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  1. #1
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    Default Should Spyder have its own independent dealer network in addition to BRP dealers?

    Just a thought. I realize there are many obstacles to this actually happening, but let's talk about it anyway.

    After reading through a lot of threads on here in the past few months, it occurs to me that if BRP allowed Spyder division to contract with existing independent motorcycle dealerships, it would quickly create a very wide network of dealerships that have the built-in market, technical expertise and marketing ability within their respective markets to properly sell and support what are essentially highly sophisticated road machines.

    Can-Am dealers in many places are not oriented at all toward road machines. Their expertise and interest is in selling and supporting a very different demographic with ATV's, snowmobiles, personal watercraft and the like. These buyers generally do not have to be licensed or properly trained to use their machines and most likely don't socialize together around their chosen brand of machine. Maintenance needs are very seasonal and rather minimal compared to what it takes to maintain a machine that must negotiate public roads safely.

    Motorcycle dealers, on the other hand, are familiar with and geared to meet the needs of their buyers. Just think how different the experience would be for Spyder owners to be able to have a choice of local dealers with the interest and expertise to tend to the quirks and intricacies of their machines. This would probably be a bigger factor for the Great Plains and intermountain west Spyder ryders, who generally do not have technical and other after-sales support within a reasonable distance.

    Meanwhile, Spyder would enjoy a much greater market presence among its key demographics and probably see a surge in sales.

    What do you think?

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  2. #2
    Very Active Member oldguyinCT's Avatar
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    Most Spyder dealers, as you stated, sell all of BRP's product lineup. This is because if the dealer wants to sell, ATV's, Ski-doos, etc., BRP requires them to sell Spyders too. All to often at these dealers, Spyders are treated like the "poor stepchild" that nobody wants around. Then there are the Mega dealers who sell 8 different brands of motorcycles as well as BRP products, and have little to no interest in trying to sell Spyders, but again they are forced to by BRP. The hardest thing is finding a dealer that has a certified Spyder technician - and they usually only have one because their Spyder sales volume doesn't justify having more than one - and then hoping that he stays with that dealer. Otherwise it's "on the job training" with a wrench turner reading the service manual as he goes along. This adds a huge cost to maintenance/repair bills as it will take that guy considerably longer to effect any given work needing to be done, and dealers charge by the hour, not by the book. I have been to one of these big multi-brand dealers, and I have never seen more than two Spyders on the showroom floor, and maybe one in for service. In the spring, the sales floor is covered with Sea-Doos, in the fall it is covered with Ski-Doos, ATV's all year round, and one or two Spyders tucked away in a corner. IMHO, BRP needs to tighten the reins on dealers, and make them commit to Spyders as much as they do the rest of BRP's product line.
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  3. #3
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Default

    An interesting concept. I know that in the early days, dealers were stuck with large minimum orders, large parts inventories, requirements for mechanics training, and accessory inventory requirements. It does not seem to be in place any more.

    The idea of other brands available can be helpful to the dealers, but there has to be a happy medium somewhere on this.

    A few bad dealers have tainted the reputation of the brand a bit.

    For once, I am going to sit back and watch what others think.

    Last edited by ARtraveler; 08-15-2017 at 01:03 PM.

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  4. #4
    Very Active Member Pirate looks at --'s Avatar
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    Default Interesting But

    Most dealers here in California are "Motorcycle" shops. In fact the dealer in San Jose sells, Indian, Victory (until they run out) Slingshot and Spyders.......not one single Side by Side watercraft, or ATV. My local dealer, the number Spyder Dealer in the Western Region, also sells Aprillia, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, MV-Augusta and others. They are also the Number1 water craft dealer for Seadoo in the country. In Fresno they carry 12 different lines of Motorcycles Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM and many more. In Roseville they are one of the largest Honda dealers in California. So at least here in California this is happening now, and BROs focus is on working with this type of dealer. The biggest is educating the sales on what the Spyder is and how to sell it.
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  5. #5
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    This'll NEVER happen...
    Their Franchised Dealerships would never want to be competing directly against the Company that they work for...
    1. Guess who would get the machines first?
    2. Guess who'd get what they want: when they want it?
    3. Guess who'd have the best lines of communication for technical support?

    a very bad idea...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate looks at -- View Post
    Most dealers here in California are "Motorcycle" shops. In fact the dealer in San Jose sells, Indian, Victory (until they run out) Slingshot and Spyders.......not one single Side by Side watercraft, or ATV. My local dealer, the number Spyder Dealer in the Western Region, also sells Aprillia, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, MV-Augusta and others. They are also the Number1 water craft dealer for Seadoo in the country. In Fresno they carry 12 different lines of Motorcycles Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM and many more. In Roseville they are one of the largest Honda dealers in California. So at least here in California this is happening now, and BROs focus is on working with this type of dealer. The biggest is educating the sales on what the Spyder is and how to sell it.
    That's good to know. My only experience has been with two dealers in Utah so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    This'll NEVER happen...
    Their Franchised Dealerships would never want to be competing directly against the Company that they work for...
    1. Guess who would get the machines first?
    2. Guess who'd get what they want: when they want it?
    3. Guess who'd have the best lines of communication for technical support? a very bad idea...
    Bob, for once I don't understand your reasoning. According to another post on here, some version of this is already in place in California.

