How to gear up to ride comfortably and safely in really hot weather?

[Easy Rider]

Cover up, ..................

I hope this helps a little

Excellent information. Thank you.

BUT the "cover up" phrase of your summary is a good example of what causes the mis-understanding.

"Cover up" does NOT mean to also severely restrict the air flow to the body.
Air flow must be maintained......in most reasonable situations.

It is also true that past a certain point.....maybe 100F ambient......that simple sweat and air flow can NOT be counted on to keep you at a safe temperature. It just won't. STOP riding and get out of the heat or get some "supplemental" cooling.

[UtahPete]

It is also true that past a certain point.....maybe 100F ambient......that simple sweat and air flow can NOT be counted on to keep you at a safe temperature. It just won't. STOP riding and get out of the heat or get some "supplemental" cooling.

I think we need to recognize the difference between humid and arid environments. In extreme heat, the strategy for maintaining a safe body temperature is different for each situation I think.

[Bob Denman]

You guys are ALL over-thinking this...

Airflow and proper hydration: That's all that you need!

[UtahPete]

You guys are ALL over-thinking this...Airflow and proper hydration: That's all that you need!

How much 100+ riding have you done, Bob? Particularly in the desert.

[Bob Denman]

If you can't stand the heat...

We've ridden with the temperatures up around 105 degrees. No problem!

[Pirate looks at --]

Just remember, that when the air temperature is warmer than you are, air flow will no longer cool you off it will warm you up. You can provide some nice wet evaporative cooling if you can but remember it will only cool you while it is wet, ant at 100+ it won't be wet long. 100+ stop for water a lot, grab some shade when you can, and keep your body covered, that 98.6 is what you want to maintain so you need a barrier between you and that heat! I believe that the recommendation is 1 liter of water every hour. Anyway how is that snow back east!

[Pirate looks at --]

Actually, JC, LD Comfort, who are a well known and reputable US manufacturer of cooling and heating gear agree with Pirate. They recommend you do NOT use a mesh jacket over their wet undergear, but use a normal jacket with a couple of vents open for the best cooling effect. I doubt they would leave themselves open to litigation by offering wrong and dangerous misinformation. The jury might still be out on that one.

Pete

That is the great thing about science, you may not agree with it, but it is still right!

[Lew L]

My method is:

1. lighter colored jacket and vented gloves
2. WATER at the handle bar to sip often
3. stop about each hour to fill up water and get some shade
4. a cooling vest , refreshed at the stops
5. Always have extra water!!!!!!
6. A vented windshield ( with adjustable vent control)


Seems like all our riding is done in the summer out west so the above steps work GREAT for us.



I'll use the above when I visit UtahPete and tour the south west this summer. Used it last summer and it worked perfect .

Lew L

[johnsimion]

You guys are ALL over-thinking this...

Airflow and proper hydration: That's all that you need!

I've been watching this thread closely because I do live in the hot desert. I agree with Bob's simple but common sense advice - although I'd add that it's important to keep body parts covered and out of the sun.

One thing that I think makes a huge difference is how you're using your Spyder. If you go on loooong trips in 105 degree temps, then maybe Bob's advice isn't good enough. For me, it is. Of course, I'm a guy who doesn't make all-day rides and cross-country rides anyway. I prefer just to get out of the house for a while, see some nice scenery, go look at other people's houses, carve some donuts, run errands, go have a coffee, etc. Riding more than a couple of hours each direction just isn't really my thing, partly because there are scenic roads nearby and once you get an hour or so out of Vegas, the roads turn into long boring straight lines. So, if I have to go on long trips in the heat, I take an air-conditioned car. Others have different preferences and I totally respect that, so maybe some of these suggestions are more applicable to them.

[UtahPete]

I've been watching this thread closely because I do live in the hot desert. I agree with Bob's simple but common sense advice - although I'd add that it's important to keep body parts covered and out of the sun. One thing that I think makes a huge difference is how you're using your Spyder. If you go on loooong trips in 105 degree temps, then maybe Bob's advice isn't good enough.

You're right John. I bought the two Spyders to do long-distance touring mostly. We rarely use it to bop around town; too much of a hassle with helmets, limited luggage, etc for shopping trips, particularly in the hot weather - that's when we prefer an air-conditioned car.

So, to clarify, this thread is for long-distance touring in hot weather. In the desert, avoiding riding in the heat and catching some shade is not really an option.

