Flag and National Anthem protests

[ARtraveler]

What part of Patriotism don't you understand?

[asp125]

If the flag and anthem are more important to you than so much else that is wrong with the country, you have your priorities mixed up. As a group of riders I often see the sentiment here "we don't care what you ride as long as you ride", and the wish that Spyder owners are inclusive rather than divisive. This thread proves otherwise. All this bitching and moaning does is to further divide forum members, something we need less of, not more.

Remember, opinions are like a$$h--es, everyone has one and they all stink.

[d.o.spyder-rts]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

An emotional subject for sure. Free to yell it, yes, probably not the most intelligent thing to yell out in public. I'm sure there would be some form of reprisal and you will probably be labeled a racist. As American citizens we have the right to protest. But as stated in another post it needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a manner that doesn't show disrespect to anyone or anything-flag included. Not easily accomplished. Dale

[ThreeWheels]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

Did you read my post ??
You are free to say what you will.
Others are free to react to it, as long as there is no violence.
If you behave like an idiot, people around you are free to treat you like an idiot.
If you act like a hero, people are free to treat you like a hero.
We also have the right to use the ignore button.
Yes, making a comment here was foolhardy.
I wonder if I can ignore the entire thread ??

[UtahPete]

I am proud of my country. I stand for the National Anthem. Enforce the rules as already written in the NFL handbook. What part of Patriotism don't you understand?

I love my country, but I'm not always proud of it. I stand for the national anthem when it's played, I even sing it as best I can. I am silent when others are reciting the pledge of allegiance to the flag, because it doesn't reflect my beliefs at all and sticks in my craw.

Am I unpatriotic? Should I leave the country rather than protest when it fails to live up to the ideals espoused in the constitution and on the statue of liberty?

If not for protesters, we would still be under British rule. If not for protesters, heretics would still be burned at the stake. Protests by the minority against abuses by the majority takes courage; it is as American and patriotic as we can get, I believe.

The really confusing thing to me is - what does any of this have to do with what happens at a football game; how is it possible to confuse the two? What would Ben Franklin have thought of all this I have to wonder...

[oldguyinTX]

I am staying out of this one.

[47ModelBrit]

.... The British flag is the standard of the monarch, and anti-monarchists don't revere it.....

Sorry but I have to inject a technical correction. The Union Jack is the national flag of the UK. The royal standard is totally different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...United_Kingdom

But yes, anti-monarchists of course don't like anything to do with the monarchy! Weren't there some like that around here a couple of hundred years ago or so! I think they mentioned them briefly when I was at school in England!!!!

[Motorcycledave]

I have been to many many other countries and as far as I am concerned
none of them except Canada even come close to being as good as the
good ole U.S.A.
go ahead travel the world and see for yourself, we may not be perfect
but we are way ahead of all the others, or anyone who does not stand for the flag
and or the national anthem, wants to burn the flag, are disrespectful of our country
in any way, can leave and go live in any of the other countries on earth.

[Firefly]

Can't believe this thread hasn't been yanked..... it clearly should be.

Freedom of speech (which is specifically between the government and citizens) doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Those claiming 'protesting needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a proper manner' obviously don't know what the word 'protest' means.

So just what IS the proper venue and why do you get to decide when and where it is appropriate for others to protest?

Anyone remember Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I thought the liberals were supposed to be the oversensitive 'snowflakes'... sure seems the other way around with people getting so bent over kneeling during a song.
And the idea this is somehow disrespectful to the military is beyond ridiculous....

NFL players generally didn't even leave the locker room during the anthem until 2009.
I personally have never understood playing the anthem at sporting events and frankly feel it degrades any meaning it ever had. Olympics? Sure.. makes sense. Government affairs, etc.... yup. Silly sporting events? Please.
I doubt most complaining about this ever put their nachos and beer down and stand during it.

Still think this entire thread is political and should be pulled......

[canamjhb]

If you don't love and respect this country, I will help you pack! Go somewhere else that offers the freedom, security, consideration and benefits that the US does! Yes, we cherish freedom of speech. We have that right. Remember, freedom was paid for with the blood of patriots! To dishonor those brave men and women who laid down their lives to protect America by some entertainer or athlete who has never contributed to our nation is crazy! If the protest is police brutality, find a venue that targets that. Disrespect my country, earn my scorn. You play a game. Play that game. Meanwhile, you play that game in the United States of America. So, the society that allows you to play that game for our entertainment expects you to respect that. Pretty simple. When an entire stadium boo's when the players disrespect the country, get a clue. Our nation is at war. There are forces of evil that would love to destroy our country. Now is not a great time to ignore that fact. Players, wake up!

