How to gear up to ride comfortably and safely in really hot weather?

[Pirate looks at --]

"Don't ride. Honestly, short of strapping ice to your body or pouring water over your head every 15 minutes or so, there really is NO safe way to ride very far when the reported temperature is above 90 F.....because the air above black pavement in the sun will be 120 or more."

i guess then this was just advice to others!

[Easy Rider]

"Don't ride. Honestly, short of strapping ice to your body or pouring water over your head every 15 minutes or so, there really is NO safe way to ride very far when the reported temperature is above 90 F.....because the air above black pavement in the sun will be 120 or more."

i guess then this was just advice to others!

I guess you can read after all.

[bobnaquin]

Thanks for starting this. I recently moved to Southern Utah from California and have found the summer heat a bit much to deal with.

The only thing I can add is that 93 degrees is the magic number. Up to that air temperature, more air over your body will cool you. Above that number, more air flow will heat you up. If you gain 3 degrees you will be sick. If you gain 5 degrees you might die.

Sooooo Drink a lot of water and keep yourself wet. If you are wet, a mesh jacket will help at higher temperatures as the water evaporates. I also use the 'don't ride' method. I also have forgone my years of ATGATT doctrine.( All The Gear, All The Time. ) My logic is that if I am suffering heat stroke from wearing too much gear I will more likely have an accident that causes me to need ATGATT. Some guys I ride with are in loose shorts, sandals and a tank top. I don't go that far but try to hit a mid point where I have the essentials protected while still allowing my body to get air across it. And I carry a lot of water.

I have a wet vest that I have not quite learned how to use but I will.

I have not read the entire threads here but will as time permits.

[UtahPete]

I recently moved to Southern Utah from California and have found the summer heat a bit much to deal with. The only thing I can add is that 93 degrees is the magic number. Up to that air temperature, more air over your body will cool you. Above that number, more air flow will heat you up. If you gain 3 degrees you will be sick. If you gain 5 degrees you might die.

Sooooo Drink a lot of water and keep yourself wet. If you are wet, a mesh jacket will help at higher temperatures as the water evaporates. I ... have forgone ... ATGATT If I am suffering heat stroke from wearing too much gear I will more likely have an accident that causes me to need ATGATT. I try to hit a mid point where I have the essentials protected while still allowing my body to get air across it. And I carry a lot of water. I have a wet vest that I have not quite learned how to use but I will. I have not read the entire threads here but will as time permits.

Welcome to Utah, Bob. Maybe we can do some rides together when Jane and I move south for the winter. PM me if you're interested.

I agree with your philosophy of modified ATGATT; I believe the Spyder's stability vastly reduces the need for all that body protection. Still wear a helmet though and still trying to figure out how to keep my head from overheating.

[UtahPete]

I recently moved to Southern Utah from California and have found the summer heat a bit much to deal with.

The only thing I can add is that 93 degrees is the magic number. Up to that air temperature, more air over your body will cool you. Above that number, more air flow will heat you up. If you gain 3 degrees you will be sick. If you gain 5 degrees you might die.

Sooooo Drink a lot of water and keep yourself wet. If you are wet, a mesh jacket will help at higher temperatures as the water evaporates. I also use the 'don't ride' method. I also have forgone my years of ATGATT doctrine.( All The Gear, All The Time. ) My logic is that if I am suffering heat stroke from wearing too much gear I will more likely have an accident that causes me to need ATGATT. Some guys I ride with are in loose shorts, sandals and a tank top. I don't go that far but try to hit a mid point where I have the essentials protected while still allowing my body to get air across it. And I carry a lot of water.

Jane and I recently completed a 6-day trip through Arizona that was quite interesting for its wide range of temperatures. The first day out from our base in So. Utah, we met up with some other riders in Oatman, AZ. On the way there, the temps were climbing into the 90's and we both removed our 3-season riding jackets (which are black and have some mesh panels but are not all mesh) because we were getting too warm. As Bob suggested above, ATGATT seems counter-productive if it causes overheating leading to heat-related brain fuzziness, so we left the jackets off as we rode south out of Oatman toward Lake Havasu.