BTW Lew, that thing about finding shade - we have driven hours at a time without there being any shade (no trees for sure and no convenient gas station canopy to hide under. That's the reality in the Southwest (Southern Utah, Southern Nevada, most of Arizona and much of New Mexico. I've considered carrying a large sunbrella for just that reason!

[ARtraveler]

What about the bugs? Do you just outrun them and hope you don't have to stop?

Mostly, the windshield stops them dead in their tracks. Spllllllaaaaattt!. I ride with the WS in the lowest position when it gets hot. I get a little cooling breeze that way. There are more bugs on the helmet though.

[Easy Rider]

I think we need to recognize the difference between humid and arid environments. In extreme heat, the strategy for maintaining a safe body temperature is different for each situation I think.

Given equal temperatures, you get more evaporative cooling quicker when the humidity is low so slightly less air flow is needed.
That isn't necessarily a good thing, though, as really dry air can SUCK YOU DRY rapidly without you feeling excessively hot until it is too late.

High humidity requires more air flow to achieve sufficient cooling.

In both cases, even if you properly adjust for the relative humidity, if the heat is EXTREME the amount of sweat required to keep "cool" can be more than your body can produce for very long.

[LeftCoast]

Not trying to revive any discord on the topic of hydration but I ran across this article today and thought I'd share it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/healt...ess/index.html

Obviously as per the article alcohol is not a hydrating drink, just some are less dehydrating than others

[UtahPete]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/healt...ess/index.html

Interesting;

The researchers found that while water -- both still and sparkling --does a pretty good job of quickly hydrating the body, beverages with a little bit of sugar, fat or protein do an even better job of keeping us hydrated for longer. The reason has to do with how our bodies respond to beverages, according to Ronald Maughan, a professor at St. Andrews' School of Medicine and the study's author. One factor is the volume of a given drink: The more you drink, the faster the drink empties from your stomach and gets absorbed into the bloodstream, where it can dilute the body's fluids and hydrate you. The other factor affecting how well a beverage hydrates relates to a drink's nutrient composition. For example, milk was found to be even more hydrating than plain water because it contains the sugar lactose, some protein and some fat, all of which help to slow the emptying of fluid from the stomach and keep hydration happening over a longer period of time. Milk also has sodium, which acts like a sponge and holds onto water in the body and results in less urine produced.

[LeftCoast]

I guess that milk was better than water was the eye opener for me. Someone pass the cow!

[FalconAF]

OK, I've been away for a while and was catching up on the forum posts. I ran across this thread. And I'm probably gonna p*ss some people off here with "my" reply to it. But...

There is a LOT of VERY BAD and DANGEROUS information being passed on in this thread. For instance, ANY reference to your CORE BODY TEMPERATURE of 98.6 degrees being "The Temperature" you need to be concerned about as far as the OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE is concerned is completely false. It's your SKIN temperature of 93 degrees that matters. Any outside air that is passing over you SKIN that is warmer than your SKIN temperature will cause an increase in your core body temperature. So, you need to be doing proper cooling beginning at an outside air temperature of 93 degrees...NOT 98.6.

Mesh is NOT the SAFE solution in cases when the outside air temperature exceeds 93 degrees. The amount of air it allows to pass over your body will cause you to "sweat out" in a ridiculously short period of time. And even if you use soaked wicking materials under the mesh, they will dry out exceptionally fast. And in many cases, you would NOT be able to consume enough fluids during that time to compensate your body fluid loss without risking OTHER dangers that could quickly kill you too. Do a Google search for "hyponatremia" if you want to see one (more commonly referred to as "water poisoning"). What you want to do is NOT wear mesh, but STILL use cooling techniques that will create a SEPARATE ENVIRONMENT INSIDE a MOSTLY CLOSED riding jacket or full body suit. You open a SMALL vent on the jacket/suit that will allow JUST ENOUGH air inside the suit to maintain an evaporative cooling environment INSIDE THE SUIT, and you don't want to have that environment immediately tossed out the back of the suit through large open vents. You regulate the interior environment by having just enough incoming air/exit vent air volume to keep the cooler air inside the suit as long as possible and replaced in a timely manner with new incoming air. When this is done in combination with something like an LD Comfort LONG SLEEVE wicking shirt, the result is the water on the shirt lasts a LOT LONGER time before evaporating, and it significantly REDUCES the amount of your OWN body moisture from sweating out of you. This also significantly reduces the amount of fluid INTAKE you must "drink" to replace your own sweated-out body fluid. A full mesh covering (jacket or full length suit) will just WASTE the cool air you create underneath it when it immediately gets vented away again from your body. In a nutshell, you want to create the equivalent of the inside of an astronaut's space suit that will maintain a separate cooler environment inside the suit.

