Question about Hydroplaning

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Typically, so-called "summer tires" are made without regard to wet or slippery conditions. They are made to be next to slicks for as much "grab" as possible on dry paved roads.

Even among "all season" types there is a huge difference in slippery conditions between brands and versions.

And I am talking tires in general not just ones that could be used on Spyders.

R. R. - with all due respect your Theory about tires is not based on Fact .... In Racing like F-1 ... there are wet & dry tires which probably cost in excess of a $ 1000.00 EACH but they are not available for your Spyder or any other vehicle for use on U.S. roads and if you meet or exceed what I said in post .. above I'd be very interested in what you base your " theory " on ..... other than " Typically "....I'm not dissing you ... just trying to keep the facts correct, for all the new Spyder riders who are trying to learn from others here..... Thank you for your comments .....

[RinconRyder]

R. R. - with all due respect your Theory about tires is not based on Fact .... In Racing like F-1 ... there are wet & dry tires which probably cost in excess of a $ 1000.00 EACH but they are not available for your Spyder or any other vehicle for use on U.S. roads and if you meet or exceed what I said in post .. above I'd be very interested in what you base your " theory " on ..... other than " Typically "....I'm not dissing you ... just trying to keep the facts correct, for all the new Spyder riders who are trying to learn from others here..... Thank you for your comments .....

You are way off base with this response. Obviously I was not talking about any sort of racing tire let alone very specialized products used in the Formula 1 series.

However I did anticipate a response similar to this from you and have noticed over time that you tend to be very argumentative with others on this site no matter what the discussion. I have also noticed that you claim to be an expert on tires. Far be it from me to challenge such an expert.

The others on this site can take or leave my posts as they see fit but I don't have the time or the interest in arguing with you so please note that I have put you on ignore and will no longer converse with you on any subject.

Have a nice day.

[PistonBlown]

So my question is - is it normal for a Spyder to hydroplane with so little water? Is there something I can do minimize or keep this from happening?

Speaking from experience yes the Spyder aqua-planes easier than a bike or a car though I found aquaplaning was limited to the rear wheel. My assumption is that its a mix of the width of tire increasing the surface contact and the lack of weight over the rear wheel. Obviously some tires are better at 'shifting' water than others but the problem of large surface area and low weight are always going to be there.

No its not pleasant and even scary but 'Nanny' does a very good job of keeping you safe until you can slow down. The only real option I found though is to cut my speed down a lot. On one occasion I was doing a 24 hour event and got hit by what felt like vertical river about 70km from the finish, took me an hour and a half to do that last 70km - and my waterproofs gave up after the first 10 minutes. That felt like the longest hour and half of any motorbike journey:-)

One trick I have used to stop the back wheel spinning going up gravel roads on steep hills is to sit on the pillion seat to put more weight on the back wheel. However I am long limbed so I can still reach the bars, its not an option for most and wouldn't be a good idea on water/highways.

[Peteoz]

I have also noticed that you claim to be an expert on tires. Far be it from me to challenge such an expert.

.

Just as an aside, Rincon, Mike is called as an "expert witness" in accident investigation cases, so his claim as an expert is indeed a valid one.

Pete

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You are way off base with this response. Obviously I was not talking about any sort of racing tire let alone very specialized products used in the Formula 1 series.

However I did anticipate a response similar to this from you and have noticed over time that you tend to be very argumentative with others on this site no matter what the discussion. I have also noticed that you claim to be an expert on tires. Far be it from me to challenge such an expert.

The others on this site can take or leave my posts as they see fit but I don't have the time or the interest in arguing with you so please note that I have put you on ignore and will no longer converse with you on any subject.

Have a nice day.

Dear Mr. Rincon, Thank you for your Service ....and I'm sorry if my level of intelligence about tires upsets you .... My reference to Racing tires was intended to be an ANALOGY, I was pretty sure you would be able to understand that .... I guess I was WRONG ... As to my " claim " to be Expert , if I wasn't ...people would never have PAID me to be an EXPERT Witness in trials that involved TIRES .... My post on this Thread, was in No Way an attack on you. The wording I used supports this ... Unlike yours to me, which in my opinion, was beyond being Rude ... on this Post you should have PM'd me instead of attacking me in " public " ... which, imho was just " Grandstanding " on your part. People use Forums ( mostly Twitter ) to make " Vitriolic " statements because they feel insulated. There is ONE positive outcome here, by putting me on your Ignore List, you won't read any of my posts THAT ARE solely intended to help others to understand certain subjects of discussion. ANALOGY : if someone posts that the LUG should be Torqued to say 300 lbs , I and sure many, many others would give Correct info on this , so that the " poster " and others would not make this error.... Do you feel members here should refrain from doing this type of thing and let people " fall off the cliff " ( this was another Analogy ). There people here that I Do not Like , you weren't one of them ..... BUT YOU SURE ARE NOW ..... Good luck with your life, IMHO you need it ...... Love Mike

[Pirate looks at --]

You are way off base with this response. Obviously I was not talking about any sort of racing tire let alone very specialized products used in the Formula 1 series.

