F3-T: First Ryde Report

[newbert]

The lousy weather here finally cleared today, so I decided to take my first real ryde on my 2016 F3-T. The ryde was on country roads thru mostly farmland in Washington County. No traffic and a beautiful day - what more could I ask for? Here are my observations (with a few questions):

1. First of all, is this thing fun? Hell, Yeah!

2. I had a few scary moments on portions of road with a crown or slope down to the right - especially if it also turned left at that moment. The Spyder wanted to go off the road to the right and I had to really fight it a couple times. But on well-graded roads, it was great. Any hints on how to handle poorly graded roads?

3. I find that my right hand falls asleep. Is it because I'm gripping the throttle too tight? (I don't think I am. But if I grip it any looser, how do you maintain throttle control?)

4. My main complaint continues to be pain/tightness/cramping in the hips. I'll have to play with the foot pegs a bit to try and address this. But I'm also thinking that a narrower and slightly longer seat my do the trick for me as well, since I get relief when I scotch my butt onto the very front of the passenger seat and straighten out my legs. Any suggestions on seats that might fit the bill?

5. Turning left from a standing start is still a bit of a problem (due to unexpected acceleration), but it's getting better. I'm thinking that it may be that it's a bit of a reach to stay on the throttle when the handlebars are turned to the left. So maybe I need the bar adjusted as well. Thoughts?

6. Oh - and did I mention that this thing as a hell of a lot of fun (in spite of the cramps)!

Thanks.

[Chupaca]

Your gonna need more time on the road. Rule of thumb around 500 miles to finally relax which will help most of your issues. You will also get used to things and may still need the adjustments you are thinking of already and maybe not. But it is a lot of fun getting to know her... let us know how it goes....

[JayBros]

Gene's right on the money! Regarding the hip cramps, do you do any kind of hip flexibility evercises? Suggest you look at some yoga hip stretches; they're a hell of lot cheaper than a new seat -- more money to go to other farkles!

[BoilerAnimal]

Glad you like it! As time goes by you will absolutely love it!

As said, it will take some time to get the hang of it. Try to let your arms just hang on the grips, don't try to fight to keep it on the road. Spyders pitch side to side due to the uneveness of the road. It's rolling side to side and, in most cases, is not actually going off in some undetermined direction, though you may swear that it is.

Try staying on good roads at first to gain confidence in it's steering. Remember, it's most likely just you feeling the undulations in the road. If it's actually very skittish regarding the steering, make sure your front tires are at the proper pressure and are within .5 (half) of a pound of each other. If that doesn't help, have it laser aligned. I thought my Spyder handled pretty good (no problems with road crown, but some with cornering and windy days) but decided to have it "Squared Away" by Joe and Ann. The difference was AMAZING! Give it some time and try not to fight the steering but if it doesn't improve, get the alignment done using lasers.

There is a sticky about do's don'ts regarding Spyders. Read it if you haven't already, lot's of good info there. I have an RT, so I can't address the other issues.

Be safe and get to know your Spyder! They're the most fun you can have, legally!

[Slagiatt]

That will help with the throttle control without squeezing the throttle. Cheapest high-value mod possible.

[bushrat]

Hi Newbert:
You and I are both new owners and new ryders; we have each bought Spyders recently, and I have seen/read some of your earlier posts; your questions have often paralleled my own. I'm on a new 2017 F3 Ltd. I've just turned up about 800 miles after 3 rain-filled weeks. I have to agree with the advice that more experienced folks have offered above. Here are some thoughts from an equally new ryder with perhaps barely a few more miles than you have.