I had on my Orvis long sleeve zip neck fishing shirt with high UV protection and a high collar http://www.orvis.com/p/drirelease-lo...ing-shirt/1r47 . For pants, I kept on my lightweight stretch jeans. Full modular helmet. As we neared Havasu, the temps crept over 100 and at times hit 104. I was warm, but comfortable (except for the tops of my thighs which got very hot as the jeans clung to my skin).

Jane on the other hand got very overheated and we had to stop at Havasu and seek some shade so she could chill out a bit. Her face was flushed. We hydrated her, dumped water on her and she just rested for about 1/2 hour in the sparse shade until she started feeling better. At that point, she also had put on her ice-water-soaked evap vest, which helped.

Eventually, we got back on the bikes and continued on our way through the desert toward Wickenburg, AZ, with temps still in the 3 digits for at least 3 hours. During that time, her evap vest dried out and no longer provided any cooling effect. Fortunately, by then the temps were dropping a little and we made it to Wickenburg without Jane feeling dangerously overheated.

A few days later, we were headed from Scottsdale to Globe, AZ with temps at times hovering near 100. This time, Jane was trying one of my fishing shirts alone and experienced much more comfort and no stress from the heat.

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this experience. We had not planned on encountering a heat wave of that magnitude in April so had to make do with what clothing and protection we had. In other words, we had worn 3-season jackets and not all-mesh jackets and pants. Fortunately, we had remembered to pre-soak our evap vests, which proved critical to Jane's well-being in the heat the first day (to lower her core temp) but of little use for distance riding once it dried out. I never used my evap vest and didn't feel the need for it. The Orvis fishing shirts turned out to be the most comfortable outerwear for both high heat riding and moderate temp riding (i.e. lightweight, breathable but excellent UV protection).

So, still researching this topic because we know desert riding will always be a factor in our Spyder touring adventures. But, also need to be able to protect from the cold on the same trip, without carrying an excessive amount of outerwear for changing conditions (our last day of riding through the mountains of northern Arizona, southern Utah temps hovered between 45-65 degrees with a strong cold wind to deal with).

By the way, constant hydration is important in the desert, as is moving forward for air flow. So we plan on getting Camelbacks or something similar to avoid having to stop in the shadeless desert to get a drink of water. I think what I'm going to look into is a lightweight wicking base layer (top and bottom) and a loose-fitting outer layer that provides excellent UV protection and reflects the sun as much as possible. I think the Orvis shirts may be good for the upper body, but I am still looking for a solution for the lower body (pants).

I think I'm going to ditch the evap vests; they just are not effective for long enough to make them practical for touring in the Southwest (where shaded rest stops with water are very few and far between). By the way our two dogs, in the pet trailer from Kompact Kamp, seemed to be very comfortable and not the least bit overheated as long as we kept moving. If we stopped for long though, we had to find shade.

I'll post as I come up with any solutions to pass along. Meanwhile, I'd welcome any comments from others who have learned to deal with the extremely hot, dry conditions of desert riding.

Addendum: in reading back through these posts I saw the reference to LD Comfort so looked them up. Their 1/4 zip mock turtle shirt http://ldcomfort.com/long-sleeve-mock-zipper-top.html seems very much like my Orvis shirts, except in limited colors and a lot pricier.

[UtahPete]

Hi Pete, Does your wife's have a VENTED windshield??? If you get her one or install one yourself ( Goldwing style ) she will be cooler and thank you

Say ER: Stock windshield doesn't flow much air. But a vented shield does. " My RT in it's stock configuration doesn't have much airflow on the "driver" at all.

Lew, Jane's RT has the F4 windshield with the Goldwing vent.

[loisk]

Recently researchers (scientists) here did a study of motorbike gear and heat - studying reaction time after x minutes in x gear, and found that body heat build up with motorbike gear was equal to semi-drunk driving in regard to slowed reaction time, awareness of surroundings, etc.