I agree with every thing said here.... word for word. And I will, and have, defended others rights to have different opinions. (USMC 1966-1969)

[UtahPete]

I have been to many many other countries and as far as I am concerned none of them except Canada even come close to being as good as the good ole U.S.A. go ahead travel the world and see for yourself, we may not be perfect but we are way ahead of all the others, or anyone who does not stand for the flag and or the national anthem, wants to burn the flag, are disrespectful of our country in any way, can leave and go live in any of the other countries on earth.

We're not leaving just because you think we don't belong here, Dave. I'm sorry you feel so threatened by dissent. Sad.

[UtahPete]

It is in the NFL rules for all players to stand for the National Anthem.

Then, I guess the NFL should address that violation of their rules. But, it has nothing to do with patriotism or lack thereof, does it?

[UtahPete]

Wow! Now I have seen it all. Being dissed because I am Patriotic, proud of, and love my country. PS. That is not going to change either. Say what you will. I guess we have come a long way.

Expressing a different point of view isn't 'dissing' anyone. Why take it personally? We're discussing ideas, I thought.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Can't believe this thread hasn't been yanked..... it clearly should be.

Freedom of speech (which is specifically between the government and citizens) doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Those claiming 'protesting needs to be done in the proper venue and should be done in a proper manner' obviously don't know what the word 'protest' means.

So just what IS the proper venue and why do you get to decide when and where it is appropriate for others to protest?

Anyone remember Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I thought the liberals were supposed to be the oversensitive 'snowflakes'... sure seems the other way around with people getting so bent over kneeling during a song.
And the idea this is somehow disrespectful to the military is beyond ridiculous....

NFL players generally didn't even leave the locker room during the anthem until 2009.
I personally have never understood playing the anthem at sporting events and frankly feel it degrades any meaning it ever had. Olympics? Sure.. makes sense. Government affairs, etc.... yup. Silly sporting events? Please.
I doubt most complaining about this ever put their nachos and beer down and stand during it.

Still think this entire thread is political and should be pulled......

Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

Heroes!? Are you kidding, how many of todays black youth remember them or care, they are more interested in scoop doggie do or
ice anyone. They were booed and banned by the ioc after that disgraceful act. You may not agree or even trust our leaders and i don't but i still show respect to our country but not to our politicians who represent themselves.
Now if they want to stay on their knees then it better be from getting up from a tackle or in the locker room while another player is
changing.
SHOW RESPECT TO OUR COUNTRY
I do believe in the ideology of what the u.s. stands for

[classicvw]

so am i free to yell out "hey n***er get off your knee and show some respect" without any fear of reprisal from fans, players or
stadium?

Are you really asking that question or just feel like stirring the pot some more?

[classicvw]

It is in the NFL rules for all players to stand for the National Anthem.

It is not in the NFL 'rules'. It is NFL policy. Policies can be enforced, policies can be changed from day to day, or those in power can decide to not enforce a certain policy, which is what's happening in this instance.

[Firefly]

Tommie Smith and John Carlos protesting during the anthem at the Olympics in Mexico?
They were not so popular for doing that but are now considered heroes who stood up for black rights.

Heroes!? Are you kidding, how many of todays black youth remember them or care, they are more interested in scoop doggie do or
ice anyone. They were booed and banned by the ioc after that disgraceful act. You may not agree or even trust our leaders and i don't but i still show respect to our country but not to our politicians who represent themselves.
Now if they want to stay on their knees then it better be from getting up from a tackle or in the locker room while another player is
changing.
SHOW RESPECT TO OUR COUNTRY
I do believe in the ideology of what the u.s. stands for

Plenty of veiled racism in your comments. It's obvious you don't know much about black culture or you'd know that Tommie Smith and John Carlos are considered heroes. Just because they aren't seen that way in your perfect white world doesn't mean others don't see them that way.

Young black males are being systematically targeted and shot by police. You might be okay with that, but many of us are not.

The kneeling isn't disrespecting our country.... please.....it's a stupid football game and a pretty lame song as well.. guess that makes me unpatriotic....