Both you and the Spyder are new - you're both breaking in and getting used to roads, traffic, obstacles, etc. You're both tight and just beginning to learn to flex. You and your bike will both loosen up and relax, given a bit of time. I said pretty much the same things you just wrote about when getting off after my first few rydes: I found the Spyder very road-senstive, even 'twitchy' at first. Yes, it did seem to react to camber and surface changes. That's lessening now with a few hundred miles on both of us. The bike is less stiff, and I'm also ryding more relaxed. I have hip cramp problems too. It was one reason I went with the F3 instead of an RT - I simply found the F3 less bothersome to my hips and right leg, which felt cramped on the RT. I wasn't going to pass up owning a Spyder, even if it meant a sore butt/stiff hip for a while. My wife chides me and insists that Yoga will help; probably I'll give in and try - she is often right, though I'm not always quick to admit it. I have floorboards in mid-position. I may think about moving them a bit forward; instinct tells me that may help. I'm going to wait a few more months, then perhaps think about a seat change, something along the lines you mention. Before that though, I'm more likely to swap out my low windshield for a medium height F4, or similar. When turning, try leaning forward a bit, and into the turn; you'll be a bit closer to the controls. Your handlebar position can be altered, if need be, but you may find leaning a bit does everything you need, at no further expense.

Give yourself some more time before making a lot of changes. Both you and your bike need the break-in period to adjust. Pick better roads, preferably low traffic, paved, secondary roads to enjoy. Stay well within your ryding and knowledge limits while you educate yourself. Try flattening out your hands occasionally while ryding, stretching/pointing your fingers forward with your palms on the grips. You still have control, you can still react, if needed. My semi-arthritic right hand can become numb, too, sometimes. I find this finger exercise helpful. It also teaches me to relax.

Just a few thoughts from someone in the same boat (on the same bike) as you. We're both having fun, and on the learning curve.

Cheers.

[ARtraveler]

Glad to see the write up of your impressions of the new F3T. Give it about 500 miles and then do a comparison again. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Since the F3 is "adjustable" that is where I recommend starting first. Once you do that, you muscles need to acclimate to the new ride. Get them built up and the cramping issues may go away.

There are some good "how to drive the twisties" recommendations in the do's and don'ts. They may help also.

There are a lot of expensive fixes. I would recommend the above first.

[bmccaffrey]

If your accelerate turning to left grip is way to tight.
Laser alignment will help with crown roads and perhaps different sway bar.

Good luck and enjoy

[newbert]

Hi Newbert:
You and I are both new owners and new ryders; we have each bought Spyders recently, and I have seen/read some of your earlier posts; your questions have often paralleled my own. I'm on a new 2017 F3 Ltd. I've just turned up about 800 miles after 3 rain-filled weeks. I have to agree with the advice that more experienced folks have offered above. Here are some thoughts from an equally new ryder with perhaps barely a few more miles than you have.

Both you and the Spyder are new - you're both breaking in and getting used to roads, traffic, obstacles, etc. You're both tight and just beginning to learn to flex. You and your bike will both loosen up and relax, given a bit of time. I said pretty much the same things you just wrote about when getting off after my first few rydes: I found the Spyder very road-senstive, even 'twitchy' at first. Yes, it did seem to react to camber and surface changes. That's lessening now with a few hundred miles on both of us. The bike is less stiff, and I'm also ryding more relaxed. I have hip cramp problems too. It was one reason I went with the F3 instead of an RT - I simply found the F3 less bothersome to my hips and right leg, which felt cramped on the RT. I wasn't going to pass up owning a Spyder, even if it meant a sore butt/stiff hip for a while. My wife chides me and insists that Yoga will help; probably I'll give in and try - she is often right, though I'm not always quick to admit it. I have floorboards in mid-position. I may think about moving them a bit forward; instinct tells me that may help. I'm going to wait a few more months, then perhaps think about a seat change, something along the lines you mention. Before that though, I'm more likely to swap out my low windshield for a medium height F4, or similar. When turning, try leaning forward a bit, and into the turn; you'll be a bit closer to the controls. Your handlebar position can be altered, if need be, but you may find leaning a bit does everything you need, at no further expense.

