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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matahead View Post
    What's with all the hate? This Harley owner doesn't care what you sit on, just ride!
    I'm not sure that it's "hate"; it might just be folks noticing that there are some "chinks in the armor" showing...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  2. #27
    Very Active Member Fatcycledaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ..... really , I can't remember the last HOG rider that waved back !!!!!!!! ...... Mike
    On our trip out west we just got back from, I would say that most riders waved. We did notice that if it was not a touring bike that the odds of getting a wave from a Harley rider slipped dramatically. BMW riders seamed to be the worst in my book. We wave either way!
    We also observed that in South Dakota that Harley riders didn't wave to other Harley riders.

    My wife jokingly said that we have been riding for over 30 years together and that is just what we have always done and will do as a courtesy. She said that those ones who don't wave are ones who don't really ride, they trailer their bikes everywhere and then ride into town, so they don't know any better, they aren't real riders, they don't have the experience to have a good riders manners yet. I about died laughing but thought she may be onto something there.
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  3. #28
    Very Active Member Firefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    https://seekingalpha.com/article/408...ctory-thailand

    This article mentions a factory being built in Thailand...

    Harley may be going through what the dinosaurs did... Adapt: or die!
    They have been catering to their core for so long, that they didn't noctice that those riders were getting older.

    and it's not just Harley!
    HD Claims the bikes made over there will not be imported to the USA.... I doubt that will last long. Most of their clothing and trinkets come from over there.
    They could stop making motorcycles altogether and their bottom line would probably skyrocket. They have been marketing geniuses for decades, people who will never own a HD have all kinds of clothing with their brand.

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  4. #29
    Active Member SteveP's Avatar
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    Default Another article

    http://a.msn.com/00/en-ca/AAoq9P5?ocid=se
    seems like there is a real concern not only for Harley

  5. #30
    Active Member Dmetcalf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ..... really , I can't remember the last HOG rider that waved back !!!!!!!! ...... Mike
    I agree with this. I am finding that only about 50% will wave back when on my Spyder. It's a bit sad that so many H-D riders are being so "snobish" about fellow riders (that happen to ride something different) from what they ride. I'll continue to wave and if they wave back great, and if they don't great ..! I'll take the high road.
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  6. #31
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    Default HD riders - where are they going?

    My personal story is that I was a dirt bike enthusiast that had to be convinced to ride on the street. My first HD was a 1965 (milestone year - last year for the 'pan', 1st year for electric start) which I sold in the '70's. Three years ago, my brother suddenly passed away and he had a 75 FX-E that he had tinkered with for years. Fast forward I ended up with the 'ol girl and have spent a huge amount of money keeping it running. As I have aged, like many I seem to be wearing out the knee of my 'landing leg' and riding has become closer to work than it used to be. My wife wanted to ride with me and her son so I purchased our first SPYDER for her. She was unable to go with us on a ride and volunteered her Spydie for me to get acquainted with (I had been on it a few times but never for very long). Long story short, we are now a 2 SPYDER family when 2 weeks ago I purchased an 'almost' twin to hers.

    The Harley isn't going anywhere; it will remain in the family. BUT, it's now my secondary ride and gateway to HOG (which is really big here in Kansas City are).

    I travel throughout the Midwest on business a LOT and have made some observations on the Harley Davidson situation.

    First, the corporate folks seem to be taking a stance with dealers that is effectively 'go big or go home'. Not sure if this is a policy of desperation or what but it seems to be counterproductive to selling motorcycles.

    Second,it was pretty easy to see that 'corporate' HD was not achieving the size and volume that they were needing/expecting when local dealers adopted the 'finance anyone' and 'bring your title, we'll trade for ANYTHING' operational models. Motorcycles are not a NEED but a luxury that we enjoy! I feel that any product sold under these circumstances will in many cases find it's way back to the dealership through recourse provisions in the finance agreement.

    I have been saying for years that the HD 'bubble' was going to burst due to slow sales and pressure on dealers to build bigger and more plush facilities.

    Because my HD is old, I have test ridden both the new HD and the new Indian and was impressed with neither. Mainly because of their transmission noise when first gear is engaged and lack of Asian smoothness when shifted. I recognize that both brands have become almost works of art with their fit, finish and paint but the basics have been ignored.

    I'm very happy with my present situation where I can enjoy the best of both worlds by owning and old HD and a new(ish) SPYDER!

