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  1. #326
    Active Member SpyderCruiser's Avatar
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    I have been reading this thread with much interest. If I ever find red dust on my pulley I will use this product on the splines. http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor

    I have been using this product on my boat outdrive and other components for years. It is the only thing I have seen combat the electrolysis that occurs between stainless and aluminum in contact with salt water. This stuff is very gooey and stays were you put it.

    I believe with the PTFE to lube the splines and the gooeyness to prevent water from getting between the splines it would combat both issues brought up in this thread. What do you think?
    2015 RTL , Red

  2. #327
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderCruiser View Post
    I have been reading this thread with much interest. If I ever find red dust on my pulley I will use this product on the splines. http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor

    I have been using this product on my boat outdrive and other components for years. It is the only thing I have seen combat the electrolysis that occurs between stainless and aluminum in contact with salt water. This stuff is very gooey and stays were you put it.

    I believe with the PTFE to lube the splines and the gooeyness to prevent water from getting between the splines it would combat both issues brought up in this thread. What do you think?
    I think that might be a very good choice. Have used PTFE and that stuff works very well. Well worth giving it a try. One thing I am confident of is that all of our knowledge put together here will eventually solve this problem. Thanks for the input.

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    I think that might be a very good choice. Have used PTFE and that stuff works very well. Well worth giving it a try. One thing I am confident of is that all of our knowledge put together here will eventually solve this problem. Thanks for the input.
    I'd strongly recommend anyone considering this job to follow the manufacturer's recommendation of using loctite 660 on the splines. The sprocket splines come from the factory with Klueber paste which has proven ineffective *when coupled with a potentially under torqued fastener. Using some other type of lubricating medium with the addition of rtv will likely cause other issues. The bolt torque specs are for a dry bolt and putting rtv there WILL change the characteristics of bolt tension/torque relationship. There is no correlation that I have seen between water intrusion prior to failure, only after failure has begun and a clearance has opened up will water have any way in, short of dropping the spyder in a lake for an extended period of time.

    FWIW the spyder that had the sprocket installed incorrectly was installed with what appeared to be sleeve retaining loctite (green). This type breaks down at a higher temp than 660 and we still didn't have any issues. Short, focused application of heat around the hub of the socket with a cutting torch broke the bond and transferred almost no heat to the shaft. The seal was not damaged in any way. The bolt was not even close to being torqued properly but the loctite (even the incorrect variety) held the sprocket quite effectively.

  4. #329
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Glad to see this problem has gone away - for a coupla week anywho.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  5. #330
    Very Active Member den1953's Avatar
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    I'm not a Spyder owner yet but most motorcycles have a drive cushion in the rear hub of the back wheel which takes up some of the shock of shifting/downshifting, accelerating etc. I would think BRP would have such a drive dampener in the Spyder rear wheel hub. The transmission output shaft shouldn't have to be beaten by the sudden torque loads you're mentioning.

  6. #331
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by den1953 View Post
    I'm not a Spyder owner yet but most motorcycles have a drive cushion in the rear hub of the back wheel which takes up some of the shock of shifting/downshifting, accelerating etc. I would think BRP would have such a drive dampener in the Spyder rear wheel hub. The transmission output shaft shouldn't have to be beaten by the sudden torque loads you're mentioning.

    Spyder rear wheel DOES have a cush drive in the hub.

