definitely NOT an obsolete product!

    Caution & risk (liability): I suspect that's what is holding them back.... They're taking "baby steps." Allowing drivers to disable the nanny's anti-slip was one of them. Unfortunately in an SE (mine anyways) doing so makes very little (if any) difference with good sticky tires. I still don't know why it's not possible to change sprockets. Seems like everything else is reporting back via wheel spin speeds. All that would sacrifice is a touch of top end. And for those of us who don't care about going 120 (let alone 90 - not in this for tickets lol/col.)......

    FWIW: Gearing change (sprockets) seems plausible regardless of any associated "fly by wire" control system issues. ~ Because the aftermarket companies are now beginning to remap the ECM's.
    Last edited by TRLBLZR1; 11-13-2017 at 07:06 AM.
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  24. #49
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    Default 89 tooth sprocket on 2014 RT with factory 79 T. sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by TRLBLZR1 View Post
    I cannot imagine that BRP's plan is to NOT grow their market. That's how they satisfy their investors. That's how business works. That's how everything works. When it doesn't grow it's either a sign that somethings wrong, end of product life, or market saturation. Two things we can all agree on: The Spyder market is NOT saturated AND it's definitely NOT an obsolete product!

    Caution & risk (liability): I suspect that's what is holding them back.... They're taking "baby steps." Allowing drivers to disable the nanny's anti-slip was one of them. Unfortunately in an SE (mine anyways) doing so makes very little (if any) difference with good sticky tires. I still don't know why it's not possible to change sprockets. Seems like everything else is reporting back via wheel spin speeds. All that would sacrifice is a touch of top end. And for those of us who don't care about going 120 (let alone 90 - not in this for tickets lol/col.)......

    FWIW: Gearing change (sprockets) seems plausible regardless of any associated "fly by wire" control system issues. ~ Because the aftermarket companies are now beginning to remap the ECM's.



    I wouldn't mind a bit more power. I ride two up with a trailer and it struggles with headwinds and hills.

    These are two VERY good reasons of why the 1330 RT's could and should have the option of using the 89 tooth rear sprocket...So far, and as far as I know, No one has been successful with this change...I read only one post where one RT owner tried making it work without success...This individual was going to give this a second trail but they would never answer my PM's...Go here and read posts by GM=tech and others...http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...sprocket/page2) (I have been in contact with both of the ECM tuners and they both would like to get this working...I am willing to buy the parts and put the time and effort in this fix over the winter months and hopefully get it working...It would be really nice if BRP would step up with a belt, pulley kit and a reflash that would allow this to happen...Hopefully the aftermarket can crack this nut...I think this would be a very popular option for the RT's owners riding 2 up, pulling a trailer and riding mountain twisty roads...larryd

  25. #50
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryd View Post
    I wouldn't mind a bit more power. I ride two up with a trailer and it struggles with headwinds and hills.

    These are two VERY good reasons of why the 1330 RT's could and should have the option of using the 89 tooth rear sprocket...So far, and as far as I know, No one has been successful with this change...I read only one post where one RT owner tried making it work without success...This individual was going to give this a second trail but they would never answer my PM's...Go here and read posts by GM=tech and others...http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...sprocket/page2) (I have been in contact with both of the ECM tuners and they both would like to get this working...I am willing to buy the parts and put the time and effort in this fix over the winter months and hopefully get it working...It would be really nice if BRP would step up with a belt, pulley kit and a reflash that would allow this to happen...Hopefully the aftermarket can crack this nut...I think this would be a very popular option for the RT's owners riding 2 up, pulling a trailer and riding mountain twisty roads...larryd
    I wonder if BUDS MegaTech will allow the changes and / or disabling the Nanny? I know it allows it on the off road side with ATVs and SxSs.

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