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  8. #8
    Active Member Chasinsparks's Avatar
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    Default Humm

    This subject has to be my biggest complaint about the Spyder, trying to find a dealer that is not only good at sales but even better at service and repairs. If the grim reaper were to come to the take the Spyder out of the market I believe it will be due to the lack of quality of care you get after the sale.

    When you spend this kind of money, you kind of expect to be able to get good service. The dealer I bought my bike from was great when taking my money for the bike. I purchased parts and we agreed when they came in they would be installed, I called for two weeks trying to get an appointment to have parts installed, the manager would not even call me back after like 20 calls to him not getting a return call I emailed and got nothing, then I emailed from another account posing as if I wanted to buy a new bike and got a response in 5 min (amazing), I finally got the so called service guy on the phone, he told me he did not know what the shop hour rate was, and that it would take all day to install the entertainment harness but would have to get back to me because he would need to study the schematic. I finally just went and picked up my parts and installed them myself.

    BRP calls for 1.5 to install the harness (not all day) I had never even taken a panel off the Spyder and did it in my garage in about 2.5 hours.

  9. #9
    Active Member robtdonna's Avatar
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    I believe he may have been saying that 'tongue-in-cheek'.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Bob, for once I don't understand your reasoning. According to another post on here, some version of this is already in place in California.
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  10. #10
    Active Member 2RTsGV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    This'll NEVER happen...
    Their Franchised Dealerships would never want to be competing directly against the Company that they work for...
    1. Guess who would get the machines first?
    2. Guess who'd get what they want: when they want it?
    3. Guess who'd have the best lines of communication for technical support?

    a very bad idea...
    Not quite sure I am understanding what you are saying here Bob. When you say the franchised dealerships not wanting to compete against the company they work for, which franchise are you referring to, BRP? ... or do you mean say Honda / Suzuki / Yamaha etc … I ask this coz in my mind if it’s BRP then why are these BRP dealers not putting in the effort to support the spyder? If you are talking about other brands, normally dealerships have multiple brands they support, (Ducati / Yamaha / URAL etc so they are not truly working just for one brand anyway and adding another shouldn’t really put too much strain on them


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtdonna View Post
    I believe he may have been saying that 'tongue-in-cheek'.
    I dunno. He followed it with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    This'll NEVER happen...
    Their Franchised Dealerships would never want to be competing directly against the Company that they work for...
    1. Guess who would get the machines first?
    2. Guess who'd get what they want: when they want it?
    3. Guess who'd have the best lines of communication for technical support?

    a very bad idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Bob, for once I don't understand your reasoning. According to another post on here, some version of this is already in place in California.

    Bob,

    You are so correct about the competition part. We have an independent BRP certified repair shop here in Southern California, but only because he was involved with the Spyder from the beginning. His work is the best, and people ryde for miles to go to him. As far as I know he is the only certified independent Spyder repairman/shop allowed. While he only does repairs, and does not sell Spyders. Several years ago he faced issues with the two dealers that had sold Spyders (one stopped selling them).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Star View Post
    Bob, You are so correct about the competition part. We have an independent BRP certified repair shop here in Southern California, but only because he was involved with the Spyder from the beginning. His work is the best, and people ryde for miles to go to him. As far as I know he is the only certified independent Spyder repairman/shop allowed. While he only does repairs, and does not sell Spyders. Several years ago he faced issues with the two dealers that had sold Spyders (one stopped selling them).
    So, I think what you are saying is that; a) independent BRP certified repair shops are a good idea and b) BRP doesn't certify non-dealers and this guy is an anomaly and probably gets away with it because he is only in the repair side of things (which small BRP dealerships don't like to do anyway).

    Is that right?

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  14. #14
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    Default Ah well...

    One can dream....
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    So, I think what you are saying is that; a) independent BRP certified repair shops are a good idea and b) BRP doesn't certify non-dealers and this guy is an anomaly and probably gets away with it because he is only in the repair side of things (which small BRP dealerships don't like to do anyway).

    Is that right?
    To be honest, I never thought about it before I read this thread, but yes I think it would be a good idea. After all there are several independent bike/car repair shops. Gives an owner a better choice of either the dealer, or independent. Some prefer only dealers for any/all repairs, and some don't. I know with my car I go to the dealer for repairs, but for things like tires I go non-dealer. If a shop is no good they go out of business leaving the better shops to fill in.