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  7. #332
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    I pulled my front sprocket cover off Friday and could find no red rust at all on the Daytona. 17,100 miles. I am going to wait on taking it apart until it starts showing wear, I have found that using a flashlight and a telescoping mirror, you can maneuver it to quickly inspect the front of the sprocket. Without any wear, the RTV would not fill in well enough.
    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

  8. #333
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    A couple of folks have hit it with a torque wrench (figuratively speaking) to see if the bolt tightens. Do you think you might do that, out of curiosity? On the early GS/RS issue the SB said to back it off a little before retorqueing. I read that some did not do that but the bolt come up some anyway. As I say, just curious.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  9. #334
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    A couple of folks have hit it with a torque wrench (figuratively speaking) to see if the bolt tightens. Do you think you might do that, out of curiosity? On the early GS/RS issue the SB said to back it off a little before retorqueing. I read that some did not do that but the bolt come up some anyway. As I say, just curious.
    Thought about that. Not going to disturb it. Since mine is a '17 I'm hoping that it has the harder compound. I can tell you this; with my weight and the way I have rode it I am very surprised to not see any wear. I will monitor it and plan on doing something if the red rust does ever show.

    Someone said something about the possibility that several venders for BRP may be making the pulleys. It could be possible that a batch was not tempered correctly to obtain the correct hardness. Since this has been a hit or miss situation on these, that could explain it.

    Since this thread has slowed down, I am hoping that BRP has figured out what the problem was and corrected it. No telling how many defective front pulleys are out there waiting to grenade, but time will tell.

  10. #335
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    Default Two questions where I am confused - Shifting and trailers

    I still have two questions.
    1. Everybody seems to agree that the clunking when shifting is bad. As I new driver I have heard it but unclear as to what causes it. Can somebody tell me how to avoid clunking?
    2. Will towing a trailer make this problem worse? Eventually I want to get a pop up trailer (no lectures about how after market trailers voids the warranty), and want to know if that is a bad idea with a F3-T.

    Thanks.

  11. #336
    Very Active Member ofdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorthern View Post
    I still have two questions.
    1. Everybody seems to agree that the clunking when shifting is bad. As I new driver I have heard it but unclear as to what causes it. Can somebody tell me how to avoid clunking?
    2. Will towing a trailer make this problem worse? Eventually I want to get a pop up trailer (no lectures about how after market trailers voids the warranty), and want to know if that is a bad idea with a F3-T.

    Thanks.
    you might get more worthwhile answers if you started a new thread on this topic
    many here with knowledge on the subject might not read this thread



    2017 F3, SM6-basic black, plain and simple

  12. #337
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorthern View Post
    I still have two questions.
    1. Everybody seems to agree that the clunking when shifting is bad. As I new driver I have heard it but unclear as to what causes it. Can somebody tell me how to avoid clunking?
    2. Will towing a trailer make this problem worse? Eventually I want to get a pop up trailer (no lectures about how after market trailers voids the warranty), and want to know if that is a bad idea with a F3-T.

    Thanks.
    There is really no way around "the clunk". It has to with the pressures in the transmission. When first starting our RT that has 48k on it, it takes a minute or two to build it's normal pressure in the transmission, and the shifting is softer until that happens.
    What I have been doing is apply the brake, release the parking brake, then ease up on the peddle so that the stop light switch is one, but no braking is present. This helps a little because the byke is not in a fixed position. It will actually jump slightly when going into gear.
    I guess the easiest way to think of it is hitting a chunk of steel hanging from a rope instead of setting it on the ground and then hitting it. My non-digreed engineering mind tells me this would have to help in reducing the shock.

  13. #338
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    My non-digreed engineering mind tells me this would have to help in reducing the shock.

    Engineers would call it reducing the intertial force of resistance. But I don't think it would make any difference, myself but hey, folks have gotta try something coz BRP don't seem to be.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  14. #339
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
    Engineers would call it reducing the intertial force of resistance. But I don't think it would make any difference, myself but hey, folks have gotta try something coz BRP don't seem to be.
    Yep, that sounds right.................on both counts.

  15. #340
    Active Member BRPcare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorthern View Post
    I still have two questions.
    1. Everybody seems to agree that the clunking when shifting is bad. As I new driver I have heard it but unclear as to what causes it. Can somebody tell me how to avoid clunking?
    2. Will towing a trailer make this problem worse? Eventually I want to get a pop up trailer (no lectures about how after market trailers voids the warranty), and want to know if that is a bad idea with a F3-T.

