Best ECU flash results ever for me

[jcthorne]

Iv'e been testing ECU reflashes for the 1330 motor and the finale product is complete.

Here is where the finale product is at for performance.
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds

All limitations and restrictions have been removed, " more that 60 total". I suspect F3 owners will be knocking on 140 mph top end. One look at the video and I say OMG everytime

Quick question for you. How many miles have you driven the bike since the reflash? As it seems you have gone several iterations, perhaps how many miles total on the reflashed ECU? How is your everyday startup and driveability? Any idiosyncrasies you have noted good or poor? Fuel milage change? I would expect with more use of the right grip the fuel consumption might increase but cruising mileage may improve? Stay the same? Suffer a bit?

[Firefly]

Certainly some good info, but can someone chime in on these 'governor' statements.
At least with the 990 V-twin, the only 'governor' was on RPM's.... not speed.
Are there actual SPEED limits with the 1330, or is it simply controlled by limiting the RPM's?

I know I never hit a speed limiter on my GS, just ran out of road when I was at 128 (which is about 6 high compared to my Garmin at that speed). The main limiter was wind resistance.

I know of those who have been to 140 on their F3.
So is there an actual speed limiter? If so what is it???

I'm personally more interested in QUICKNESS over SPEED.

[Bob Denman]

Someone has an 09 GS with the Aerocharger on it and Barnett clutch for $9,000.
If I had extra cash laying around I'd buy it.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...-CAN-AM-SPYDER

How tempted can we make you?

[Spyd_Piper]

To me, i use slip on in reference to a muffler. And full exhaust is heads back.

Specific spyder testing has been in place since April 2017. No clue on cumulative miles.
The Spyder ecu (Bosch 17.8.5) has been used in many Canam models since 2011. Cumulative re-mappings? (including tests) < 4 digits
Thinking about cumulative hours - just gave me a migraine.

There is no change to stock under 60% throttle. Gas milage or fuel consumption has no change.
If you drive more open throttle, fuel consumption will increase.
Fuel milage under wot conditions - If an engine makes more power - its burning more fuel. As that what makes power. Burning fuel. (Granted, more oxygen is needed to support it. You certainly can't just dump fuel)

Firefly,
The V990 had mechanical Throttle bodies. Rev limit (engine rpm) and engine power output are its limits. Older ones had a different ecu. (Siemens VDO MSE 3.7) And yes, this did have a speed limit. Don't know off hand what it is but could find it if i wasn't busy. There are different kinds of limiters. Hard limits. Or soft / gradual. That reduce power by ignition timing. It may of been set higher than achievable. Or it could be that the timing reduction couldn't reduce power enough to stop speed gain.
They key word you used is - run out of road. Meaning it takes a long time to reach a given speed. If there is any speed liming at play, and its removed. The speed can be achieved far faster.

Speed limiters and Torque limiters are on EVERY model that has electronic throttle control. All models with 1330 ace have an electronic throttle body.
As mentioned, the limiter is a closing of the throttle. If an F3 owner (or a buddy knew of another buddy who knew another buddy who once seen him in a supermarket, 2 isles down) has freshly greased bearings, wind on his back and enough road - certainly he could obtain whatever speed with less than 30% or 40% throttle. Actual speed limit is limited by power at a low throttle opening.

I know exactly the limits each model or file. I can see it with my own 2 eyes. But i am not going to give specific info or numbers that could help a person that tries to do what we do. There are companies or people that change a bit of timing in the low end. Try to sell run more octane and get more torque. Or claim this bosch ecu is more advanced than an auto world. Or has 100 maps for fuel alone. LMAO. Funny stuff.

If you want to know your limit on your model - hammer down. You will find it. If you want a change in when its delivered (i.e: pull to xx speed before shutting down) then that can easily be done. If you think you slow down at speeds between 80-108mph (model and gear dependant) because you ran put of power - thats not the case at all.

[Firefly]

Fair enough. I figured things would be different with the fly-by-wire setup.

I'm not so much into top-end as to how quickly I can get to 60 or from 40 to 80, etc.....

Have to wait until fall or winter to send mine in.....too much good weather to ride in here in Michigan that I don't want to miss out on....