Here is the SCIENCE of it.

http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/i..._62-66_hot.pdf

It was written long ago by a medical doctor who is/was also a long distance rider. It works. I used (and was taught) the same techniques in advanced survival training during my 26 years in the military (there's a reason the first thing you should do when in an environment over 93F degrees is COVER YOUR EXPOSED SKIN to prevent the higher temperature ambient air from blowing over it...it's the same reason you see people living in the Middle East, etc, wearing full length robes when outside in 100+ degree temps). I routinely ride in Las Vegas, Nevada, and the desert southwest during the summer wearing a full length Roadcrafter Aerostich suit using the methods explained in the article, and can do it in temperatures ABOVE 110F. I have done it in temps as high as 116F riding through Baker, CA on I-15 at Interstate speeds of 75+ MPH. I also have over 90,000 motorcycle miles riding all over the U.S. in much higher humidity areas like Florida and the Gulf Coast in high summer temps. It works there too. Yes, the cooling effect will not be as great as in low humidity areas like the desert southwest, but it DOES STILL WORK. Mesh can get you killed trying that if you get "behind the power curve" and dehydrate yourself to a critical point before you realize it is happening.

Please...PLEASE...do not confuse OPINIONS with FACTS. The science does NOT lie about topics like this. People are entitled to their own opinions, but they are NOT entitled to their own facts. Do not teach opinions as facts, especially when untrue information could get someone killed. Please read the article and understand the very dangerous risks of using mesh riding gear above 93F.

Respectfully submitted. And if you don't agree with any of it, that's fine too. Just please quit teaching opinions as factual information when it isn't. People's lives may be at stake.

[UtahPete]

There is a LOT of VERY BAD and DANGEROUS information being passed on in this thread. For instance, ANY reference to your CORE BODY TEMPERATURE of 98.6 degrees being "The Temperature" you need to be concerned about as far as the OUTSIDE AIR TEMPERATURE is concerned is completely false. It's your SKIN temperature of 93 degrees that matters. Any outside air that is passing over you SKIN that is warmer than your SKIN temperature will cause an increase in your core body temperature. So, you need to be doing proper cooling beginning at an outside air temperature of 93 degrees...NOT 98.6.

Mesh is NOT the SAFE solution in cases when the outside air temperature exceeds 93 degrees. The amount of air it allows to pass over your body will cause you to "sweat out" in a ridiculously short period of time. And even if you use soaked wicking materials under the mesh, they will dry out exceptionally fast. And in many cases, you would NOT be able to consume enough fluids during that time to compensate your body fluid loss without risking OTHER dangers that could quickly kill you too. Do a Google search for "hyponatremia" if you want to see one (more commonly referred to as "water poisoning").

What you want to do is NOT wear mesh, but STILL use cooling techniques that will create a SEPARATE ENVIRONMENT INSIDE a closed riding jacket or full body suit. You open a SMALL vent on the jacket/suit that will allow just enough air inside the suit to maintain an evaporative cooling environment, and you don't want to have that environment immediately tossed out the back of the suit through large open vents. You regulate the interior environment by having just enough incoming air/exit vent air volume to keep the cooler air inside the suit as long as possible and replaced in a timely manner with new incoming air.

Here is the SCIENCE of it. http://www.ironbutt.com/ibmagazine/i..._62-66_hot.pdf

It was written long ago by a medical doctor who is/was also a long distance rider. It works. I used (and was taught) the same techniques in advanced survival training during my 26 years in the military (there's a reason the first thing you should do when in an environment over 93F degrees is COVER YOUR EXPOSED SKIN to prevent the higher temperature ambient air from blowing over it...it's the same reason you see people living in the Middle East, etc, wearing full length robes when outside in 100+ degree temps).

I routinely ride in Las Vegas, Nevada, and the desert southwest during the summer wearing a full length Roadcrafter Aerostich suit using the methods explained in the article, and can do it in temperatures ABOVE 110F. I have done it in temps as high as 116F riding through Baker, CA on I-15 at Interstate speeds of 75+ MPH.

I also have over 90,000 motorcycle miles riding all over the U.S. in much higher humidity areas like Florida and the Gulf Coast in high summer temps. It works there too. Yes, the cooling effect will not be as great as in low humidity areas like the desert southwest, but it DOES STILL WORK.