    Thanks.
    Hi gnorthern, If you have any questions regarding your Spyder, or think that anything might be wrong with it, it's best to visit your dealer. Also, if you have any questions, you can always email us at brp.care@brp.com or call us at 888-272-9222. Drive safely. Lise at BRP Care
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  16. #341
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    I pulled my front sprocket cover off Friday and could find no red rust at all on the Daytona. 17,100 miles. I am going to wait on taking it apart until it starts showing wear, I have found that using a flashlight and a telescoping mirror, you can maneuver it to quickly inspect the front of the sprocket. Without any wear, the RTV would not fill in well enough.
    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
    So you started this Thread crying wolf which cost me $120 plus a torque wrench I did not need ONLY to find out my 2015 F3 with 10,000 miles had No problem? I'm starting to believe my dealer when he says- "Don't believe everything you read on a forum?" At least in this case!

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  17. #342
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    So you started this Thread crying wolf which cost me $120 plus a torque wrench I did not need ONLY to find out my 2015 F3 with 10,000 miles had No problem? I'm starting to believe my dealer when he says- "Don't believe everything you read on a forum?" At least in this case!
    Not sure about the crying wolf part. It's kinda obvious you haven't followed the thread very close as several ryders have caught theirs before they failed. The reason I started it in the first place was due to seeing one fail on a 2016 F3T in Maggie Valley in October. It failed at a traffic light on a very busy 4 lane road and the gentleman was not in the best of shape to try and wrestle the 500 lb paperweight out of traffic and avoid getting hit by an unaware cager. Thank God he didn't get hit or generate a heart attack due to the stress and the strain.

    If for no other reason that this thread has helped one ryder (and it certainly has and will continue to do so as times go by) to avoid those circumstances (or worse) it has been worth every moment. I will also tell you that I am mindful of that fact and not any insensitive and uninformed comments that this forum has an overabundance of. In the several years I have been here I have seen many good people leave due to comments like this. Only reason I replied to this was to set the record straight.
    Oh, and if I were you I would hang onto your purchases, you might still need them at some point.

  18. #343
    Very Active Member Roadster Renovations's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations View Post
    Not sure about the crying wolf part. It's kinda obvious you haven't followed the thread very close as several ryders have caught theirs before they failed. The reason I started it in the first place was due to seeing one fail on a 2016 F3T in Maggie Valley in October. It failed at a traffic light on a very busy 4 lane road and the gentleman was not in the best of shape to try and wrestle the 500 lb paperweight out of traffic and avoid getting hit by an unaware cager. Thank God he didn't get hit or generate a heart attack due to the stress and the strain.

    If for no other reason that this thread has helped one ryder (and it certainly has and will continue to do so as times go by) to avoid those circumstances (or worse) it has been worth every moment. I will also tell you that I am mindful of that fact and not any insensitive and uninformed comments that this forum has an overabundance of. In the several years I have been here I have seen many good people leave due to comments like this. Only reason I replied to this was to set the record straight.
    Oh, and if I were you I would hang onto your purchases, you might still need them at some point.
    Original Post:
    Had a friend/customer loose his splines on his F3 Ltd at Spyder Adventures. We were able to verify by removing the plastic cover for the front sprocket. His did show the telltale rust around the front of the sprocket. I highly suggest that ryders periodically (ever month or so) pull that cover and look for the rust. Just looking under the byke is probably not good enough.
    What happens, the splines on the sprocket start throwing metal shavings and they appear as red rust. By pulling that cover (2 min job) it should help you to catch it before it goes completely out and you are stranded.
    My friend was very lucky and Blessed. Out of all the areas to ryde, many without cell phone reception, his grenaded (total part failure) right next to the Maggie Valley Inn at the stoplight!
    You might not be so lucky!
    I know this topic has been posted before, but to my knowledge no one has suggested pulling the inspection cover.[/QUOTE]