[Sweetwater]

So... Im not certain, Is this available to be done now? or more research going on. Interested for my 2016 F3S

[Dennis in Lodi]

I'll try to focus the answer more directed to what an RT owner needs to hear. The throttle transition between the stock mapping and the performance mapping is seamless. If I didn't have an AFR gauge hooked up, I wouldn't be able to detect when it first starts. Monster Fuel has been very picky about the importance of this seamless transition throttle area. I have driven an entire tank on the stock mapping and I got my typical 36 mpg. But this is hilly area and does't reflect highway cruising. I have driven two tanks in the sport driving mode where I take what the road offers. I zip up to 100 mph often and power out of different mixed speed corners. Driving like that I drop down to 32 mpg. Driving like a man possessed and determined to risk my life to beat my fast friends on sport bikes, she drinks pretty good. Three of my life time sport bike friends say I ride faster now than I do on my Ninja SX1000. They are stunned at what $350 plus shipping gets.
Below 3,000 rpm there isn't a practical reason to crank the throttle 100% unless your doing a dead stop run. Driving in the sport mode as stated above I get all that fun driving from 4,000 rpm to 7,400 rpm as there is no trophy nor any need for more power while driving like this. Even 5th gear really benefits from the open throttle at very low rpms. I have significantly reduced the need to down shift to get to a power area for getting the bike moving.
But the truth is, FOR ME AND MY STYLE OF BAD DRIVING HABITS, I wouldn't give up the 9,200 red line for nothing. Don't have to use it, except on my annoying friends and their, " it's not a real motorcycle" attitude. If I want, I can power up and lay down 50' of rubber. First gear hits 9,200 red line in just seconds. A second gear shift hits a peak power area and follows through to red line or well over 80 mph. 3rd gear also drops into a peak power area and powers to about 8,900 rpm which is about 98 mph in about 10 seconds. Pretty impressive for an 1,100 pound sail boat. YOUR INDIVIDUAL RESULTS CAN VARY.
Absolutely hands down the best performance gain I have ever gotten for the buck. And I'm as picky of a customer as it gets.

Quick question for you. How many miles have you driven the bike since the reflash? As it seems you have gone several iterations, perhaps how many miles total on the reflashed ECU? How is your everyday startup and driveability? Any idiosyncrasies you have noted good or poor? Fuel milage change? I would expect with more use of the right grip the fuel consumption might increase but cruising mileage may improve? Stay the same? Suffer a bit?

[Spyd_Piper]

So... Im not certain, Is this available to be done now? or more research going on. Interested for my 2016 F3S

Yes. It's available now.
Just in the middle of making some videos, adding a direct web page and a more spyder focus flash sheet.

From requests,
on the testing bench for future is
- sprocket switching programming
- yaw / angle relaxation
- semi-auto gear change smoothness / modifications

[Spyd_Piper]

Fair enough. I figured things would be different with the fly-by-wire setup.

I'm not so much into top-end as to how quickly I can get to 60 or from 40 to 80, etc.....

Have to wait until fall or winter to send mine in.....too much good weather to ride in here in Michigan that I don't want to miss out on....

Had a quick look at a V990 file. It looks to me that the v990 is speed limited at 222kph. (or 138mph). Hard limit. Cuts injectors and spark. This threshold is not verified by me and I am not familiar with different models that could be different. It should pull the same all the way to that threshold. However, they could reduce ignition timing by rpm to limit output a bit.

[Jase]

I know exactly the limits each model or file. I can see it with my own 2 eyes. But i am not going to give specific info or numbers that could help a person that tries to do what we do. There are companies or people that change a bit of timing in the low end. Try to sell run more octane and get more torque. Or claim this bosch ecu is more advanced than an auto world. Or has 100 maps for fuel alone. LMAO. Funny stuff.

If you want to know your limit on your model - hammer down. You will find it. If you want a change in when its delivered (i.e: pull to xx speed before shutting down) then that can easily be done. If you think you slow down at speeds between 80-108mph (model and gear dependant) because you ran put of power - thats not the case at all.

Mate dont come on this forum and start taking the piss out of other people or other companies just to make your self look all high and mighty and the god of all tuners there is no need for it.

You have tuned 1 spyder then tell everyone how your tune is the best.

I have custom tuned many many spyders including 5 people on this forum that i know of since the spyder was released on both the siemens and bosch ecu, i don't claim to be the best and never will but i do know what im doing and what i tell my customers is what i deliver.
I receive 2 -3 ecu's every week from around the world let alone the ones i do in my own back yard with not 1 unhappy customer

There are plenty more companies around that tune these ecu's including canam and do a great job do you see me bagging them?

