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  1. #51
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    Default Things in the works

    I learned From Monster fuel one way to get around the gearing change the nanny won't allow. Something about splicing the sensor cable from the rear tire and tying it in with a front wheel sensor. They were doing this to be able to run the bike on a Dyno. This would tell the ECU all three tires are spinning equal and allow any gearing change. The fuel mapping is identical for the 89 or the 79 tooth sprocket but you would loose traction control and abs for the rear wheel as it is blinded. Only a theory I was told, but it makes sense??
    Right now monster fuel has a Daytona test bike and is working on a complete package turbo kit. Basically taking parts off of other BRP product lines and fitting them to the Can-Am. I was told that their ECU flashes which are netting about 25 ponies aren't really selling as hoped for. This is having a domino effect on funding for the turbo project. Seems Can-Am owners talk the performance talk but don't walk the performance walk even though there is 25 ponies for $350 with the ECU flash.
    Just in case people have missed it, here is a video of my test RT going from 0 to 68 mph, laying down about 25' of rubber in under 6 seconds. A Stock RT is only going 50 mph in the same time and distance. My NEW F3L hauls but with the flash but it took an exhaust change to get the results.
    https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/


    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    I wonder if BUDS MegaTech will allow the changes and / or disabling the Nanny? I know it allows it on the off road side with ATVs and SxSs.

    http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/brpbud...echlicencekey/

  2. #52
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    I am not spending $350 for only 25 ponies. I think most are fine just the way the Spyder is for now. JMO

    Now change the pricing and MAYBE you will get more people to take the Pony plunge .

  3. #53
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    Default $350.00 for 25 HP

    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    I am not spending $350 for only 25 ponies. I think most are fine just the way the Spyder is for now. JMO

    Now change the pricing and MAYBE you will get more people to take the Pony plunge .
    $350.00 for 25 HP is a bargain compared to anything else in today's market...I'll be going with this ECM update, and hopefully the 89 T. rear sprocket by spring...

    Thank You Dennis for the updated info...

    larryd

  4. #54
    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    I have to say, at least from my point of view, my RT has plenty of performance.
    I'm more into touring. My farkles include more lights and the sound system.
    If my RT accelerated to 60 MPH 3 seconds faster, that means I get to work 3 seconds earlier.
    I'm not passing judgement on those that want to hop up their Spyders.
    I'm merely adding another point of view that might explain why there are so few performance upgrades available.

    Just my opinion, I could be wrong. I'm sure someone on this forum will point out my error.
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  5. #55
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    I am not spending $350 for only 25 ponies. I think most are fine just the way the Spyder is for now. JMO

    Now change the pricing and MAYBE you will get more people to take the Pony plunge .
    $14 per horsepower ( if you REALLY can get 25 HP) is a really a good deal. Most other performance mods for the RT cost more and produce no power to speak of. I've hopped up every motor I've ever owned ( even the two snow blowers)

    This may be next

    Lew L
    Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.

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  6. #56
    Active Member Poseidon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis in Lodi View Post
    I learned From Monster fuel one way to get around the gearing change the nanny won't allow. Something about splicing the sensor cable from the rear tire and tying it in with a front wheel sensor. They were doing this to be able to run the bike on a Dyno. This would tell the ECU all three tires are spinning equal and allow any gearing change. The fuel mapping is identical for the 89 or the 79 tooth sprocket but you would loose traction control and abs for the rear wheel as it is blinded. Only a theory I was told, but it makes sense??
    Right now monster fuel has a Daytona test bike and is working on a complete package turbo kit. Basically taking parts off of other BRP product lines and fitting them to the Can-Am. I was told that their ECU flashes which are netting about 25 ponies aren't really selling as hoped for. This is having a domino effect on funding for the turbo project. Seems Can-Am owners talk the performance talk but don't walk the performance walk even though there is 25 ponies for $350 with the ECU flash.
    Just in case people have missed it, here is a video of my test RT going from 0 to 68 mph, laying down about 25' of rubber in under 6 seconds. A Stock RT is only going 50 mph in the same time and distance. My NEW F3L hauls but with the flash but it took an exhaust change to get the results.
    https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/
    So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.
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  7. #57
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    I am not spending $350 for only 25 ponies. I think most are fine just the way the Spyder is for now. JMO

    Now change the pricing and MAYBE you will get more people to take the Pony plunge .
    I am always looking for more power. And adding 20%+ more horsepower to a $25k+ machine for only $350 is a real bargain (If the gains are true). I come from (and still am) the ford performance family (numerous mustangs, including my roush and my ford lightning), and there are no gains to be had in that way (percentage wise), without going to nitrous. Which, is the one thing that I have never heard anyone mention in the spyder world.