    I am not sure if the repair only is the reason, but just know that for the 6 years I've known him he does not sell. I do know when BRP started displaying/demoing the Spyder in San Diego back when they first came out he was their mechanic that rode around in/with the truck doing any of the repair work needed. I know he has ties with BRP that allows him the certification, but do not know what they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Star View Post
    Bob,

    You are so correct about the competition part. We have an independent BRP certified repair shop here in Southern California, but only because he was involved with the Spyder from the beginning. His work is the best, and people ryde for miles to go to him. As far as I know he is the only certified independent Spyder repairman/shop allowed. While he only does repairs, and does not sell Spyders. Several years ago he faced issues with the two dealers that had sold Spyders (one stopped selling them).
    I think this would be a better solution to the current dilemma most are having now with their dealers. Maybe BRP could setup independent service / repair shops in proximity to the dealerships though at a separate location specializing in Spyder. That way the dealers can sell them and the independent service / repairs shops can do the upkeep on them. BRP can train and situate 1 or 2 techs at each repair shop based on volume of sales for that location. The independent repair shops can do all the warranty work and directly deal with BRP for approvals and such. As time goes on, more and more of these repair shops can pop up as needed to manage the sales volume of a given area.


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    Interesting question.

    We we have a couple of independent service guys near me - their investment is in the Buds. I don't think either are brp trained techs, but they know their bike mechanics and they know the tricks and traps of the spyder. All up, a better and cheaper alternative than the big multi-brand shop and I have heard way cheaper than the seadoo specialist.

    We still travel three hours each way to our dealer - who sells many brands including spyder, but not seadoo (or at least not prominently). He is one of the few smaller shops left, many having been swallowed up by the big player. The big player is only 20 mins away, and I pop in to see what they've got, show the salesman where the air fill thing is on the f3t & etc.

    The question is re the relationship between the independent service guy and brp head office in Australia. Don't know how this works, but doesn't seem to matter.


    ps warranty isn't such an issue here - we get at most two years, and cannot buy/get any extended warranty at all. One dealer has just advertised a spyder with a five year /100,000 km warranty, so things may be looking up.
    Last edited by loisk; 08-15-2017 at 04:51 PM.

  18. #18
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguyinCT View Post
    Most Spyder dealers, as you stated, sell all of BRP's product lineup. This is because if the dealer wants to sell, ATV's, Ski-doos, etc., BRP requires them to sell Spyders too.
    Not the case. A dealer near McCall, ID sells Ski-Doos and Can Am UTVs but is not a Spyder dealer. The biggest problem with small dealers is the requirement to buy a minimum number of Spyders in order to be a dealer, a number that is more than a small local market will absorb. If a dealer, like the one near McCall, doesn't think they can sell the minimum they won't take on the Spyder line.

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    For the record: I'm heart-attack serious about this.
    Dealerships will NEVER allow themselves to be put in the position of competing against the parent Company.
    They'll drop the line, and sell something else.

    BRP would also not want to have to support a network of Dealerships for whom they are responsible. From a liability standpoint: it's dynamite!

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    Am I missing something?

    Competition with the parent company?

    We cannot buy from or even talk to the parent company ... What competition? Surely dealers are agents of brp? And independent service shops are just that, independent, not agents.

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    Non-Franchised shops sill never be allowed in the loop: the current Dealer network has too much invested, to allow that to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Non-Franchised shops sill never be allowed in the loop: the current Dealer network has too much invested, to allow that to happen.
    Ah, now I understand where you are coming from.

    I'm not talking about non-franchised shops; that would never happen, I agree. I'm talking about motorcycle shops that sell multiple brands (i.e. independent of a particular manufacturer like Honda) being able to sell and service Spyders without being obliged to carry the entire line of BRP products, as presently seems to be the case.

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    I wish there was a reputable shop around here to work on these things. plenty of good indy 2 wheel shops. but nobody works on the Spyders that I know of. nearest Spyder dealer, their master tech left for greener pastures as I understand it. the dealer that used to sell spyders about 30 miles from here, they're selling something from can am but it is not spyders. prolly side by sides. they won't work on a spyder.

  24. #24
    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Not the case. A dealer near McCall, ID sells Ski-Doos and Can Am UTVs but is not a Spyder dealer. The biggest problem with small dealers is the requirement to buy a minimum number of Spyders in order to be a dealer, a number that is more than a small local market will absorb. If a dealer, like the one near McCall, doesn't think they can sell the minimum they won't take on the Spyder line.
    We have a similar situation down here in Richfield. Jorgensen's is one of the best power sports dealers in the intermountain West. People come up from Arizona to buy there. He even sell a number of used Spyders and his staff is somewhat knowledgeable on them. He wont take on the Spyder line although he is a Can Am, Skidoo, Seadoo dealer because BRP wants him to commit to too many units. Really too bad because he would be a good dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus1300 View Post
    We have a similar situation down here in Richfield. Jorgensen's is one of the best power sports dealers in the intermountain West. People come up from Arizona to buy there. He even sell a number of used Spyders and his staff is somewhat knowledgeable on them. He wont take on the Spyder line although he is a Can Am, Skidoo, Seadoo dealer because BRP wants him to commit to too many units. Really too bad because he would be a good dealer.
    The Intermountain West is surely one of the areas with spotty Spyder support.

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