Give yourself some more time before making a lot of changes. Both you and your bike need the break-in period to adjust. Pick better roads, preferably low traffic, paved, secondary roads to enjoy. Stay well within your ryding and knowledge limits while you educate yourself. Try flattening out your hands occasionally while ryding, stretching/pointing your fingers forward with your palms on the grips. You still have control, you can still react, if needed. My semi-arthritic right hand can become numb, too, sometimes. I find this finger exercise helpful. It also teaches me to relax.

Just a few thoughts from someone in the same boat (on the same bike) as you. We're both having fun, and on the learning curve.

Cheers.

Bushrat - Your post sounds like the two of us are living in parallel universes! I will take your advice (and the advice of others here) to take my time and wait before doing anything drastic. (But, the problem is that I'm an impatient sort....). So far, I only have about 130 miles on the Spyder, but I plan on getting out and ryding everyday weather-permitting.

Look forward to hearing more of your experiences.

[newbert]

Another top ten day today weather-wise, so I went out again for a ride, trying to keep in mind most of the advice I've gotten in this thread. What I learned today:

1. How to deal with cramps (especially hand cramps): R-E-L-A-X your grip on the throttle! I had to keep reminding myself when my hand started to fall asleep, but it works. I assume relaxing will be easier to do with experience. I still got cramps in my hips towards the end of the ride (at about the 40 mile mark), and I KNOW that they tend to come on from tense-ing up, so I'll continue to work on that.

2. LH turns from a standing start (uncontrolled throttle) continues to be a problem. I really have to work on that!

-- Now a question or two. Both are with regards to the semi-automatic transmission.

3. When I approach a Stop sign or red light, I brake early and let the Spyder do the downshifting for me. However, I find that the last few downshifts are harsh, with the Spyder speeding up momentarily (stuttering? - but not engine stutter) until I come to a stop. I think it's because I was releasing the throttle totally (900 rpm) as I was slowing down. Finally, toward the end of the ride, I tried holding the throttle at 1200 rpm or so as it went down thru the gears and this was much smoother. Is this normal behavior? Should I hold the rpm's slightly above minimum as the semi-automatic transmission downshifts thru the gears when I'm coming to a stop?

4. Finally - my dealer told me to upshift at about 3000rpm, and that feels about right to me. But that results in shifting into 6th gear at about 45 or 50 mph (on a level road). This is on country/county roads and seems a bit earlier than what I had expected. For those of you are non-aggressive riders, do you have the same experience?

Thanks!

[Slowpoke387]

Another top ten day today weather-wise, so I went out again for a ride, trying to keep in mind most of the advice I've gotten in this thread. What I learned today:

1. How to deal with cramps (especially hand cramps): R-E-L-A-X your grip on the throttle! I had to keep reminding myself when my hand started to fall asleep, but it works. I assume relaxing will be easier to do with experience. I still got cramps in my hips towards the end of the ride (at about the 40 mile mark), and I KNOW that they tend to come on from tense-ing up, so I'll continue to work on that.

2. LH turns from a standing start (uncontrolled throttle) continues to be a problem. I really have to work on that!

-- Now a question or two. Both are with regards to the semi-automatic transmission.

3. When I approach a Stop sign or red light, I brake early and let the Spyder do the downshifting for me. However, I find that the last few downshifts are harsh, with the Spyder speeding up momentarily (stuttering? - but not engine stutter) until I come to a stop. I think it's because I was releasing the throttle totally (900 rpm) as I was slowing down. Finally, toward the end of the ride, I tried holding the throttle at 1200 rpm or so as it went down thru the gears and this was much smoother. Is this normal behavior? Should I hold the rpm's slightly above minimum as the semi-automatic transmission downshifts thru the gears when I'm coming to a stop?

4. Finally - my dealer told me to upshift at about 3000rpm, and that feels about right to me. But that results in shifting into 6th gear at about 45 or 50 mph (on a level road). This is on country/county roads and seems a bit earlier than what I had expected. For those of you are non-aggressive riders, do you have the same experience?

Thanks!