    So, has anyone ever installed nitrous to to their spyder? I would really like to read their post
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  8. #58
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    Since some of you think its a bargain why not jump on this great deal and performance upgrade then

  9. #59
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    Since some of you think its a bargain why not jump on this great deal and performance upgrade then
    Even a bargain is only a bargain when it has been tried and proven. I am never one to have to (or want to) be the first guy on the block to try something.
    That seems to be the norm around here. That is why you have people paying $30k+ for a spyder that I will pick up in 4-5 months from a dealer for $24k or less. I am patient and will wait until something is proven, or a bargain, and then spend my money.
    But to each their own.
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  10. #60
    Very Active Member jaherbst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

    I think Ann has spoken for all of us. You might be hanging out with the wrong crowd if all your concerned with is power upgrades, turbo's, wheelie's, racing

    and lack of Libido! The Harley crowd may be more to your liking. I went through that phase of my life from 1951 till 2008. (and enjoyed every minute of it)



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  11. #61
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    Default The splice

    This past summer, I took my flashed RT to Canada for the purpose to get a Dyno test, figure out the speed restrictions and solve the gearing change. In my short time there I was 0 for 3 in those goals as I was on a vacation and didn't want my only ride tied up. We learned a current F3S or Daytona is needed for the project going forward to conduct reliable Dyno testing.
    In follow up conversation with Monster Fuel is where the splice comment came up. Blinding the rear wheel works with the splice for a gearing change but the rear wheel is no longer part of the ABS. So to me that does not seem like a solution??
    JCThorne posted his flash test results and he showed a 20 hp gain on his F3S. I can't find that post??
    To be honest, my 2016 totally stock F3L WITH the 89 tooth sprocket did not show ANY net gain in my time and distance testing and only modest gains when I tested exhaust combinations. This is being mirrored in comments from F3S owners. The flash was designed around the 79 tooth gearing and the 89 tooth is not befitting from the flash as much as the RT OBVIOUSLY DOES. 25' of rubber and 0 to 68 mph is proven on the video.
    In follow up conversations about this issue with Monster Fuel they, implied the 89 tooth gearing is being addressed with a different flash option.

    I AGREE WITH YOU, since they have a full time Daytona test bike, a Dyno shop less than an hour away, it's time to poop or get off the potty.
    Dennis


    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.

  12. #62
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis in Lodi View Post
    To be honest, my 2016 totally stock F3L WITH the 89 tooth sprocket did not show ANY net gain in my time and distance testing and only modest gains when I tested exhaust combinations. This is being mirrored in comments from F3S owners. The flash was designed around the 79 tooth gearing and the 89 tooth is not befitting from the flash as much as the RT OBVIOUSLY DOES. 25' of rubber and 0 to 68 mph is proven on the video.
    In follow up conversations about this issue with Monster Fuel they, implied the 89 tooth gearing is being addressed with a different flash option.
    And up until this post I was the only one voicing this result and everyone thought I was crazy! What is this flash option you speak of? The last time I spoke to Steve he made no mention of it!

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  13. #63
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew L View Post
    $14 per horsepower ( if you REALLY can get 25 HP) is a really a good deal. Most other performance mods for the RT cost more and produce no power to speak of. I've hopped up every motor I've ever owned ( even the two snow blowers)

    This may be next

    Lew L
    You must have a sick mind---I would know because I have the same problem---I even have the cheap tach on my riding lawn mower--I increased the maximum RPM. Has anyone seen my cutting blade that flew off?? It went South.
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  14. #64
    Very Active Member Lew L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    You must have a sick mind---I would know because I have the same problem---I even have the cheap tach on my riding lawn mower--I increased the maximum RPM. Has anyone seen my cutting blade that flew off?? It went South.
    Darrell

    I resemble that. Both snowblowers resemble much larger units ( in snow throwing capability ) A slight governor mod and rubber flaps added to the thrower made a HUGE difference.

    Now to the , haven't modded the motor yet but that is the question of this thread....................

    Lew L
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  15. #65
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Default Would this power make everyone happy??/

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ........ Google it ..... Mike
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...5-mph/2516457/

    Bill Warner (Fish Farmer) was one of the nicest quiet type guy--no ego problem--that I've ever met.. Running on the Loring Air Force decommissioned B2 bomber airstrip in N. Maine. 1/2" pavement difference in the 4 mile runway was perfect for land speed racing. Bill hit 311 mph in the 1.5 mi run but was trying hard for 300 mph in the one mile. 292 mph was his best on a prior run. Personally I loose the ability to process data above 175-190 mph--tach-shift points-track bad spots--cross wind bursts. It enables me to understand that most Formula 1 racers have Mensa IQ ratings. Land Speed Racing is a very high risk sport. Lucky for us the Spyders can't reach 50% of that speed.
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  16. #66
    Very Active Member garb55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.
    Speak for yourself
    I' m almost 71
    I always want more power
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.
    Sean,
    I've hear a just a few mods, not sure about the 1300's though. You can obviously change the air intake, exhaust, cat delete. In the earlier days some even played around with a juice box and PCV, not sure if it was an auto tune. But, whenever someone tried to find out the "actual" gains I never have read here that someone was able to Dyno to verify this Hp/Tq gains. So even with the ECU flash, which seems to be the current wave for increasing "hp/tq" until there is an actual way to Dyno, we wont know what the actual "performance" gains are.

    Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.
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  18. #68
    Very Active Member blacklightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M109Dreamer View Post
    Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.
    I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.
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  19. #69
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Default 3 wire into 1 pigtail jumper with push on connectors for dyno test

    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.
    I actually think it would be fairly easy. Locate the 3 wheel sensor wires going into the ECM label & cut the 3 wires---install a 3 wire into 1 wire pigtail jumpers with push on connectors for easy return to normal after the test.. Connect the rear sensor input & both of the floating front wheel input sensor wires & connect the output lead of the 3 to 1 input to the rear senor input on the ECM. Now the front wheels could be stationary--lifted up same height as rear on makeshift ramp or jack stands. That's the whole process. Reconnect cut wires with push on terminals back to original location after the dyno is finished. I'll find & prep the ECM wires & run a dyno this Spring-Summer.
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  20. #70
    Very Active Member M109Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacklightning View Post
    I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.
    If they did use the Dyno to get their numbers then there must be a way, might check with BRP and see if they will share how they were able to Dyno them. Be curious, wonder if its something they can deactivate with their software?
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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M109Dreamer View Post
    If they did use the Dyno to get their numbers then there must be a way, might check with BRP and see if they will share how they were able to Dyno them. Be curious, wonder if its something they can deactivate with their software?
    Must be in a different thread but IIRC JCThorne said there is a provision in BUDS to deactivate the wheel sensors. So being able to Dyno a Spyder would be pretty easy if you the BUDS software.

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  22. #72
    Very Active Member Jetfixer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    I actually think it would be fairly easy. Locate the 3 wheel sensor wires going into the ECM label & cut the 3 wires---install a 3 wire into 1 wire pigtail jumpers with push on connectors for easy return to normal after the test.. Connect the rear sensor input & both of the floating front wheel input sensor wires & connect the output lead of the 3 to 1 input to the rear senor input on the ECM. Now the front wheels could be stationary--lifted up same height as rear on makeshift ramp or jack stands. That's the whole process. Reconnect cut wires with push on terminals back to original location after the dyno is finished. I'll find & prep the ECM wires & run a dyno this Spring-Summer.
    Darrell
    The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.
    For clarification. I agree with the digital signal bit to VSS. However, it is not part of the CANbus. CANbus is the network for communicating among the various processors on the bike, i.e., VSS to TCM to ECM to cluster, and so on. It is not for the input signals to those processors.

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  24. #74
    Very Active Member Wildrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetfixer View Post
    The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.

    If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem?? Just my opinion from spending 20 yrs as an I/O & Mainframe National/International Tech Support Specialist. I just about lived on an airplane for 7 yrs repairing systems in 40+ States & England, France, Germany, & Mexico City. Technology units have really shrank in size but most of the concepts are fairly similar on the output side. I don't miss riding the NYC subway at 2AM-3AM with the weirdo's. When time, weather, & family health issues clear up I will locate the speed sensor wires entering the ECU--cut & splice & go for a ride & let you know the results of my theory. Currently it is 25 degrees in Westerville OH Worse case if the front wheel sensors attach to more than the ECU I will remove the front wheel sensors & splice all 3 sensor wires together at the ECU in lieu of just letting the front wheel sensor wires as an open floating. The ECM maybe sending different signal.wires to the Trans & VSS.
    Darrell
    Last edited by Wildrice; 11-23-2017 at 08:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildrice View Post
    If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem?? Just my opinion from spending 20 yrs as an I/O & Mainframe National/International Tech Support Specialist. I just about lived on an airplane for 7 yrs repairing systems in 40+ States & England, France, Germany, & Mexico City. Technology units have really shrank in size but most of the concepts are fairly similar on the output side. I don't miss riding the NYC subway at 2AM-3AM with the weirdo's. When time, weather, & family health issues clear up I will locate the speed sensor wires entering the ECU--cut & splice & go for a ride & let you know the results of my theory. Currently it is 25 degrees in Westerville OH Worse case if the front wheel sensors attach to more than the ECU I will remove the front wheel sensors & splice all 3 sensor wires together at the ECU in lieu of just letting the front wheel sensor wires as an open floating. The ECM maybe sending different signal.wires to the Trans & VSS.
    Darrell
    Had read on other forums that this was one way to disable anti-slip on older machines that did not have provisions to disable traction control.... (After the mod, traction control reporting 0 slip, all input reading off the front wheel.) But even without mod (me simply disabling t/c on my SE machine) there's not really enough power during warm weather (with sticky tires) to reliably get the tire loose/counter-steer. (So close, but not quite there. And I have no interest/won't hold the brake to build power from a stop, although that might work.)

    I hope someone comes up with a good flash for my machine that makes a difference. I'd be happy with 10 - 15% increase. That would make all the difference with traction control disabled. As it is now, 2/3 of the time I accelerate from a stop (even turning onto the road) with traction disabled in warm weather: Instead of the expected slip & counter-steer, all I'm left with is my inside front tire 6 inches off the ground. Definitely not the desired results!

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
    Last edited by TRLBLZR1; 11-24-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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