[Firefly]

Those of you 'offended' by the kneeling....

A question.....

How upset did you get and how much did you protest and boycott over these actual violations of the flag code by these America haters? Or I guess many call them 'patriots'.

sarah-palin-flag-heels-600x450.jpgNugent.jpgkid_rock.jpg

[asp125]

If someone disrespects the flag etc, I give them the side eye and shake my head and move on. It doesn't affect my own patriotism what someone else thinks. I could care less, F*** 'em. Is your ego so fragile that you throw a fit if some stranger has a different point of view? The country is moving towards intolerance of dissent, free thought, and democracy if you ask me. Pretty soon even those rights that were fought for since the Boston Tea Party will be gone. That would be a sad day when we must all toe the line and obey our dear leader. You want a country that must act the same, think the same, believe the same? I have some suggestions: North Korea, Iran etc.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Are you really asking that question or just feel like stirring the pot some more?

yes i truly am asking that question, if others can say or do as they think even if it offends some shouldn't i have the same right
to express myself?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Plenty of veiled racism in your comments. It's obvious you don't know much about black culture or you'd know that Tommie Smith and John Carlos are considered heroes. Just because they aren't seen that way in your perfect white world doesn't mean others don't see them that way.

Young black males are being systematically targeted and shot by police. You might be okay with that, but many of us are not.

The kneeling isn't disrespecting our country.... please.....it's a stupid football game and a pretty lame song as well.. guess that makes me unpatriotic....

heroes by who? you ask 10 black people if they ever heard of those guys and i would be surprised if 5 actually did and 2 knew what
they did.
As for your "Young black males are being systematically targeted and shot by police" why don't you check statistics on who is shot
and killed by police before you make stupid, yes stupid ignorant comments. Oh by the way i don't think you are unpatriotic just an
a**h**e.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Please, all you guys were staying quite civil, until the last few posts. You want me to kill this thread? Keep it up.

[Firefly]

heroes by who? you ask 10 black people if they ever heard of those guys and i would be surprised if 5 actually did and 2 knew what
they did.
As for your "Young black males are being systematically targeted and shot by police" why don't you check statistics on who is shot
and killed by police before you make stupid, yes stupid ignorant comments. Oh by the way i don't think you are unpatriotic just an
a**h**e.

Wow.. classy.....

It's not about the numbers.... it's about the facts.. which I've researched plenty. As white males we generally don't worry when pulled over by cops that we'll be shot and killed. We don't generally get followed around a store for the color of our skin. We can walk into a bank dressed like a slob and still get treated well and a bank loan. The same cannot be said for many of our African American citizens.

Until you accept and understand your white privilege, there's no hope for you... and I'm guess you'll never accept the fact that is white privilege.

You win the Classy Spyder guy award today.....

[jcthorne]

Young black males are being systematically targeted and shot by police. You might be okay with that, but many of us are not.

Sorry but its the belief by many that this statement is true because it has been so widely broadcast by the mainstream media solely to stir this discontent that is the real basis of the the problem. Its NOT a true statement. Yes there are clashes between black males (and other minorities) and police that are a result of cultural and behavioral differences but to assume its the police that are systematically seeking out black males for murder is flat out wrong. Until both sides recognize this and work to correct the real cause, it will not get fixed.

Kneeling to disrespect the flag and the country you are supposed to be a part of only makes the fallacy grow.

I likely should never have clicked on this thread....

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Wow.. classy.....

It's not about the numbers.... it's about the facts.. which I've researched plenty. As white males we generally don't worry when pulled over by cops that we'll be shot and killed. We don't generally get followed around a store for the color of our skin. We can walk into a bank dressed like a slob and still get treated well and a bank loan. The same cannot be said for many of our African American citizens.

Until you accept and understand your white privilege, there's no hope for you... and I'm guess you'll never accept the fact that is white privilege.

You win the Classy Spyder guy award today.....

As an african american that did not grow up with your white privilege i really wish i knew what you know. perhaps unlike you i worked
for all i have, my wife & i paid for our wedding. now cut the crap and live in ny so you can experience the real world.
Pull up your pants, show the officer your license when requested and stop talking back so as to make him feel more comfortable
when he pulls you over for the broken tail light that you know you have had for the past 6 months which is the reason you don't have
a current inspection sticker.