Upshift at 4000. Seamless upshifts at that rpm. Also dont let the machine downshift for you. Do it yourself at 3000 and you will see a giant improvement. Dont wait for the machine to do it on its own. Try that and buy me a beer afterwards lol.

[Peteoz]

The slight surging as the F3 changes down is normal, Newbert, as the F3 tries to match revs to gears. It was very off putting for me on the test ride, as the F3 appeared to be accelerating as I slowed for a corner. The salesman apologised for not mentioning it to me pre ride. You quickly get used to it.

Also, like Slowpoke, I like to change up at around 4000, and down at around 3000 (it also reduces the brief "surging" you feel) but I don't have any issue with letting the F3 downshift on its own. You will get a zillion (well, maybe only a million), opinions on the correct revs at which to change. Just find your own comfort point......BUT....make sure that those who are offering advice also ride a 1330, not a high revving 990?.

Pete

[bushrat]

Hi Newbert:
Me again, from the parallel F3 Universe. Like you, the missus and I rode again today on the 2017 Ltd. Weather was too good to miss. Just a short ride, about 40 miles round trip for an ice cream and back. Glad you're learning to relax; stretch those fingers straight out with the twist grips just resting in the crotch of your open hand between the palm and your thumb. Keep practicing those left turn standing starts; maybe find an unused school or plaza parking lot where you don't have other traffic around.

Re your (and my) hip issues: today I rode with a car seat cushion about 1/2" thick between my bum and seat. More comfort and less pain. Tomorrow, I'm going to try a double thickness. If it adds to my comfort, I may consider trying a sheepskin pad, or perhaps an Air Hawk pad. All these alternatives are cheaper than swapping out a new seat. I plan to do a lot of experimenting first before changing.

Lastly, you don't need to use all your gears (upshifts) all the time. If you're in a lower speed zone, like in town or on a slower road, just ride along in 3rd or 4th. keeping your revs at 3500 or 4000. You can go up to 5th or 6th and loaf along if you like, but not necessary. When decelerating from higher gears, I, like Slowpoke and Peteoz, also find the SE6 computer-guided downshift program to kick in more slowly than I would like. I tend to prefer downshifting and engine-braking, without overtaxing the system. I agree with these others that fairly smooth and seamless downshifting can take place around 3000 rpm, whereas the BRP program doesn't seem inclined to chime in until 1800-2000, and even less when going down to 2nd and 1st. I like to feel the motor working underneath me rather than coasting or approaching a 'lug' mark, so I downshift rather than wait. Others have different thoughts and opinions. Just be sure that drivers behind know what you are doing. By downshifting rather than braking, they don't get the benefit of warning from your brake light coming on. A quick tap or two on the pedal helps alert them. I usually let the bike do the last two downshifts (2nd and 1st) even though they feel 'jerkier' than my own. It's tolerable. By then, I'm fully on the brake anyway.

Keep having fun and putting on the break-in miles. You'll soon begin to notice lots of improvement in you and your bike.

[newbert]

Hi Newbert:
Me again, from the parallel F3 Universe. Like you, the missus and I rode again today on the 2017 Ltd. Weather was too good to miss. Just a short ride, about 40 miles round trip for an ice cream and back. Glad you're learning to relax; stretch those fingers straight out with the twist grips just resting in the crotch of your open hand between the palm and your thumb. Keep practicing those left turn standing starts; maybe find an unused school or plaza parking lot where you don't have other traffic around.

Re your (and my) hip issues: today I rode with a car seat cushion about 1/2" thick between my bum and seat. More comfort and less pain. Tomorrow, I'm going to try a double thickness. If it adds to my comfort, I may consider trying a sheepskin pad, or perhaps an Air Hawk pad. All these alternatives are cheaper than swapping out a new seat. I plan to do a lot of experimenting first before changing.