The best tips I have been given, and found helpful, are to douse my t-shirt (under jacket) with water to create some cooling, and to sprinkle some water inside helmet to keep the brain a little cooler. My other go-to is a cotton neck thingo, sometimes dipped in water and wrung out, to keep hot air off, which I find helpful.

ps sounds like a great trip

[UtahPete]

Actually, JC, LD Comfort, who are a well known and reputable US manufacturer of cooling and heating gear agree with Pirate. They recommend you do NOT use a mesh jacket over their wet undergear, but use a normal jacket with a couple of vents open for the best cooling effect. I doubt they would leave themselves open to litigation by offering wrong and dangerous misinformation. The jury might still be out on that one. Pete

This is the PDF PeteOz refers to for LD Comfort's explanation of the science behind their clothing. http://www.ldcomfort.com/pdf/LDComfortOnePage2013.pdf

[wyliec]

Actually, JC, LD Comfort, who are a well known and reputable US manufacturer of cooling and heating gear agree with Pirate. They recommend you do NOT use a mesh jacket over their wet undergear, but use a normal jacket with a couple of vents open for the best cooling effect. I doubt they would leave themselves open to litigation by offering wrong and dangerous misinformation. The jury might still be out on that one.

Pete

I looked at their picture depiction (LD Comfort) and they are counting on the air up the sleeves of your jacket to carry the heat away. That would be nice, but on my textile jacket the sleeve cuffs are tight. Without that air, the cooling effect will be much less. I can agree with a mesh jacket causing the evaporation process to be quicker in regards to drying out the shirt, and requiring more wetting of the shirt. But, toward the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned to be all zipped up, which is what I disagreed with.

[spyderyderjim]

This is the PDF PeteOz refers to for LD Comfort's explanation of the science behind their clothing. http://www.ldcomfort.com/pdf/LDComfortOnePage2013.pdf

Pete,
Sounds like your fishing shirts worked in extreme Arizona heat 100+ you & wife got caught ryding in.
I have used LDcomfort Men's long sleeve mock turtleneck & LD comforts Men's Long riding tights year round for many years as undergarments.
I also use Glacer Tek Sports Cool Vest in over 80+ deg Tucson/Phoenix, Arizona heat.
The Cool Vest packets keeps core body temperatures down for about 2/12 to 3 hours.
I only use the 2 front Cool Vest cold packets (because I am skinny), but most people will also use the other 2 cold packets in back of vest.
(I also carry in soft ice chest a spare set of cold packets, with Blue Ice to keep them cold).
https://www.glaciertek.com/
I use Fieldsheer jacket year round, Fieldsheer pants.
Of course stop often for Poweraid Zero & water to drink.
I am sure a lot of Spyder ryders on here use what works for them in extreme summer heat.
I am just sharing what has worked for me for many, many years.
Enjoy your rydes.
Jim
IMG_3994.jpgCoolVest Tourmaster Transition jacket IMG_3992.jpgCoolVest IMG_3989.jpg

[UtahPete]

I have used LDcomfort Men's long sleeve mock turtleneck & LD comforts Men's Long riding tights year round for many years as undergarments.
I also use Glacer Tek Sports Cool Vest in over 80+ deg Tucson/Phoenix, Arizona heat. The Cool Vest packets keeps core body temperatures down for about 2/12 to 3 hours.
I only use the 2 front Cool Vest cold packets (because I am skinny), but most people will also use the other 2 cold packets in back of vest.
(I also carry in soft ice chest a spare set of cold packets, with Blue Ice to keep them cold).https://www.glaciertek.com/
I use Fieldsheer jacket year round, Fieldsheer pants.

I am just sharing what has worked for me for many, many years. Enjoy your rydes. Jim
IMG_3994.jpgCoolVest Tourmaster Transition jacket IMG_3992.jpgCoolVest IMG_3989.jpg

Jim, thanks for the input. That's quite valuable.

