What is an entry level Spyder?

[Rob Rodriguez]

There was some talk on one of the 2018 threads about entry level Spyders. This topic has been brushed upon a bit here and there over the years in other threads. It would be interesting to know what people think and entry level Spyder would be.

Maybe some stats like:

Engine, size, HP, etc?
Transmission, manual, automatic, 5 speed, etc?
Features, speedo only, no gauges at all, etc?
Chassis, use existing, use old model, completely new, no tupperware, etc?
Price Range?
Should BRP spend time developing an entry level model?

This could be fun

[UtahPete]

A naked bike with the 998, SM-5 transmission for $9k

[SteveLaoyster]

Check craigslist in your area. Search for spyder & you'll find a few of them.

[UtahPete]

Check craigslist in your area. Search for spyder & you'll find a few of them.

You mean previously owned Spyders I guess. Not exactly what the OP was asking (or what BRP wants to know).

[stevencovert]

A naked bike with the 998, SM-5 transmission for $9k

I'd buy one for the wifey for $9K

[SteveLaoyster]

You mean previously owned Spyders I guess. Not exactly what the OP was asking (or what BRP wants to know).

Well if the op meant new then they might as well consider the 1330 then. I'm thinking probably not many new 998's sitting at the dealers anymore.


Just looked at Imotorsports and they have one 2016 RS-S SE5 listed as new.

[Rob Rodriguez]

Well if the op meant new then they might as well consider the 1330 then. I'm thinking probably not many new 998's sitting at the dealers anymore.

Could be the 998, the 1330, 500, 2300, 6 cyclinder, turbo, 80cc 2 -stroke......could be anything. There is no right or wrong answer here. If BRP sat down with you at a table and said we want to build an entry level Spyder and we want you to tell us what an entry level Spyder means to you.......what would you tell them.

[UtahPete]

Well if the op meant new then they might as well consider the 1330 then. I'm thinking probably not many new 998's sitting at the dealers anymore. Just looked at Imotorsports and they have one 2016 RS-S SE5 listed as new.

I think you missed the whole point of the OP. He was asking what a new, entry-level Spyder would look like and at what price point, should BRP decide to make it.

[loisk]

There is no entry level spyder as part of the line - just the base model of each style.

Yes I wish there was a 650cc plain Jane entry level - in Australia this is the highest capacity allowable for new riders, and would really increase brp market share here. It is my guess that Asian sales (where lower cc is preferred) would make this an economic proposition for brp.

I could have sold dozens...

The biggest selling Harley here is their 500cc ...

[SteveLaoyster]

Could be the 998, the 1330, 500, 2300, 6 cyclinder, turbo, 80cc 2 -stroke......could be anything. There is no right or wrong answer here. If BRP sat down with you at a table and said we want to build an entry level Spyder and we want you to tell us what an entry level Spyder means to you.......what would you tell them.

Oh, I see the light! Yup, what UtahPete said then. But are they still making the 998?

I wonder if they could get one of the skidoo engines to work in a spyder? Anything is possible I guess.

I see where you are going with this Rob. You thinking BRP might come out with a starter spyder??

[Rob Rodriguez]

Oh, I see the light! Yup, what UtahPete said then. But are they still making the 998?

They are not but there are still some new models available (holdovers) with the 998.

[Bob Denman]

This topic can get pretty involved...
An entry level Spyder could be defined as one having less power, weight, and frills; than the standard models carry.
This might mean a bike with a shorter wheelbase, narrower track, less bodywork, a smaller engine, and a simpler drivetrain.
Could they build something like this?
You betcha!
They've already got the 600 ACE parallel twin in their snowmobile line-up. It's got 60 horsepower, and is hooked to a CVT transmission that includes reverse...
THAT sure sounds like a potential drivetrain to me!
They'd need to figure out a way to get the CVT's output routed to the rear wheel.
Again: this is already being done in their ATB and UTV line-ups!
(They use a shaft final drive!)
You could make the bike a bit narrower by simply using some shorter A-Arms, and/or mounting them right to the center of the framework.
the bike might not be shorter: you'll need room to package the fuel tank, the rear shock, the brake fluid reservoirs, and the electronics.
Make it either a single-seater, or one with the slightest hint of a pillion pad. Not carrying a passenger or a lot of cargo will make it simpler to calibrate the suspension.
The Frunk up front could be just a glorified glovebox: enough for paperwork and a bag lunch!
(Smaller than the F-3's little storage can.)
No radio, CB, cruise control, moveable windshield, I-Pod hookups, 12 volt power ports... No NUTHIN'!
And you could easily market it for under 10 grand!

But this is all just my opinion...

[UtahPete]

They've already got the 600 ACE parallel twin in their snowmobile line-up. It's got 60 horsepower, and is hooked to a CVT transmission that includes reverse...THAT sure sounds like a potential drivetrain to me! You could make the bike a bit narrower by simply using some shorter A-Arms, and/or mounting them right to the center of the framework. Make it either a single-seater, or one with the slightest hint of a pillion pad. Not carrying a passenger or a lot of cargo will make it simpler to calibrate the suspension. The Frunk up front could be just a glorified glovebox: enough for paperwork and a bag lunch! (Smaller than the F-3's little storage can.)
No radio, CB, cruise control, moveable windshield, I-Pod hookups, 12 volt power ports... No NUTHIN'! And you could easily market it for under 10 grand!

Sounds good. You listenin' BRP?

[cmbspyderrss]

I could write for days but this is my initial thoughts

What first has to be considered is that a Spyder is as we know a “niche” riding vehicle for a “niche” market, Earning bracket etc.
Due to how it is configured (Trike/3 wheeler, Snowmobile on wheels etc) the dollar figure for an “Entry Level” must be raised from what is considered the “Norm”. If the “Norm” is say $7000 then I would tack on a minimum of $2-2500 for a $10k max as already suggested.