Mesh can get you killed trying that if you get "behind the power curve" and dehydrate yourself to a critical point before you realize it is happening.

I'm not sure what bad and dangerous information you are referring to, except maybe the ambient temperature above which proactive cooling techniques need to be employed.

I think we're pretty much in agreement that mesh clothing is the WRONG solution for arid climates for the reason you state; too much airflow over the skin will dry the skin out and reduce its ability to cool the blood from evaporative processses. Ditto if a cooling vest is being used; it will dry out too quickly and become a useless thermal barrier if hot, dry air is allowed to blow over it.

That's why I favor wearing a white long-sleeved fishing shirt buttoned to the neck, white long synthetic pants and white over-the-calf synthetic socks with high riding boots for hot desert riding. I think armored, heavy, dark motorcycle clothing is not only unnecessary but counter-productive for Spyder riders. My opinion and my choice only because to me over-heating is far more dangerous and likely than the possibility of injury from falling off the bike.

I can't speak to humid conditions at all, but those who do ride in such seem to think that more air flow over the skin is called for, which seems logical (and supported by your hypothesis).

And, now we 'know' from recent research that milk hydrates better and longer than water. All good info to factor in when designing a personal strategy for hot, desert riding.

[FalconAF]

"Seems logical" may not be the same as "is factual". But like I said, I personally don't care if anybody believes the science or not. They can ride naked for 30 minutes across town in 100 degree heat if they want to.

But I was also an instructor in the Air Force for over 7 of my 26 years there. I have 2 different (but related) college degrees in "teaching". In any professional teaching environment, the "biggest sin" is to teach "Erroneous Information"...something that is NOT true.

If someone wants to risk their own safety by riding using opinions instead of facts, so be it. But a forum environment like this should not allow "erroneous information" to be taught to riders seeking factual information. Especially when it comes to riding safety.

EDIT: Just for clarification, I posted the article so people that WOULD like to learn the FACTS can do so. If someone wants to hang on to other opinions after reading the facts, I'm not gonna get mad at them. It's their call. But they should not be "teaching" those opinions as factual information.

[UtahPete]

"Seems logical" may not be the same as "is factual". But like I said, I personally don't care if anybody believes the science or not. They can ride naked for 30 minutes across town in 100 degree heat if they want to.

I appreciate your insights and I like your avatar cat wearing a melon on his melon. See my other thread on helmet ventilation and cooling; I'll bet you have some thoughts about that too.

[ChicagoSpyder]

Lots of entertaining and informative reading here, the key being evaporative cooling and knowing when to vent and how much to vent, of course we know a lot of this is common sense which isn't always so common

[Gwolf]

Have you ever wondered about the old prospectors living out in the desert heat with only a tent and a burrow for months or years........... why the mule skinners that drove the 20 mule team wagons in and out of Death Valley could survive the heat............ or even why the modern day nomads in the Sahara do not all die of heat stroke?

It is partly staying hydrated, dressing sensibly, and pacing yourself. It is also being acclimatized. If you expect to go from being in an air conditioned environment almost 24 hours a day to suddenly getting out in 100 degree plus heat to be a change you easily make, you will be disappointed.

I am not against innovations that make heat easier to bear........... I am just someone who has lived and worked outdoors most of my life where it regularly gets over 100 degrees in summer, and I ride in it without even noticing it.

[UtahPete]

Have you ever wondered about the old prospectors living out in the desert heat with only a tent and a burrow for months or years........... why the mule skinners that drove the 20 mule team wagons in and out of Death Valley could survive the heat............ or even why the modern day nomads in the Sahara do not all die of heat stroke?

It is partly staying hydrated, dressing sensibly, and pacing yourself. It is also being acclimatized. If you expect to go from being in an air conditioned environment almost 24 hours a day to suddenly getting out in 100 degree plus heat to be a change you easily make, you will be disappointed.

I agree to a certain extent. But when it's not possible to acclimate, we need to be able to compensate. I think it's the latter we're talking about on this thread.

[AeroPilot]

An excellent article on principles of heat transfer and numerical values for heat transferred. Thanks Falcon.. How that heat affects us depends on our age, physical fitness/circulation etc. I know I can't work or ride in heat like I used to, and my wifes 110 lbs is more quickly heated up than my 215 lbs of 50 percent or more water mass. Light clothing, neck wraps from a cold water/ice cooler, water to hydrate, and stops in the shade or AC cafe every hour are needed when temps get above 93 F (100 showing on the Spyder) are what we go by...

YMMV