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  1. #26
    Active Member SpyderF3-s's Avatar
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    Default Second failure after 6000 miles

    The new dealer said that the shaft should have been replaced the first time because the sprocket will not fit tight and will move on the sprocket when accelerating or slowing down causing the sprocket to wear faster. This is a picture what it looks like this time.
    spyder sprocket.jpg
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  2. #27
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Went for a ride today and the tension adjustment from before kicked in so I Was 140 On the ground - did more loosening of the axle and took measurements of the axle position and I Have it down to 120 On the ground 100 in the air. Gonna go lower tomorrow and then tighten each adjuster about 1/4 turn when done to make sure the tightener is tight like Ron said. Here are 2 pictures of the socket- Does it have the Dreaded Rust So others may compare theirs?
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  3. #28
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    Went for a ride today and the tension adjustment from before kicked in so I Was 140 On the ground - did more loosening of the axle and took measurements of the axle position and I Have it down to 120 On the ground 100 in the air. Gonna go lower tomorrow and then tighten each adjuster about 1/4 turn when done to make sure the tightener is tight like Ron said. Here are 2 pictures of the socket- Does it have the Dreaded Rust So others may compare theirs?
    From the looks, you are OK. The one I diagnosed in Maggie Valley had red rust all over the front of it. Where the stamped area is on yours.

  4. #29
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Very different....

    Here are some shots of the 2012 RS which has a very different sprocket...
    20150630_121226.jpg though cleaned off you can see the red rust on the output shaft but splines were still good.
    20150630_121204.jpg also cleaned off and the splines were still good but no longer a tight fit and rocked on the shaft
    20150630_104832.jpg damage to the bolt which is really a one time use item
    20150630_104820.jpg most of the damage to the splines was at the outter tip as you can see. Center area still good but loose fitting so I changed the sprocket and bolt w/washer. the gold allens hold on a rather large heavy counter weight that I don't see on other models.

    This was caught in time a bit longer and it would have been ugly...just cause I coasted down the hill with everything off.....
    Gene and Ilana De Laney
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  5. #30
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default Sprocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    From the looks, you are OK. The one I diagnosed in Maggie Valley had red rust all over the front of it. Where the stamped area is on yours.
    I'm a little confused by some of the comments on this thread, what is the problem here, the sprocket, the bolt or the tranny main shaft? Is the sprocket made from cheap metal, (ie) aluminum or is it steel and is it incorrectly made so it doesn't fit right, is the bolt the wrong grade or is the main shaft made from the wrong steel. If it's a bad sprocket is there an after market one available. If the problem is from the bolt coming loose, besides loctite, a safety wired bolt would solve the problem of the bolt coming loose. Would reduced belt tension help prevent this issue? One last question, if this is a common issue is there a Service Bulletin out from BRP with a fix or a recall maybe? I'm a retired aircraft mechanic, so I believe in safety wire, its saved my ass a few times. I've pulled the sprocket cover on mine and it looks fine, I do plan on changing the bolt and installing one that I can safety wire, I'll have to drill a hole in the sprocket as well to do this. Sorry one more question, has Lamonster posted anything about this problem, I haven't seen anything? Thanks everyone

  6. #31
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    I'm a little confused by some of the comments on this thread, what is the problem here, the sprocket, the bolt or the tranny main shaft? Is the sprocket made from cheap metal, (ie) aluminum or is it steel and is it incorrectly made so it doesn't fit right, is the bolt the wrong grade or is the main shaft made from the wrong steel. If it's a bad sprocket is there an after market one available. If the problem is from the bolt coming loose, besides loctite, a safety wired bolt would solve the problem of the bolt coming loose. Would reduced belt tension help prevent this issue? One last question, if this is a common issue is there a Service Bulletin out from BRP with a fix or a recall maybe? I'm a retired aircraft mechanic, so I believe in safety wire, its saved my ass a few times. I've pulled the sprocket cover on mine and it looks fine, I do plan on changing the bolt and installing one that I can safety wire, I'll have to drill a hole in the sprocket as well to do this. Sorry one more question, has Lamonster posted anything about this problem, I haven't seen anything? Thanks everyone
    Here is all the links that I know of: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...archid=7132144

  7. #32
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    I don't know what the cause is these days but when Spyders were first released many had the very same issue. The cause then was inadequate torque applied to the retaining bolt on the assembly line. BRP issued a service bulletin (after the horse had bolted (pun intended) for many owners) to retorque the bolt to a higher spec and mark the head with a black X to show it had been done. I did mine when I got it new to 110ft lb (given the grade of bolt in question) at the time and it's still there.

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...t-BRP-Bulletin
    Last edited by Freddy; 10-18-2017 at 11:56 PM.
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  8. #33
    Very Active Member zuni's Avatar
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    Here are two previous threads on the issue:

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?96898-Front-Sprocket-Failure

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...Sprocket-AGAIN!