[RinconRyder]

Originally Posted by Pirate looks at --
Great post Ann. People don't understand the laws of Thermodynamics. Heat will always try to find a balance and transfer from the warmer surface to the cooler surface. If it is over 99 degrees outside, you want to keep your 98.6 inside and away from the 102 outside. You will remain cooler by zipping up all vents and even closing the vents on your helmet. Keep the 98.6 inside and you will be cooler. I tested this coming home from Valcourt. Drove 200 miles across South Dakota in 102 degrees. I closed up everything and remained cool throughout. Once you jump out there in your shorts you will dehydrate and go into heat sickness very fast. So if you are going to the grocery store you can wear what you want, but for me, I am going to remain covered like those cool, calm collected BMW ryders.....and the long, tall cool one....Ann Myers!

As a lifelong bike rider in the deserts of Arizona I disagree with the above. Humans sweat as a way of evaporative cooling. If you don't allow air to contact the wet spots and evaporate them you are building up heat and causing your body to eventually dehydrate as it tries to cool itself.

If you have a means of external cooling (hydro vest, etc.) then you should be fine as long as the RH is not higher than about 20% or so. At RH higher than that the efficiency is greatly reduced and you will just sweat profusely but not cool off. Folks in the South know how that works.

The other trick is to use shade whenever possible. Long sleeves and long pants are mandatory even in very hot weather. Try not to let the sun hit any raw skin and that goes for people of any and all colors. Use sun block on exposed skin. Drink water before you get thirsty and monitor your urine. If it is bright yellow you are dehydrated and need more water and rest. Do not substitute alcoholic beverages or carbonated drinks for water. Listen to your body. If you start to get dizzy or confused pull over to a shady spot and give it a rest.

If you are diabetic monitor your blood sugar closely and keep it a little bit on the high side (around 150 or so). Don't try to lower it while riding and especially when riding in very hot temps.

And, if you come from a much cooler climate (upper Midwest, New England etc.) don't try pushing the ride in very hot weather. Your body is not used to it. Take it easy on the road and rest if you get overheated or tired. Ride in early morning when temps are at their lowest and stop when it gets uncomfortable.

I forgot to mention age. Many of us are in our later years and heat can take a terrible toll on old bodies. Pay attention to your body and if you already know you are affected by high temps don't push it.

[UtahPete]

As a lifelong bike rider in the deserts of Arizona I disagree with the above. Humans sweat as a way of evaporative cooling. If you don't allow air to contact the wet spots and evaporate them you are building up heat and causing your body to eventually dehydrate as it tries to cool itself.

If you have a means of external cooling (hydro vest, etc.) then you should be fine as long as the RH is not higher than about 20% or so. At RH higher than that the efficiency is greatly reduced and you will just sweat profusely but not cool off. Folks in the South know how that works.

The other trick is to use shade whenever possible. Long sleeves and long pants are mandatory even in very hot weather. Try not to let the sun hit any raw skin and that goes for people of any and all colors. Use sun block on exposed skin.

What do you use for outer layer in extreme heat? (Shirt or jacket and pants)

[MR. H1956]

Pete,
Sounds like your fishing shirts worked in extreme Arizona heat 100+ you & wife got caught ryding in.
I have used LDcomfort Men's long sleeve mock turtleneck & LD comforts Men's Long riding tights year round for many years as undergarments.
I also use Glacer Tek Sports Cool Vest in over 80+ deg Tucson/Phoenix, Arizona heat.
The Cool Vest packets keeps core body temperatures down for about 2/12 to 3 hours.
I only use the 2 front Cool Vest cold packets (because I am skinny), but most people will also use the other 2 cold packets in back of vest.
(I also carry in soft ice chest a spare set of cold packets, with Blue Ice to keep them cold).
https://www.glaciertek.com/
I use Fieldsheer jacket year round, Fieldsheer pants.
Of course stop often for Poweraid Zero & water to drink.
I am sure a lot of Spyder ryders on here use what works for them in extreme summer heat.
I am just sharing what has worked for me for many, many years.
Enjoy your rydes.
Jim
IMG_3994.jpgCoolVest Tourmaster Transition jacket IMG_3992.jpgCoolVest IMG_3989.jpg

My wife has a vest with gel packs that you freeze. They last almost all day. She loves it. I just wear a water wiking shirt and thin pants. Heat don't brother me like it does the wife. Raised on a farm and use to the heat. Just drink lots of water and stay hydrated.