Why dont you just answer peoples questions with your vast knowledge of spyders and leave it at that (why bag others) it just makes you look narrow minded.

I see you do all your testing on 1 persons spyder by sending his ecu back and forth have you yourself actually ridden a spyder?


To other forum members sorry for the rant i just don't see the need for some to bag others its not needed....
Jason

[PaladinLV]

But . . . you just did!

AJ

just don't see the need for some to bag others its not needed....
Jason

[Firefly]

Had a quick look at a V990 file. It looks to me that the v990 is speed limited at 222kph. (or 138mph). Hard limit. Cuts injectors and spark. This threshold is not verified by me and I am not familiar with different models that could be different. It should pull the same all the way to that threshold. However, they could reduce ignition timing by rpm to limit output a bit.

The 990 was a fly-by-wire. The 998 used in my GS was not. Doesn't really much matter now. Don't want to go that fast anyway... just want to be able to accelerate as quickly as possible.....

[Firefly]

But . . . you just did!

AJ

Technically he 'counter-bagged' him....

Hope this thread doesn't disappear or get shut down.

Once someone joins as a site sponsor then there may not be much posting allowed from others doing tuning. Sponsors are protected, which I fully understand, but also don't want good information censored. Hopefully everyone can place nice and we can all learn!

I'm sure many are able to do this and do a good job. Wish there was a reputable source in the USA... I hate shipping things out of the country... always been a headache for me... even just to Canada... guess they don't want my packages either!

[Spyd_Piper]

Mate dont come on this forum and start taking the piss out of other people or other companies just to make your self look all high and mighty and the god of all tuners there is no need for it.

You have tuned 1 spyder then tell everyone how your tune is the best.

I have custom tuned many many spyders including 5 people on this forum that i know of since the spyder was released on both the siemens and bosch ecu, i don't claim to be the best and never will but i do know what im doing and what i tell my customers is what i deliver.
I receive 2 -3 ecu's every week from around the world let alone the ones i do in my own back yard with not 1 unhappy customer

There are plenty more companies around that tune these ecu's including canam and do a great job do you see me bagging them?

Why dont you just answer peoples questions with your vast knowledge of spyders and leave it at that (why bag others) it just makes you look narrow minded.

I see you do all your testing on 1 persons spyder by sending his ecu back and forth have you yourself actually ridden a spyder?


To other forum members sorry for the rant i just don't see the need for some to bag others its not needed....
Jason

When you post stuff that is blatantly wrong - I am going to call it. Sorry if that gets you all ruffled up. If you don't like it - don't post BS stuff like that in the first place.

[Spyd_Piper]

The only thing i said -
"There are companies or people that change a bit of timing in the low end. Try to sell run more octane and get more torque. Or claim this bosch ecu is more advanced than an auto world. Or has 100 maps for fuel alone. LMAO. Funny stuff"

If you say stuff on a public forum thats not true or is funny. I am going to laugh or I am going to call it. So be it. Not my fault. What I said was true as dirt. There are companies or people like that. There is also a handful of companies/people that are very good at what they do. I didn't say you or your company. I didn't say you fit in either category. Your the one who took offence.

Thats the problem. There is a whole bunch of companies or people tuning different ecu's. And very very few that actually should be.
Everybody and there brother can buy equipment with money. Doesn't mean they understand it or know what they are doing. Maybe be trial and error they find some sort of gain.

People have minds of there own and can make there own assumptions with regards to what company they would want to do business with. Thats all I have to say about that.

As for my goals - you better believe that I strive to be the best. I dissect code, find maps, parameters, new model ecu's, test stuff, blow up engines, find engine limits, limitations and learn on a monthly basis. I am not narrow minded and learning never stops. I am proud to admit that there are very few that are the same.

[Peteoz]

Jase,
As an independent party, I didn't read Spyd Piper's post as a bag of you, but I can see why you have thought it was, taken offence and responded "in kind". I wouldn't like to see either of you take your bat and ball and go home, as you both have so much to offer. I really appreciate what you are doing here

Pete

[fatboy]

i am looking at getting this done soon i got a price for a new module but am not sure if you need to do trans module also

[Spyd_Piper]

i am looking at getting this done soon i got a price for a new module but am not sure if you need to do trans module also

No. Engine mapping is only done in the main ecu.