    Possible causes?:
    1. Sprocket - Not seeing a different part number but was told by a dealership that the part had been superseded.
    2. Bolt - Neither of mine came loose
    3. Belt Tension - Seems like more bikes would be having the problem
    4. Belt material - Too flexible?
    5. Vibration - I added the dampener after the first failure but it still happened again
    6. Alignment between front and rear sprocket - Was told there is no adjustment to align the two
    7. Build time - Thought maybe early model build but it seems to be happening to 2015 and 2016
    8. Model - Mostly F3 series though I have heard of at least 1 RT

    CJ JAX

  9. #34
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    I don't know what the cause is these days but when Spyders were first released many had the very same issue. The cause then was inadequate torque applied to the retaining bolt on the assembly line. BRP issued a service bulletin (after the horse had bolted (pun intended) for many owners) to retorque the bolt to a higher spec and mark the head with a black X to show it had been done. I did mine when I got it new to 110ft lb (given the grade of bolt in question) at the time and it's still there.

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...t-BRP-Bulletin
    I remember retorquing my 09 GS At the time and it was Fine when I traded in at 35,000 miles.
    It appears you really can,t tell with the F3 until you take the bolt out and view how the two Mesh?

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  10. #35
    Active Member cmarsala's Avatar
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    Default LINK

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Here is all the links that I know of: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...archid=7132144
    Sorry Roadster Renovations, the link you posted isn't working. I searched as much as I could find, but it seems that there is nothing posted to narrow down the problem, loose bolt, bad sprocket, tranny main shaft or belt vibration. To me it sounds like a combination of things. Belt vibration for one, torque on the bolt and heat. With the transmission getting hot and cooling it's allowing the bolt to loosen up and with the amount of belt tension and vibration causing the sprocket to move enough to allow it to wear and rust. I think a re-torque every 5K, a reduction in belt tension and the belt tensioner to minimize vibration everything should be fine. To me the tension seems awful high, I have 2 Harleys that are belt and the belt tension is no where as high as the Spyder, so I think belt tension is a big contributing cause factor. This is just my 2¢

  11. #36
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmarsala View Post
    Sorry Roadster Renovations, the link you posted isn't working. I searched as much as I could find, but it seems that there is nothing posted to narrow down the problem, loose bolt, bad sprocket, tranny main shaft or belt vibration. To me it sounds like a combination of things. Belt vibration for one, torque on the bolt and heat. With the transmission getting hot and cooling it's allowing the bolt to loosen up and with the amount of belt tension and vibration causing the sprocket to move enough to allow it to wear and rust. I think a re-torque every 5K, a reduction in belt tension and the belt tensioner to minimize vibration everything should be fine. To me the tension seems awful high, I have 2 Harleys that are belt and the belt tension is no where as high as the Spyder, so I think belt tension is a big contributing cause factor. This is just my 2¢
    Sorry about the link. It worked when I posted it. Since there are so many possible reasons, I suggest we look at the differences between the RT and the F3. The RT's are having hardly any problems, so my vote is the increased torque due to the larger rear sprocket. Also, if it was a heat issue from the trans, wouldn't the tupperware on the RT make it worse, and not better since the F3 has less and have more air flow?

  12. #37
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    On a side note.....My experience. 2015 RTL 2 up with a trailer, 30K miles on the machine. Prior to my purchase pretty consistent belt vibration 63-74 MPH. I installed the BRP damper shortly after purchase. We rode all day with no issues or warning. Pulled into the motel parking lot when it failed. It sounded like a Power drill ratchet when it failed. Had it flat bedded to the dealer the next day. I have the BRP best warranty. I ended up paying a bit more in deductibles than carrying a spare sprocket. Downtime was three weeks.
    Happy for the warranty in that if not caught and fixed immediately, you can damage the shaft spline and that requires engine removal and splitting the case, which can get very expensive.
    Last edited by PapaHotel; 12-16-2017 at 06:53 AM.

  13. #38
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    We have decided to purchase a spare sprocket and bolt and add it to the tool bag. Hope is it works like my umbrella, as long as I have it with me, I never need it.

    There does not seem to be any real way of checking for this problem much before it happens. Seems to go from slight wear to full failure in a very short distance. When it happens, if you have the part its a minor inconvenience. If not, its weeks of down time.

    Sprocket and bolt are less than $100. I've spent far more on less insurance.

    As Lamont sometimes says, no bike is perfect.

    I enjoy this one, warts and all.