    Sorry this ran so long with 'back stories' but it is necessary to give a bit of history to understand the present and future!

  7. #32
    Very Active Member MRH's Avatar
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    To some extent, I think this is a generational difference.

    A lot of Harleys that are sold are more like clothing or artwork because they are all about the status of riding down the local drag and the bikes may only be ridden 25 miles a week, and then only during the summer.

    Millennials don't but that way. I'm guessing that the bikes that are selling are ones where that they buyers actually intent to ride, which tips the balance away from Harleys, of which many of the sales are more about buying into the brand and the lifestyle, and less about actually riding. While people will want to post their ride on FB, they aren't going to spend $20K to do that.

    It's also worth noting that Millennials are moving away from even owing cars wherever Ubers are available. Aside from their phones, they just own less stuff.

    In many ways, our Spyders are the perfect opposite. We don't anywhere near the same "cool factor" as a Harley owner, instead our decision is all about wanting to actually ride and most of us put real miles on our odometers.
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  8. #33
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    It is my opinion that every motorcycle manufacture is going through this slump in sales. The real reason is the new kids (milennials) aren't interested in motorcycles like we were when we were young. It also doesn't help that more and more of us old fogy's are dying off everyday.
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  9. #34
    Very Active Member SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN's Avatar
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    all i know is i am very happy with my scout and i can see why indian has double digit growth but they are still a flea to harley.
    unless you are into the whole hog thing harley truly does not have enough to offer against other brands that are more reliable.

  10. #35
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    HD just put up a brand new HUGE dealership in the city where I live. Can't imagine how all that display space for branded clothing and soft drink bar, and all that chrome and glass would eat into their profit margin. If you look at most HD dealers around here, there's a lot of expense being used to maintain a corporate image.
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  11. #36
    Very Active Member PaladinLV's Avatar
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    Every time I go out and ride HD riders give me a Wave.
    All, no; but neither do I get waves ALL the time from all crotch rockets, Hondas, Kaws, Suzis, . . .. etc.
    Must be a "locational" thing

    AJ
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    ..... really , I can't remember the last HOG rider that waved back !!!!!!!! ...... Mike


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  12. #37
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    RE: The wave. Now that I ride two wheels some of the time, I get a wave from pretty much all the two wheelers. Crotch rockets, sport tourers, HD's, etc. When we are driving the 's, not so much.

    It does not matter, I am having way to much fun, either way, to care.

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  13. #38
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    Not just HD. It is an across the board decline in riders that is causing this wave through the industry. Millennials aren't buying bikes like the older generations and we are dying out or getting to old to ride every day. Nobody (industry or brand) should be on their "high horse" thinking they are exempt from this trend. I have and HD Road King that I bought this year, used 2005 custom with 24 thousand on it. I have put about 2500 miles on it so far this year. My Spyder on the other hand is sitting parked in the garage and listed for sale about every where I can think of. I have only put about 10 miles on it this year. I pull it out of the garage every month and run it around on some of the local streets to keep the fluids running through it and everything lubricated. As far as the wave thing goes I think it is more the rider on the other end of me waving that has the problem. Was in the UP of Michigan and coming home a couple of weeks ago and must have passed well over 50 BMW bikes on US2 going the opposite direction and maybe 5 of them waved back. I even have Harley guys not wave back. I think that if you wave and the other doesn't they don't know or they think you may be a poser (in the case of a Harley to Harley encounter). Whatever. I wave at everyone unless I am shifting gears, didn't see them, or it is not safe to wave for some reason.

  14. #39
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    I owned 2 HD's are rode over 40 with different motors, controls, pegs, floorboards, seats, transmissions and even one with a kick starter. Absolutely loved the way it made me feel mentally but not physically. Thousands on buy in and thousands on look at me stuff. Truly a bang myself on the head with a hammer 5 year time span. Don't hate them but don't like them at all.

    All I care about whether your on a Vespa, Ducati, HD, Can Am or anything else is the bugs you have to pick from your teeth cause your smilin and having fun.

  15. #40
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    U.S. demographics will affect several businesses over the next 10-15 years. There is a drop in the population just after the last baby-boomers go into retirement.

    Housing is an area that many expect to see a slow-down in sales just at about the time some baby-boomers are wanting to down-size. Some expect they may find it more difficult to sell their homes; especially larger homes as the group following them are fewer, and have less money than the boomers did at that age.