Lastly, you don't need to use all your gears (upshifts) all the time. If you're in a lower speed zone, like in town or on a slower road, just ride along in 3rd or 4th. keeping your revs at 3500 or 4000. You can go up to 5th or 6th and loaf along if you like, but not necessary. When decelerating from higher gears, I, like Slowpoke and Peteoz, also find the SE6 computer-guided downshift program to kick in more slowly than I would like. I tend to prefer downshifting and engine-braking, without overtaxing the system. I agree with these others that fairly smooth and seamless downshifting can take place around 3000 rpm, whereas the BRP program doesn't seem inclined to chime in until 1800-2000, and even less when going down to 2nd and 1st. I like to feel the motor working underneath me rather than coasting or approaching a 'lug' mark, so I downshift rather than wait. Others have different thoughts and opinions. Just be sure that drivers behind know what you are doing. By downshifting rather than braking, they don't get the benefit of warning from your brake light coming on. A quick tap or two on the pedal helps alert them. I usually let the bike do the last two downshifts (2nd and 1st) even though they feel 'jerkier' than my own. It's tolerable. By then, I'm fully on the brake anyway.

Keep having fun and putting on the break-in miles. You'll soon begin to notice lots of improvement in you and your bike.

Thanks for your thoughts, Bushrat.

WRT hip pain - I've also surmised that a slightly higher seat (or lower pegs/footrest) would relieve much of my hip cramping, but was reluctant to add a cushion between me and seat due to (admittedly vaguely perceived) safety issues. Did you find your cushion sliding around or did it stay in place for you during the whole ride?

...and thanks to all for the downshifting advice. Something else for me to work on.

[bushrat]

newbert, I used only a loose pad, not very thick and about 14" or so in diameter. It had a slightly 'quilted' surface and didn't slide around at all; I felt no safety concerns. I wondered about that possibility before trying, but found no reason to worry while out. We were just quietly cruising, occasionally at higher speeds. There were a few twisties along the way, but no sense of being out of contact with the seat. I'm going to try doubling up on the padding today. If I sense any sliding, I'll likely just tape things down temporarily to prevent. Overall, I did get some sense of modified comfort - i.e., less stiffness and soreness after I dismounted, and less onset of strain while I was ryding. Trial and error; all part of the learning process. There will be a solution at some point. I enjoy the Spyder too much to ever consider surrendering. Looks like another great day for getting out on the roads. Happy 4th to you!!!

[carsong]

I have had my 2018 F3t for about two weeks, now. I have been experiencing everything you have. So happy to see your post, and see that I'm not alone. When I received my bike, the pegs were set at the #3 position. They had to order the brake linkage rod, in order to move the pegs forward. It came a few days later, and I installed it, and moved the pegs to the #5 position. Wow! That made a huge difference in my comfort, and feeling of control. I am about 6'3", with a 32" inseam. I have put about 600 miles on the Spyder, and it just gets more and more comfortable. My only problem, now, is riding at 70 mph on the highway. I'm used to riding a Honda Gold Wing, and I think the problem might be the wind buffeting my upper body and head. I've ordered an F4 windscreen, which should do the trick. I had one on my Gold Wing, and it was amazing.

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

About your right hand falling asleep. Use your cruise control more often on open roads, and better yet get aftermarket grips. They make all the difference in the world.

[JackSA]

Another top ten day today weather-wise, so I went out again for a ride, trying to keep in mind most of the advice I've gotten in this thread. What I learned today:

1. How to deal with cramps (especially hand cramps): R-E-L-A-X your grip on the throttle! I had to keep reminding myself when my hand started to fall asleep, but it works. I assume relaxing will be easier to do with experience. I still got cramps in my hips towards the end of the ride (at about the 40 mile mark), and I KNOW that they tend to come on from tense-ing up, so I'll continue to work on that.

2. LH turns from a standing start (uncontrolled throttle) continues to be a problem. I really have to work on that!

-- Now a question or two. Both are with regards to the semi-automatic transmission.