[RinconRyder]

What do you use for outer layer in extreme heat? (Shirt or jacket and pants)

Extreme heat means anything over 100 to me but others might consider 90 to be very hot. I usually wear a white long sleeved cotton sweatshirt type shirt but thin enough to let pass through but the other trick is to ride the high country here when the valley's are hot and ride the valley's in the evening or early morning. White or light colored sweatpants work nicely for the legs and the fabric doesn't let your legs get burned by the sun. If you need some temporary relief just dump some water on either. Cotton absorbs water nicely and will give you 10-15 minutes of cooling even in very hot temps. A cotton neckerchief works well to keep sun off the neck and also can be doused with water to cool your head without getting everything all wet.

I gave up riding in ultra hot temps years ago. It just wasn't comfy.

If you have miles to cover you can try riding in the evening. It is still hot but the lack of direct desert sunshine makes a big difference. Those of us who have been riding in AZ for a long time usually plan our rides early morning at lower altitudes and in the mountains during the summer day. Coming back home in the evening after the sun goes down is usually not bad but you have to watch for critters. As you already know, altitude in AZ makes all the difference in temps.

[RykerUSA]

A few years ago I rode across Death Valley in August in the afternoon and the temperature at Furnace Creek was 129. I can speak from experience. You want to keep everything covered and closed. I live through the experience. Whenever the wind would untuk my long sleeve white t-shirt from underneath my gloves and expose my wrists, the heat was incredibly noticeable. I quickly tucked my t-shirt back in under my gloves and things were good. One of my friends chose not to wear socks that day. Big mistake!

[Samson]

I wear long sleeves, Mesh Jacket with chest and arm vents open, Gloves, Full Face Helmet with dark sun glasses and with vents open. I pull over every hour to hydrate and I pour water on my shirt etc.. The first several miles after getting back on the bike it's a lot cooler. Hydration is the key and keeping the sun off of you.

[UtahPete]

I usually wear a white long sleeved cotton sweatshirt type shirt but thin enough to let pass through. White or light colored sweatpants work nicely for the legs and the fabric doesn't let your legs get burned by the sun. If you need some temporary relief just dump some water on either. Cotton absorbs water nicely and will give you 10-15 minutes of cooling even in very hot temps. A cotton neckerchief works well to keep sun off the neck and also can be doused with water to cool your head without getting everything all wet.

Yup, altitude makes a big difference here in Utah also.

So, if I understand you, no armored outerwear but;

• Long sleeved cotton sweatshirt and sweatpants
• Douse them with water for temporary instant relief
• Cover every inch of skin
• Loose clothing for evap effect from perspiration
• Avoid extreme temps if possible, either by riding in the cool of the day or seeking cooler altitudes

[UtahPete]

I wear long sleeves, Mesh Jacket with chest and arm vents open, Gloves, Full Face Helmet with dark sun glasses and with vents open. I pull over every hour to hydrate and I pour water on my shirt etc.. The first several miles after getting back on the bike it's a lot cooler. Hydration is the key and keeping the sun off of you.

We were just through Prescott. Took SR-73 (?) from Wickenburg up to Prescott. There was at least a 15 degree drop in temperature AND that road to Prescott and to Jerome is just made for bikes!

[Samson]

I had lunch in Jerome then on to Sedona, Flagstaff, West/ North to Grand Canyon, further west to Rt 66 for a ways then south back to Prescott, Great ride, great weather

[RinconRyder]

A few years ago I rode across Death Valley in August in the afternoon and the temperature at Furnace Creek was 129. I can speak from experience. You want to keep everything covered and closed. I live through the experience. Whenever the wind would untuk my long sleeve white t-shirt from underneath my gloves and expose my wrists, the heat was incredibly noticeable. I quickly tucked my t-shirt back in under my gloves and things were good. One of my friends chose not to wear socks that day. Big mistake!