    Someone mentioned Polaris Indian sales are improving. Coming from a zero baseline, they better have growth as a percentage, but when you look at the number of bikes they sell compared to HD, they are not even close. Indian sales have hurt HD some, as probably Spyders have; but the real crunch is coming from a soft buyer's market -- again due to the demographics.

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  16. #41
    Active Member Sccar's Avatar
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    Come on...... I like the HD street glide......yes I know I can get a Kawasaki Street glide (I meant Vulcan vaquero) for $9k less.
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  17. #42
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    I think sales are down for Harley because Trump talked to the Russians! Sorry guys I just couldn't resist!😳

  18. #43
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  19. #44
    Very Active Member dlby's Avatar
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    Default Slam

    Slamming puts U in same category.
    What a waste.
    I have 60 years riding.
    Bridgestone - honda- triumphs- lots of HDs.
    3rd year on my Spyder.
    No slamming though. That's BS.
    Almost everyone waves at me.
    Must be Karma��

  20. #45
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    Well... if this is gonna be about who waves; and who doesn't:

    It's time to break this out again!


    Top Ten Reasons Why Harley Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Afraid it will invalidate warranty.
    9. Leather and studs make it too heavy to raise arm.
    8. Refuse to wave to anyone whose bike is already paid for.
    7. Afraid to let go of handlebars because they might vibrate off.
    6. Rushing wind would blow scabs off the new tattoos.
    5. Angry because they just took out second mortgage to pay luxury tax on new Harley.
    4. Just discovered the fine print in owner's manual and realized H-D is partially owned by Honda.
    3. Can't tell if other riders are waving or just reaching to cover their ears like everyone else.
    2. Remembers the last time a Harley rider waved back, he impaled his hand on spiked helmet.
    1. They're too tired from spending hours polishing all that chrome to lift their arms.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Gold Wing Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Wasn't sure whether other rider was waving or making an obscene gesture.
    9. Afraid might get frostbite if hand is removed from heated grip.
    8. Has arthritis and the past 400 miles have made it difficult to raise arm.
    7. Reflection from etched windshield momentarily blinded him.
    6. The espresso machine just finished.
    5. Was actually asleep when other rider waved.
    4. Was in a three-way conference call with stockbroker and accessories dealer.
    3. Was distracted by odd shaped blip on radar screen.
    2. Was simultaneously adjusting the air suspension, seat height, programmable CD player,
    seat temperature and satellite navigation system.
    1. Couldn't find the "auto wave back" button on dashboard.

    Top 10 Reasons Sport bikers Don't Wave:
    10. They have not been riding long enough to know they're supposed to.
    9. They're going too fast to have time enough to register the movement and respond.
    8. You weren't wearing bright enough gear.
    7. If they stick their arm out going that fast they'll rip it out of the socket.
    6. They're too occupied with trying to get rid of their chicken strips.
    5. They look way too cool with both hands on the bars or they don't want to unbalance
    themselves while standing on the tank.
    4. Their skin tight-Kevlar-ballistic-nylon-kangaroo-leather suits prevent any position other than fetal.
    3. Raising an arm allows bugs into the armholes of their tank tops.
    2. It's too hard to do one-handed stoppies.
    1. They were too busy slipping their flip-flop back on.