However I did anticipate a response similar to this from you and have noticed over time that you tend to be very argumentative with others on this site no matter what the discussion. I have also noticed that you claim to be an expert on tires. Far be it from me to challenge such an expert.

The others on this site can take or leave my posts as they see fit but I don't have the time or the interest in arguing with you so please note that I have put you on ignore and will no longer converse with you on any subject.

Have a nice day.

You are new here, Mike has been around for a long time, and while he can be a bit gruff from time to time, he offers sound advice to many on this list. He, and his expertise, is a real asset to this forum. I and others have learned a lot from what he has posted. Sadly, And it is probably because you are so NEW, I can't say the same for you. Your posts tend to be inflammatory, like this one. In the future, I am sure that all on this forum would appreciate a little more tact from you, and a little less venom!

[RinconRyder]

Just as an aside, Rincon, Mike is called as an "expert witness" in accident investigation cases, so his claim as an expert is indeed a valid one.

Pete

I don't care.

[fjray]

It's just an internet forum folks. There is no need to get your panties all wadded up cause we are all experts in our own mind. I myself have been paid to testify and provide expert testimony on automotive and marine subjects but that doesn't make me the absolute authority and I don't profess to be. We all can learn from others especially if our ears are open and our mouths / keyboard shut.

[RinconRyder]

You are new here, Mike has been around for a long time, and while he can be a bit gruff from time to time, he offers sound advice to many on this list. He, and his expertise, is a real asset to this forum. I and others have learned a lot from what he has posted. Sadly, And it is probably because you are so NEW, I can't say the same for you. Your posts tend to be inflammatory, like this one. In the future, I am sure that all on this forum would appreciate a little more tact from you, and a little less venom!

I may be new to the Spyder forum but I have a lifetime of experience with motorcycles and other vehicles including a variety of vehicles used for racing. I did not dispute Mike's opinion - only his attitude. His failure to respect other's opinions, including but not limited to mine, is what caused me to ignore him. My post was not inflammatory nor was it venomous. It was simply an explanation. If Mike desires respect from the forum population he needs to practice it himself.

Like many others on this forum my intent was to pass along my experience and knowledge on a subject I have more than a passing acquaintance.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It's just an internet forum folks. There is no need to get your panties all wadded up cause we are all experts in our own mind. I myself have been paid to testify and provide expert testimony on automotive and marine subjects but that doesn't make me the absolute authority and I don't profess to be. We all can learn from others especially if our ears are open and our mouths / keyboard shut.

fray , please Post any posts that states ...I CLAIMED I WAS " THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY " about tire related subjects or ANYTHING else for that matter. !!!! PS I put you on my Ignore List a long time ago !! your post here is tells me that was a good idea ..............Love Mike

[UtahPete]

You are new here, Mike has been around for a long time, and while he can be a bit gruff from time to time, he offers sound advice to many on this list. He, and his expertise, is a real asset to this forum. I and others have learned a lot from what he has posted. Sadly, And it is probably because you are so NEW, I can't say the same for you. Your posts tend to be inflammatory, like this one. In the future, I am sure that all on this forum would appreciate a little more tact from you, and a little less venom!

This is good advice. As a newbie to the forum, I made a lot of mistakes with my posts, mostly in taking others' posts personally. It's difficult sometimes to know when not to. So, I've learned (am still learning) not to take ANY of them personally, regardless.

So, RinCon, don't get caught up in these threads emotionally if you can help it and we will all benefit from your participation.

[Pirate looks at --]

fray , please Post that states that I CLAIMED I WAS " THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY " about tire related subjects or ANYTHING else for that matter. !!!! PS I put you on my Ignore List a long time ago !! your post here is tells me that was a good idea ..............Love Mike

Now if we can just get people to stop quoting people on our ignore list.....it will work that much better!

[WackyDan]

I just got back from a wonderful trip with my husband. We rode our bikes to Torrey UT then Salida CO and then home to Texas. All in all - a great trip.

My husband is an experienced rider - 40 plus years riding all kinds of motorcycles. He currently has a BMW RT. I have a 2016 Spyder F3S and have been riding for one year. We experienced some heavy downpours both going to Utah and heading home to Texas.

So on our way out, we got caught in a heavy downpour. Speed was slow on the highway due to the rain - I was going with the traffic and doing about 45-50 mph. A low spot in the road was coming up - bottom of a hill and I could see it was somewhat flooded. Cars going through were putting up lots of spray. There was heavy traffic also. My husband went through no problem. I slowed down and once I hit the water, I started to go sideways. I let off the throttle, never touched the brakes, steered into it and survived. Scared me to death.

Same thing happened on the way home, only the water was much less deep - maybe 1/4 - 1/2 inch of water in the road.