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  14. #39
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    Default FRONT SPROCKET

    J C, my dealer called me today and my front sprocket was about to be toast. They called BRP and it will be covered by warranty. BRP even admitted that it seems to be an ongoing problem with the F3's. So I just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like BRP will cover the repair before complete failure if the dealer can show them the red rust and abnormal spline wear on the sprocket.
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  15. #40
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    J C, my dealer called me today and my front sprocket was about to be toast. They called BRP and it will be covered by warranty. BRP even admitted that it seems to be an ongoing problem with the F3's. So I just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like BRP will cover the repair before complete failure if the dealer can show them the red rust and abnormal spline wear on the sprocket.
    Makes sense to me. Less chance of shaft damage. Congrats!!

  16. #41
    Member bandreassen's Avatar
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    Default Sprocket issues

    BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.

  17. #42
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandreassen View Post
    BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.
    I agree! I lowered my belt tension from 140 OTG to 100 On the ground just to make sure I'm Not aggravating any situation. It actually rides real good at 100 and any tension vibrations just seem milder at highway speeds. I would advise anyone concerned to do the same?

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  18. #43
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandreassen View Post
    BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.

    Nothing has changed for 2017. BRP has not determined the cause or a fix yet. Until they do, a service bulletin cannot be issued. It will not likely be a recall as its not a safety related item.

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  19. #44
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    For the life of me, I do not understand this short life pulley problem. Was at the local HD dealer yesterday and upon talking with their service Mgr he stated that they have never replaced a front or rear pully due to any problems similar to what is being reported here.

    Same with the new Indians, similar belt drives have been used for years without this problem.

    What's up with that?
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  20. #45
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old Timer View Post
    For the life of me, I do not understand this short life pulley problem. Was at the local HD dealer yesterday and upon talking with their service Mgr he stated that they have never replaced a front or rear pully due to any problems similar to what is being reported here.

    Same with the new Indians, similar belt drives have been used for years without this problem.

    What's up with that?

    Indian and HD rear belts are far shorter than on the Spyder. Its the harmonics in the belt causing the impact loading in the front pulley. That much is known, what is not known is the failure path nor how best to cure it.

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  21. #46
    Very Active Member zuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Nothing has changed for 2017. BRP has not determined the cause or a fix yet. Until they do, a service bulletin cannot be issued. It will not likely be a recall as its not a safety related item.
    I agree with some but not all or that. Probably won't ever be a recall and nobody has an exact reason or fix yet so no service bulletin until they do. Not being a safety issue I'm not so sure. I can think of several instances where a failure could be catastrophic. Crossing a heavily traveled road during a break in traffic, trying to accelerate to merge into traffic on an Interstate. In my first failure I was turning out onto a road from my subdivision which was luckily fairly empty at the time. The second instance I was at a stop light behind some other ryders with traffic behind me. When the light changed everyone accelerated and moved forward but all I got was the ratcheting sound underneath my engine revving. Was almost rear ended! Wouldn't have been my fault but I still would have been in an accident. To date my dealer and BRP has been great and my time without my Spyder has been short. Also like you I still plan on enjoying the ryde just hopefully without repeated sprocket failures.

    CJ JAX

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Indian and HD rear belts are far shorter than on the Spyder. Its the harmonics in the belt causing the impact loading in the front pulley. That much is known, what is not known is the failure path nor how best to cure it.
    I agree 100%. My buddies Harley Tri-Glide is almost exactly 1/2 that of my F3s. My Ultra-Classic had the exact same belt as his bike and never a problem in the 30,000+ miles I put on it.

    Here is an interesting question.....
    Since you suggest "harmonics" play a role in the wear.....would the BRP idler reduce the wear?
    I have almost 18,000 miles on my F3s with the BRP idler and not a single problem to complaint about.

  23. #48
    Very Active Member zuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road-Kill View Post
    I agree 100%. My buddies Harley Tri-Glide is almost exactly 1/2 that of my F3s. My Ultra-Classic had the exact same belt as his bike and never a problem in the 30,000+ miles I put on it.

    Here is an interesting question.....
    Since you suggest "harmonics" play a role in the wear.....would the BRP idler reduce the wear?
    I have almost 18,000 miles on my F3s with the BRP idler and not a single problem to complaint about.
    It did nothing in my case. I wondered the same thing and had it installed after the first failure. Still it happened again. Both failures about 8K apart.

    CJ JAX

  24. #49
    Very Active Member ofdave's Avatar
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    after reading through this thread, I went and checked my front sprocket this afternoon.
    Only 2100 miles but I looked anyway.
    All is fine.
    I did notice a foam block (two actually) as a part of and on the back of the cover..
    Wonder what the purpose of those is?
    Noise reduction probably but what noise? trans or?
    Just curious.



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  25. #50
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if there are any common denominators Like-
    SE6 vs sm6?
    Hot Weather State VS Cooler weather?
    Heavier Person, 2 Up or Pulling trailer Vs Single Lighter rider?

    In CT I'm rarely more than 50 miles from home and AMA pays 35 miles flatbed anywhere you want. Many aren't So Fortunate.

    I think Heat and Belt tension must play some role?

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