  19. #344
    Active Member CarolinaSpyderRyder's Avatar
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    Default Got my Spyder back

    Yesterday, I got my Spyder back. New front pulley, new counter weight. The dealership wanted me to pay at first, but I insisted they call BRP, It was covered by my BEST warranty. Just a public service announcement in case other dealers try to say they don't think this kind of thing is covered.
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  20. #345
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    So you started this Thread crying wolf which cost me $120 plus a torque wrench I did not need ONLY to find out my 2015 F3 with 10,000 miles had No problem? I'm starting to believe my dealer when he says- "Don't believe everything you read on a forum?" At least in this case!
    Sarge at some point your sprocket will probably fail. You just don’t have enough miles on yours yet. A good idea would be to check your sprocket every 5000 miles or so. If you see red rust get it to your dealer before it fails.
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  21. #346
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKMSPYDER View Post
    Sarge at some point your sprocket will probably fail. You just don’t have enough miles on yours yet. A good idea would be to check your sprocket every 5000 miles or so. If you see red rust get it to your dealer before it fails.
    I will buy a New Bolt once a year to check it and hopefully never have to use the sprocket?

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  22. #347
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    Everyone needs to relax.
    This is not one of those things to get upset over.
    Once every 5,000 miles simply remove the 3 bolts holding the front sprocket cover and take a peak.
    If you see "red dust" simply call your dealer and have it replaced.....its on the cheap side if not covered under warranty.
    5 minutes of your time every 5,000 miles is nothing to get into a twist over.

    I checked my sprocket, it was red dusted so my dealer replaced it....nice-n-easy-jack-a-peasy.

  23. #348
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge707 View Post
    So you started this Thread crying wolf which cost me $120 plus a torque wrench I did not need ONLY to find out my 2015 F3 with 10,000 miles had No problem? I'm starting to believe my dealer when he says- "Don't believe everything you read on a forum?" At least in this case!
    Sarge, I’m not sure how Doc starting this thread caused you to spend $120 plus a torque wrench, nor how it is “crying wolf”. I removed my cover plate as per Doc’s initial warning and suggestion and did nothing further as there was no tell tale red dust. Didn’t cost me a cent. I will continue to do the same every few months to check. Thanks Doc

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  24. #349
    Very Active Member den1953's Avatar
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    I take it from what I am reading that the drive belt is over-tightened from the factory and that reducing the tension and running an idler pulley is going to reduce or even eliminate this problem. There is also mentioning of the SE6 models "hammering" the splines. Does this mean the engagement is too abrupt or harsh?? I haven't yet bought an F3 but I am wondering if a manual shift model along with the tension reduction and idler changes would completely prevent this from being a problem for me when i do buy an F3.

  25. #350
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by den1953 View Post
    I take it from what I am reading that the drive belt is over-tightened from the factory and that reducing the tension and running an idler pulley is going to reduce or even eliminate this problem. There is also mentioning of the SE6 models "hammering" the splines. Does this mean the engagement is too abrupt or harsh?? I haven't yet bought an F3 but I am wondering if a manual shift model along with the tension reduction and idler changes would completely prevent this from being a problem for me when i do buy an F3.
    Well I have the 2015 sm6 and My Belt tension is Now down to 120 at 10,000 Miles and was never really high from the factory (160) I did have some red rust as my pictures showed BUT when I pulled the bolt the Sprocket Looked fine (Per Pictures posted)? I don't feel the need for any tensioner because the Minor vibration does Not Bother me at +or- 4,000 Rpms. Don't let this Thread stop you from buying a F3 But make sure the tension is at the New Level.
    We have seen A Picture of the older GS Sprocket with a lot of separation between the Sprocket and gear But I don,t recall any pictures of the F3 where the sprocket is extremely worn-Only reports of replacement? I showed my pictures- I would like people to show pictures of how their F3 Sprocket looked before replacement But have Not seen any. It would help to see how it decays?

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