So my question is - is it normal for a Spyder to hydroplane with so little water? Is there something I can do minimize or keep this from happening?

Tires and tire wear are one thing. Lots of us have transitioned to car tires and found that with a few exceptions, car tires perform better in the rain (and dry) than the factory Kendas.

I've hydro planed a lot on the Spyder... Sometimes intentionally. I found most of the times it to be very predictable and if you simply steer the way you want to go and let off the throttle you end up there. The only scary time was when I was doing 65 on an interstate and hit a patch of standing water that should not have been there. That was spooky and my fault as my rear tire was due for replacement. On my current brand and model of tire it wouldn't have happened.

[fjray]

fray , please Post that states that I CLAIMED I WAS " THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY " about tire related subjects or ANYTHING else for that matter. !!!! PS I put you on my Ignore List a long time ago !! your post here is tells me that was a good idea ..............Love Mike

It seems your ignore list is defective. What I posted was a general statement that applies to any forum about any subject. No one person was mentioned or quoted so if you took offense to my post you better check the mirror in the morning to find the source of your discontent. XOXOXO. Bye now.

[Peteoz]

I don't care.

That's great, and I don't care that you don't care......WHAT? .....good to see that's resolved

Pete

[Peteoz]

Tires and tire wear are one thing. Lots of us have transitioned to car tires and found that with a few exceptions, car tires perform better in the rain (and dry) than the factory Kendas.

I've hydro planed a lot on the Spyder... Sometimes intentionally. I found most of the times it to be very predictable and if you simply steer the way you want to go and let off the throttle you end up there. The only scary time was when I was doing 65 on an interstate and hit a patch of standing water that should not have been there. That was spooky and my fault as my rear tire was due for replacement. On my current brand and model of tire it wouldn't have happened.

Thanks Dan. In my naivety, I assumed that once I put decent car tyres on, my chances of aquaplaning would be virtually nil. This thread has been invaluable and has greatly reduced my chances of embarrassment (and worse ! )

Pete

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It seems your ignore list is defective. What I posted was a general statement that applies to any forum about any subject. No one person was mentioned or quoted so if you took offense to my post you better check the mirror in the morning to find the source of your discontent. XOXOXO. Bye now.

...No it's not Defective ... it's just an easy way of remembering who I won't give any assistance too when they are seeking it ...... ( not mentioned ??? ) on this you are absolutely correct, but anyone who can count 2 + 2 = 4 could tell who your post was directed at ..... , also you forgot to tell Us in which post I made that claim ???? ...........Mike

[WackyDan]

Thanks Dan. In my naivety, I assumed that once I put decent car tyres on, my chances of aquaplaning would be virtually nil. This thread has been invaluable and has greatly reduced my chances of embarrassment (and worse ! )

Pete

I've run some stupid speeds in the rain with standing water. Done that with stock tires on all three and a mix of tires. I was always used to the rear kenda planing on me. Then I switched to a rear Kumho and it got better, but the Kumho was still terrible in the rain. Then I switched to a toyo Proxes and all the sudden the rear on a good tire was no longer planing, but that meant my Kenda rear tire hydroplaning early warning sensor was gone and now I could carry more speed which meant I got to experience my fronts hydroplaning. Once I went to Michelin RE-92's on the front the difference was amazing in combination with the Toyo.

Now... I'm not saying that good tires let you go faster in the rain that you should be going, but they do buy you a far better safety margin on your part when you do hit those roads with standing water.

[Easy Rider]

As you stated in another post, look who you are arguing with.

Sorry if I have intruded on a "good old boys club" with some fresh ideas and information.

The constant bickering when there is the least little disagreement certainly isn't pretty......or useful.

I stand by my statement that REDUCING tire pressures is exactly the WRONG thing to do lessen the likelihood of hydro-planing.

Of all the tires in the world, the least likely to ever hydro-plane is a racing bicycle tire: Hard as a rock and about an inch wide.

[Easy Rider]

In the future, I am sure that all on this forum would appreciate a little more tact from you, and a little less venom!

Well just in this thread alone, there are at least 3 people who have been attacked just for offering comments that seem just a little bit critical of your "seasoned expert in every word that he says".

Maybe you are shaking that finger in the wrong direction.

Just maybe.

[Wildrice]

There isn't any tire that won't hydroplane in over 1"+ of water above 40 mph on a Spyder unless it's a very short stretch of water.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Sorry if I have intruded on a "good old boys club" with some fresh ideas and information.

The constant bickering when there is the least little disagreement certainly isn't pretty......or useful.

I stand by my statement that REDUCING tire pressures is exactly the WRONG thing to do lessen the likelihood of hydro-planing..... .../......However if you meant your post as a JOKE .....it was very funny .... and Thanks for the chuckle .....

Of all the tires in the world, the least likely to ever hydro-plane is a racing bicycle tire: Hard as a rock and about an inch wide.

....My comment is in RED above ......Mike