Motor:
The “Entry Level” “Norm” is maybe a max 650cc 2 wheeler so as suggested a 600cc would be perfect. The most fun I have ever had on a 2 wheeler is from the smaller CC ones. As the saying goes I would rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Power to Weight
Part 1:
The “Entry Level” “Norm” weight for a 2-wheeler is 400-450lbs with an impressive power to weight ratio in almost any model. I would have to guess that 150-200lbs for a Trike configuration would be feasible but I am no engineer.
Part 2:
The Can-Am Spyder used a tremendous amount of Steel in its design. If a mix of Steel where needed and Aluminum where utilized then the 150-200lbs could be 75-150lbs increasing the PWR.
Part 3:
I love my Frunk but as mentioned not needed in an entry level. Keep the “Look” but make it so it doesn’t look like it needs a nose job further saving weight. It was also mentioned that it should be a single seat with a stupid small pillion for the occasional chick ride. Those would further reduce the weight gap.
Looks
Personally, I think the RS looks insanely Bad Arse and one of the reasons I bought it. One thing that i am sure puts off “Youngans” is the looks and the Power. Make it look smaller, lighter, faster and modern color wise then I think they would sell. As the saying goes I would rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Entry Level #1
Price: $8-10k
Motor: 650cc Max – 75hp Max – Broad TQ but more on the low end
Six Speed
Manual Shift or even a quick shifter, Front Brake Lever
Single Seater
More Color Choices in the Tupperware, rims etc.
Traction control and ABS only. No Nanny stuff.
Entry Level #2
Price: $10-12k
Motor: 750cc Max – 120hp Max – Broad TQ but more on the low end
Six Speed
Manual Shift or even a quick shifter, Front Brake Lever
Single Seater
More Color Choices in the Tupperware, rims etc.
Traction control and ABS only. No Nanny stuff.

[Scotts8826]

Isn't an entry level Spyder the first one you buy?

[blacklightning]

Isn't an entry level Spyder the first one you buy?

BRP does not have any desire to market a $10k spyder. As for an entry level spyder, the closest that you will get to that now will be a standard F3 SM6, with the lowered horsepowered 1330.
I have come across a base model, left over F3 for around the $12k range. That is as close as we will ever get.

[UtahPete]

Entry Level #1
Price: $8-10k
Motor: 650cc Max – 75hp Max – Broad TQ but more on the low end
Six Speed
Manual Shift or even a quick shifter, Front Brake Lever
Single Seater
More Color Choices in the Tupperware, rims etc.
Traction control and ABS only. No Nanny stuff.
Entry Level #2
Price: $10-12k
Motor: 750cc Max – 120hp Max – Broad TQ but more on the low end
Six Speed
Manual Shift or even a quick shifter, Front Brake Lever
Single Seater
More Color Choices in the Tupperware, rims etc.
Traction control and ABS only. No Nanny stuff.

I think the 'nanny' is the VSS and ABS and I don't think BRP would make and sell a Spyder without them. The DESS could be eliminated though in an entry level bike.

[UtahPete]

BRP does not have any desire to market a $10k spyder. As for an entry level spyder, the closest that you will get to that now will be a standard F3 SM6, with the lowered horsepowered 1330. I have come across a base model, left over F3 for around the $12k range. That is as close as we will ever get.

You seem pretty sure of that...?

[blacklightning]

You seem pretty sure of that...?

I do. There best chance to have an entry level spyder would have been to kept the RS around. It also would have been something for the younger, sport bike riding crowd. But they decided not to do that. Instead they went with the F3 series. Now, I am not a hater, as I own a F3T, and have owned a RSS and a RT in the past. But if I was a younger person, and wanted a spyder, the F3 would not have been my choice. I would be looking for a RS or RSS without question. There are also a lot of others out there that feel that same way.

[ruralgirl]

This is like asking for an entry level Corvette or Rolls Royce. A Spyder is a unique species. Strip it down to sell for half or a third its current price, and it's no longer a Spyder. Apparently, the lower priced models weren't doing well anyway, or BRP wouldn't have discontinued them. Let the would-be competitors' cheap copies serve as entry levelers.

[asp125]

Then again.. there's the cheap Chinese knockoff...

[cmbspyderrss]

I am sure many people thought they would never see a sub $10k BMW entry level bike either. The BMW G310R proves it can be done IF you want to.

[UtahPete]

I do. There best chance to have an entry level spyder would have been to kept the RS around. It also would have been something for the younger, sport bike riding crowd. But they decided not to do that. Instead they went with the F3 series. Now, I am not a hater, as I own a F3T, and have owned a RSS and a RT in the past. But if I was a younger person, and wanted a spyder, the F3 would not have been my choice. I would be looking for a RS or RSS without question. There are also a lot of others out there that feel that same way.

Maybe they could bring them back ...

[Pirate looks at --]

I really don't know much, but having spent some time with BRP reps......they DO have a desire to market and sell an entry level Spyder. This was a topic of discussion with the head of design and innovation last summer and I am pretty sure that it will be on the market in 2019! I think Bob is on to something with the 600 cc motor! It will be fun to see!

[blacklightning]

I really don't know much, but having spent some time with BRP reps......they DO have a desire to market and sell an entry level Spyder. This was a topic of discussion with the head of design and innovation last summer and I am pretty sure that it will be on the market in 2019! I think Bob is on to something with the 600 cc motor! It will be fun to see!

I hope you are correct. As for me, I think anything less than the 998 V-twin would be too weak. That engine was very nice in my 2012 RSS, and i would buy another in a minute. It had great power, but I wouldn't want any less.