Future options may be available using the trans ecu. But this would be non engine related and only about gearing changes or YAW / angle sensors etc. At this time, only engine mapping is available.

NOTE: You can't just buy and send a new ecu. The ecu needs to be mated to the bike. It is mated to VIN, Model, Variant, DESS Keys, Dash, DPS power steering unit, air ride and holds bike specific information for device learns etc. And this need to be done BEFORE remapping. Ecu needs to be initialized.

You can buy an ecu and have anybody with BUDS initialize and set it up to your bike. Then send. Otherwise, don't buy a new ecu and send in yours with quick turn around options.

[SpyderCruiser]

As is usually the case with me, think my choices might be a bit different but please comment if I have not chosen wisely. This is all about learning....

Bits of information on lingo in Spydeeland for Spyd_Piper, on all 1330 equipped Spyders, there is a catalytic converter inside the primary muffler under the bike as its shipped from BRP. The typical way of getting rid of it is by installing a primary muffler bypass pipe. There is no part on the diagrams or service manuals referred to as a catalytic converter.

Here you go it is called a cat......

[jcthorne]

So it is. Older versions of the service manuals and parts diagrams all called it the primary muffler. Guess they changed.

No matter really. Was really just trying to help with lingo here on the forum for someone that was trying to come up to speed. Call it what ever you want. To me, its still a primary muffler.

[Dennis in Lodi]

I wanted to share some ULTRA low end test results. This should help the RT or F3 owners who have the higher gearing like my RT. I'm still trying to wrap my head around about how an F3 with a 13% difference in gearing will respond to the flash. With my new data it might provide some insight for what to expect. The following data is more for the owner who just wants to shift less and have improved power for two up passing. With my flash I shift less often now and work 4th and 5th gear much more. If someone can run these test on a stock machine I would love to have the results. Shouldn't get a speeding ticket with this test.

5th gear: 3,000 to 4,000 rpm, 100% throttle, starts at 50 mph ends at 67 mph in about 6 seconds
4th gear: 3,000 to 4,000 rpm, 100% throttle, starts at 42 mph ends at 58 mph in about 5 seconds
3rd gear: 3,000 to 4,000 rpm, 100% throttle, starts at 36 mph ends at 52 mph in about 3 seconds
2nd gear: 2,000 to 4,000 rpm, 100% throttle, starts at 20 mph ends at 40 mph in about 3 seconds
1st gear: 2,000 to red line 8,800 rpm, 100% throttle, starts at 15 mph to 65 mph in about 6 seconds.

It was hard for me to read the top speed in 1st gear as there was a sling shot effect after the rev limiter. I saw top readings as high as 67 after the rev limiter kicked in.

[fatboy]

two questions i notice there is no change with the first 60% THROTTLE why power commander is the same.

[Spyd_Piper]

two questions i notice there is no change with the first 60% THROTTLE why power commander is the same.

Closed loop.
This is Emission based logic. There is a factory narrowband oxygen sensor in the exhaust which feeds back a signals to ecu which indicates where the stoich switch point it. 14.7 AFR.

The factory system will continuously try to keep fuel targeted to achieve this at idle and low / lights loads. Good for emissions. Not so much for Performance or gas milage, But milage is decent enough and who needs performance at lighter throttle poisons. Just open it up more. So no need to change. Also, there is no issue then with emission laws or test failures when left alone.

Fuel tuners like Power Commander can't adjust it. The factory system keeps counteracting any adjustment. To the point where a fault code will set. So by not adjusting / locking out. It is allowed in California and can be used all elsewhere without issue.

[the2pid1]

Is there an advantage over my 998 twin with modified exhaust and two brothers racing juice pack? In running about 126 hp now and I would like a safe and sound 150 with no speed limiter. I can run 91 or 93 octane now but with the fuel controller it dumps fuel and stinks too much.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Is there an advantage over my 998 twin with modified exhaust and two brothers racing juice pack? In running about 126 hp now and I would like a safe and sound 150 with no speed limiter. I can run 91 or 93 octane now but with the fuel controller it dumps fuel and stinks too much.

I seriously doubt that number ...... The Spyders are computer controlled and won't allow that kind of HP increase ..... unless the computer program ( ECU ) is modified ...... Did you have a Dyno test to verify your HP figure ????? ................. Mike