3. When I approach a Stop sign or red light, I brake early and let the Spyder do the downshifting for me. However, I find that the last few downshifts are harsh, with the Spyder speeding up momentarily (stuttering? - but not engine stutter) until I come to a stop. I think it's because I was releasing the throttle totally (900 rpm) as I was slowing down. Finally, toward the end of the ride, I tried holding the throttle at 1200 rpm or so as it went down thru the gears and this was much smoother. Is this normal behavior? Should I hold the rpm's slightly above minimum as the semi-automatic transmission downshifts thru the gears when I'm coming to a stop?

4. Finally - my dealer told me to upshift at about 3000rpm, and that feels about right to me. But that results in shifting into 6th gear at about 45 or 50 mph (on a level road). This is on country/county roads and seems a bit earlier than what I had expected. For those of you are non-aggressive riders, do you have the same experience?

Thanks!

Your problem with acceleration when turning is that your bars are too far from the body. I corrected that by installing Rox Risers. You will experience the difference. You reach can be adjusted, and even the cramping is better. I installed the Rox risers after about 4000 kms, and now have 23000 kms of happy riding under the belt.

[PaladinLV]

Sounds like you have the throttle opened a small amount as you are braking.
I too had this problem the first few days as I relearned the feel of my ElectraGlide.
Also about crowns on road and going towards off road. There is an old biker statement - You go were you are LOOKING. Make sure you are keeping your eyes on where you want to go on the road.

AJ

"3. When I approach a Stop sign or red light, I brake early and let the Spyder do the downshifting for me. However, I find that the last few downshifts are harsh, with the Spyder speeding up momentarily (stuttering? - but not engine stutter) until I come to a stop. I think it's because I was releasing the throttle totally (900 rpm) as I was slowing down. Finally, toward the end of the ride, I tried holding the throttle at 1200 rpm or so as it went down thru the gears and this was much smoother. Is this normal behavior? Should I hold the rpm's slightly above minimum as the semi-automatic transmission downshifts thru the gears when I'm coming to a stop?"

[Zoot]

About your right hand falling asleep. Use your cruise control more often on open roads, and better yet get aftermarket grips. They make all the difference in the world.

Try Grip Puppies or something similar - a foam wrap which slides over your grips. Easy on easy off, much easier than installing new grips and you can see if the diameter increase / vibration damping make a difference for you.

[Rattlebars]

the lousy weather here finally cleared today, so i decided to take my first real ryde on my 2016 f3-t. The ryde was on country roads thru mostly farmland in washington county. No traffic and a beautiful day - what more could i ask for? Here are my observations (with a few questions):

1. First of all, is this thing fun? Hell, yeah!


2. I had a few scary moments on portions of road with a crown or slope down to the right - especially if it also turned left at that moment. The spyder wanted to go off the road to the right and i had to really fight it a couple times. But on well-graded roads, it was great. Any hints on how to handle poorly graded roads? Get an enhanced sway bar with solid heim joints. One of our sponsors is Baja Ron. It is by far the best addition I made.

5. Turning left from a standing start is still a bit of a problem (due to unexpected acceleration), but it's getting better. I'm thinking that it may be that it's a bit of a reach to stay on the throttle when the handlebars are turned to the left. So maybe i need the bar adjusted as well. Thoughts? see adding a sway bar above. Try steering left by pulling the left bar rather than pushing the right (throttle) bar



thanks.

fun fun fun. There is a learning curve as folks have mentioned> I had NO learning curve having ridden QUADS for years and years. quadinwoods.jpg

[40Xshooter]

Hi Newbert:


Re your (and my) hip issues: today I rode with a car seat cushion about 1/2" thick between my bum and seat. More comfort and less pain. Tomorrow, I'm going to try a double thickness. If it adds to my comfort, I may consider trying a sheepskin pad, or perhaps an Air Hawk pad. All these alternatives are cheaper than swapping out a new seat. I plan to do a lot of experimenting first before changing.

You guys should try an AIRHAWK! The wife and I both use them when we ride and they work GREAT. I've had my right hip replaced which is one of the main reasons I traded in my '16 RT-S on the LTD....

Safe riding!