Closed finger gloves are mandatory as well. If you wear "Harley gloves" your fingers under your nails will feel like you stuck 'em in a BBQ.

[Docster]

This is a DANGEROUS misconception to be passing around.
The human body MUST have some way to shed heat.
IF you enclose yourself with no ventilation, your body's temperature will continue to rise until you have a heat stroke.

But you don't have to believe me: ASK A DOCTOR.

Just because you saw it on the Internet and it SOUNDS plausible does not mean that it is true.

This is correct . Whenever there is advice or opinion, always go with the science. In the era of the internet it's easy to find legitimate academic/scientific sources for answers or confirmations

[Wes P]

With regards to the heat, fluids and treatments, you all are partially correct.. however, you are not putting all of the parts together.
A deeper understanding of the physiology is needed.

I have spent the better part of the last 30 some years lecturing on managing body temperature to Search and Rescue Teams, EMT’s, Paramedics and flight Nurses. I flew as a Reserve Flight Medic in the Southwestern US.

The body functions in a very limited temperature range before there is a deviation away from normal function.

If you have a fever.. even if it is only 100 degrees the body begins to sweat, a cooling mechanism, blood vessels dilate to allow more blood flow to help cool the body.
Conversely, if your core temperature drops only a few degrees, blood vessels close, to keep blood localized. We also begin to shiver as a means to produce muscle activity with the intention to generate heat. The window between warm and cold response by the body is very narrow.

With regards to the body, temperature loss or gain can be as much as 200% faster through a wet medium. Think about falling through the ice, the sudden drop of temperature will conduct heat away from the body at an alarming rate so much so it can render an adult unconscious in a few minutes . This is called Hypothermia.
Hypo… meaning loss, lower Thermia meaning cold in this case ….so loss of heat body core heat is Hypothermia.

In high temperature environments you would suffer from Hyperthermia.
Hyper meaning …more than or higher.. Thermia meaning in this case, hot temperature, so Hyperthermia means an increase in temperature to the body core.

Heat Exhaustion, Heat Stroke are the common maladies with elevated body temperatures. In short the body has lost its ability to cool itself by perspiration. Remember the statement … temperature loss or gain can be faster through a wet medium.. well that is what sweating does.. we don't perspire 70 degrees sweat.. we sweat at whatever body temperature we are at. The wet or moist surface of the skin conducts heat away faster so we can cool faster.

If we lose the ability to sweat, we can not shed the heat effectively so external cooling is required to conduct the heat away. So water mist, wet jackets etc help. However care must be taken to make sure that the wet surface does not exceed the normal temperature of the body otherwise it will cause the skin / body to gain in temperature and that would be a bad thing. You will end up spending up the process for Heat Stroke..

Always keep the skin covered, do not expose it to the sun.. Sun Burn will eventually occur . This is a true burn / cooking of the skin. This promotes dehydration and increases the body temperature.

Fluid intake is important to maintain good temperature management… Water or isotonic balanced solutions. Gator Aid.. diluted 50% with water is better than full strength . There are other fluids that will work as well… you just need to make sure that the you do not place to much sodium in the stomach and intestines or it will draw fluid from blood and tissue thereby reducing the effectiveness of the body cooling itself…

So salt tablets, salted water and other high sodium product do not help…

Cover up, drink plenty of fluid, eat normal foods with reasonable amounts of sodium. One note Caffeine is a diuretic.. meaning that it will cause you to lose more fluid than what you take in… So coffee, sodas etc are not good for hot environments.

I hope this helps a little

[Peteoz]

Wow, Wes. Thanks for taking the time to post that. Would those general rules apply to those who really feel humidity and those that don’t? I sweat at 90degrees and 70+% humidity, sweat badly at 90degrees and 90+% humidity. My wife does not feel even 100% humidity despite the temperature. There’s no need to reply if the answer is too complex.

Pete

[wyliec]

Wes P,

Nice job. I like it that you stayed away from the terms of heat transfer: conduction, convection, radiation, evaporation. Once you get into that, it gets a little confusing. I did notice conduct, but that was excellent.