    Top Ten Reasons Why BMW Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. New Aerostich suit too stiff to raise arm.
    9. Removing a hand from the bars is considered "bad form."
    8. Your bike isn't weird enough looking to justify acknowledgment.
    7. Too sore from an 800-mile day on a stock "comfort" seat.
    6. Too busy programming the GPS, monitoring radar, listening to ipod, XM, or talking on the cell phone.
    5. He's an Iron Butt rider and you're not!.
    4. Wires from Gerbings is too short.
    3. You're not riding the "right kind" of BMW.
    2. You haven't been properly introduced.
    1. Afraid it will be misinterpreted as a friendly gesture.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Dual Sport Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Vibration of knobby tires prevented the rider from taking his hand off the bars.
    9. MX style safety gear was too bright to see you wave.
    8. His front fender prevents you seeing him wave back.
    7. Was too busy configuring his GPS/Enduro Roll/FishFinder.
    6. His rain/wind/thorn/bug/bird proof thousand-dollar jacket won't allow it.
    5. Was too busy re-arranging his 500 pounds of soft-sided luggage.
    4. Doesn't recognize a wave in any language other than German.
    3. Too busy splitting lanes/filtering through traffic.
    2. One handed wheelies are not easy.
    1. On single-track trails you stop, not wave.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Spyder Ryders Don't Wave Back
    10. They'll NEVER be able to find the horn or turnsignal again, if they move their hand on the grip.
    9. They keep a "Death Grip" on the bars in case of the dreaded DPS failure.
    8. They were too busy trying to figure out how to change playlists on their I-Pod.
    7. They were "Bluetoothing" with their dealer regarding the latest farkle delivery.
    6. They couldn't find the "Auto-Wave" Button. (Hey; It's a Limited!)
    5. Their passenger was distracting them with some nonsense about "Having to stop for a break"...
    4. They were mentally rehearsing the "explanation", that they'll need to give their Spouse for the
    last Farkling episode.
    3. They were trying to remember the best way to cross Nebraska. (Answer: while asleep, in the back of a van!)
    2. They were too terrified to take their eyes off of the display; lest the dreaded "Orange Screen of Death"
    make an appearance.
    1. You crossed paths while they were setting the cruise control, changing the voice on their GPS, raising
    the windshield, and changing the volume on the radio.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Conventional Trike Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Their arms were too tired to raise... no power steering!
    9. Your "Unusual" configuration has them confused. They thought you were going the other way!
    8. They just had hit a pothole, and felt their first bad "Head-Shake". They're not letting go of anything!
    7. They are lost in thought: How much is their Trike worth on trade, for a new Spyder?
    6. They're still laughing at thgemselves for trying to put their feet down at the last stoplight.
    5. The last time they waved at a "foreign" bike; their riding buddies made them buy the beer!
    4. Didn't know WHAT you were, as you went by.
    3. They only wave at conventionals...
    2. They thought that their passenger waved... (She was asleep!)
    1. The glare from all of the chrome had them momentarily blinded.
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

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  22. #47
    Very Active Member ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Well... if this is gonna be about who waves; and who doesn't:

    It's time to break this out again!


    Top Ten Reasons Why Harley Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Afraid it will invalidate warranty.
    9. Leather and studs make it too heavy to raise arm.
    8. Refuse to wave to anyone whose bike is already paid for.
    7. Afraid to let go of handlebars because they might vibrate off.
    6. Rushing wind would blow scabs off the new tattoos.
    5. Angry because they just took out second mortgage to pay luxury tax on new Harley.
    4. Just discovered the fine print in owner's manual and realized H-D is partially owned by Honda.
    3. Can't tell if other riders are waving or just reaching to cover their ears like everyone else.
    2. Remembers the last time a Harley rider waved back, he impaled his hand on spiked helmet.
    1. They're too tired from spending hours polishing all that chrome to lift their arms.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Gold Wing Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Wasn't sure whether other rider was waving or making an obscene gesture.
    9. Afraid might get frostbite if hand is removed from heated grip.
    8. Has arthritis and the past 400 miles have made it difficult to raise arm.
    7. Reflection from etched windshield momentarily blinded him.
    6. The espresso machine just finished.
    5. Was actually asleep when other rider waved.
    4. Was in a three-way conference call with stockbroker and accessories dealer.
    3. Was distracted by odd shaped blip on radar screen.
    2. Was simultaneously adjusting the air suspension, seat height, programmable CD player,
    seat temperature and satellite navigation system.
    1. Couldn't find the "auto wave back" button on dashboard.

    Top 10 Reasons Sport bikers Don't Wave:
    10. They have not been riding long enough to know they're supposed to.
    9. They're going too fast to have time enough to register the movement and respond.
    8. You weren't wearing bright enough gear.
    7. If they stick their arm out going that fast they'll rip it out of the socket.
    6. They're too occupied with trying to get rid of their chicken strips.
    5. They look way too cool with both hands on the bars or they don't want to unbalance
    themselves while standing on the tank.
    4. Their skin tight-Kevlar-ballistic-nylon-kangaroo-leather suits prevent any position other than fetal.
    3. Raising an arm allows bugs into the armholes of their tank tops.
    2. It's too hard to do one-handed stoppies.
    1. They were too busy slipping their flip-flop back on.

    Top Ten Reasons Why BMW Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. New Aerostich suit too stiff to raise arm.
    9. Removing a hand from the bars is considered "bad form."
    8. Your bike isn't weird enough looking to justify acknowledgment.
    7. Too sore from an 800-mile day on a stock "comfort" seat.
    6. Too busy programming the GPS, monitoring radar, listening to ipod, XM, or talking on the cell phone.
    5. He's an Iron Butt rider and you're not!.
    4. Wires from Gerbings is too short.
    3. You're not riding the "right kind" of BMW.
    2. You haven't been properly introduced.
    1. Afraid it will be misinterpreted as a friendly gesture.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Dual Sport Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Vibration of knobby tires prevented the rider from taking his hand off the bars.
    9. MX style safety gear was too bright to see you wave.
    8. His front fender prevents you seeing him wave back.
    7. Was too busy configuring his GPS/Enduro Roll/FishFinder.
    6. His rain/wind/thorn/bug/bird proof thousand-dollar jacket won't allow it.
    5. Was too busy re-arranging his 500 pounds of soft-sided luggage.
    4. Doesn't recognize a wave in any language other than German.
    3. Too busy splitting lanes/filtering through traffic.
    2. One handed wheelies are not easy.
    1. On single-track trails you stop, not wave.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Spyder Ryders Don't Wave Back
    10. They'll NEVER be able to find the horn or turnsignal again, if they move their hand on the grip.
    9. They keep a "Death Grip" on the bars in case of the dreaded DPS failure.
    8. They were too busy trying to figure out how to change playlists on their I-Pod.
    7. They were "Bluetoothing" with their dealer regarding the latest farkle delivery.
    6. They couldn't find the "Auto-Wave" Button. (Hey; It's a Limited!)
    5. Their passenger was distracting them with some nonsense about "Having to stop for a break"...
    4. They were mentally rehearsing the "explanation", that they'll need to give their Spouse for the
    last Farkling episode.
    3. They were trying to remember the best way to cross Nebraska. (Answer: while asleep, in the back of a van!)
    2. They were too terrified to take their eyes off of the display; lest the dreaded "Orange Screen of Death"
    make an appearance.
    1. You crossed paths while they were setting the cruise control, changing the voice on their GPS, raising
    the windshield, and changing the volume on the radio.

    Top Ten Reasons Why Conventional Trike Riders Don't Wave Back
    10. Their arms were too tired to raise... no power steering!
    9. Your "Unusual" configuration has them confused. They thought you were going the other way!
    8. They just had hit a pothole, and felt their first bad "Head-Shake". They're not letting go of anything!
    7. They are lost in thought: How much is their Trike worth on trade, for a new Spyder?
    6. They're still laughing at thgemselves for trying to put their feet down at the last stoplight.
    5. The last time they waved at a "foreign" bike; their riding buddies made them buy the beer!
    4. Didn't know WHAT you were, as you went by.
    3. They only wave at conventionals...
    2. They thought that their passenger waved... (She was asleep!)
    1. The glare from all of the chrome had them momentarily blinded.
    I had a feeling...and it would be just a matter of time. Good subject, and with new people coming on daily--they get to see what some of the regulars already know.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)

    MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles

    IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
    2020 F3L , Magma Red

  23. #48
    Active Member ES44AC's Avatar
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    Sep 2015
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    Mocksville,NC
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    Default

    Well a Ultra CVO starts at $40k !
    2021 RTL Marsala Dark Edition 4.13.2021
    Lamonster Riser
    Spyder Extras Docking station
    Zumo XT (my own Plug & Play cable)
    WrapMySpyder Carbon fiber partial kit.
    Baja Ron ultra performance sway bar and end links

    2015 RTS SM6 Intense Red
    born on date 3/2015 (mine on 9/12/15)
    Sold on 4.13.2021 33k of fun.

  24. #49
    Active Member CA Railwhale's Avatar
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    Default harley owners

    I was talking to a long-time Harley owner a couple of weeks ago and he was very dissatisfied with his newest Harley. It's about three years old and all the parts are made in China or Taiwan. He says they don't hold up like the older made in USA parts. He bought the Harley because it's made in the USA, and is pretty ticked that the parts are imported.

  25. #50
    Active Member
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    Gold Coast, Australia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    You have to understand that HD is a clothing company that happens to also sell motorcycles. They make far more off T-shirts than they do from bikes.
    They're not attracting new riders either.

    But yes, all MC sales are down.. people don't have the disposable income they used to. BRP isn't immune to it either.

    That being said, Polaris has sold more Indian motorcycles in the past year than all of their Victory sales were for the entire lifespan of the product(17 years).
    Totally agree with clothing company. A few of us have been waiting for the Hardly Rideable bubble to burst. Looks like it has and now rumours of them going to Thailand?

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