Sensible gun control

[UtahPete]

I think I was called an idiot also!

From previous post I believe that he is not originally from the US, he is an English immigrant. I think therefore it is ingrained in him that guns were a unnecessary evil when he was younger, and I think that will be very hard for him to overcome.

I agree with most of the other post, if I see a sign like that I WILL support that shop, if I see one telling me guns are not allowed, I WILL shop elsewhere. I have noticed that that is the way the majority of gun toting people are. We respect others peoples rights but we also take advantage of the rights our bill of rights gives us. How important was that right to our founding fathers? Important enough that it was the 2nd amendment, not the 12th, 14th, and so on, but the 2nd.

The thing I don't understand is that when people migrate to this country, they must be doing it because they like it more than the country they are leaving, so why in the world do they want to bad mouth, complain, or try to change it once they are here.

Having an open discussion about why those of us who carry do so, and complaining or bad mouthing every post that is about guns in any way is two different things. It is our right to carry, many of us do, we will not stop, so get over it or get out!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE OR UNDERSTAND OUR LAWS YOU MAY LEAVE AT ANY TIME!

I appreciate that you understand my viewpoint even though it differs from your own. To clarify, I came to the US with my parents - it wasn't a personal choice at the time. So, I'm not sure an aversion to guns was ingrained in me from growing up in England; I simply was not even aware of the issue. As a teenager I became fascinated with them because of all the 'western' tv shows at the time. I carried and used guns and other weapons in Vietnam. I even owned a six-shooter for a short while. I enjoy guns - who doesn't? I just don't understand the gun culture mentality and the arguments that are used to justify an almost belligerent attitude toward the right and need to 'carry'.

And, I do not think anyone who 'carries' is an idiot. I'm grateful most of you are not - that would be a scary proposition indeed.

[easysuper]

It always amazes me how many educated folks will take numbers out of content and make up their own "Facts" to prove their side of an argument. I wonder how many "innocent people" are killed by someone driving a car being missed used , I would expect if you looked at the raw numbers there would be far more deaths by automobile than guns. My dad an old Montana cowboy born in 1912 had many cowboy logic sayings and one of them was, Liers can figure but figures don't lie. He also used one that I use occasionally was, " Educated Idiots". He did carry all the time and slept with one under his pillow but respected the use of fire arms and taught me the same. I was taught to NEVER use a fire arm with out the intent to pull the trigger. Another one he always said was that a loaded car was way more dangerous than a loaded gun. Oh by the way I do carry and have used it and have no trouble sleeping at night. I believe that if we were as hard on criminals as we once were and had less fractured family's we would not have the crime we do now and folks would be less fearful about their well being. Now you educated folks go ahead and pick my argument apart and Ill protect your right to do so.
I had read all the post and was not going to say anything until all the "Facts" started flying, they just hit a button.

[ES44AC]

I carry everywhere I go and I don't patronize places that have NO Firearms signs.

Gun Control is the Socialist dream ,Hitler is one of the most well known gun control advocates (he did it for the children). You never disarm the criminals only law abiding victims. Easier for the criminals and the government to control the population and take away any freedoms you have.


I'll just keep calm a carry on.

[JerryB]

Hi Fatcycledaddy,

Re: The thing I don't understand is that when people migrate to this country . . . try to change it once they are here.

I am thinking your ancestors changed this country. Yes/No?

Jerry Baumchen

[Fatcycledaddy]

Current data – In 2014, the most recent year of data available, of 138,593 accidental deaths in the U.S., 38,718 (28%) were due to drug poisoning, 32,834 (24%) to motor vehicle traffic accidents (excluding pedal cyclists), 31,959 (23%) to falls, 6,580 (5%) to suffocation, 3,406 (2.5%) to drowning, 3,314 (2.4%) to non-drug poisoning, 2,701 (1.9%) to fire/flame, 2,156 (1.6%) to medical mistakes, 1,625 (1.2%) to natural/environmental factors, 902 (0.7%) involved pedal cycles, 586 (0.4%) involved guns, and 13,812 (10%) were due to other factors.

[Fatcycledaddy]

Hi Fatcycledaddy,

Re: The thing I don't understand is that when people migrate to this country . . . try to change it once they are here.

I am thinking your ancestors changed this country. Yes/No?

Jerry Baumchen

If they did it was by accepting and respecting the laws that were here and voting in the people they thought best represented them.

[UtahPete]

It always amazes me how many educated folks will take numbers out of content and make up their own "Facts" to prove their side of an argument... Now you educated folks go ahead and pick my argument apart and Ill protect your right to do so. I had read all the post and was not going to say anything until all the "Facts" started flying, they just hit a button.

Truly educated and intelligent people don't make up 'facts'. But many if not most people, educated and otherwise, use facts selectively to support their point of view or belief system. Just look at religious beliefs - unsupported by facts but fanatically defended by believers.

That's what is going on here. We have each formed our belief system about guns, religion, politics based on personal experience and the influence of those who helped form our view of the world, whether that be parents, teachers, talk show hosts or whatever.

There's a term I learned in college years ago; "ethnocentric"; it means the belief that our personal world view is the most common and rational and acceptable one. So, those who believe fervently that the only thing standing between themselves and almost certain death at the hands of ever-present bad guys is the gun they carry, and that the 2nd amendment is all about personal protection (it's not) are going to glom onto 'facts' and other people that support that belief system. It's just human nature; it's not innately a bad thing, but please understand where it comes from - it's not a universal truth but rather a personal belief. Okay?

[UtahPete]

Current data – In 2014, the most recent year of data available, of 138,593 accidental deaths in the U.S., 38,718 (28%) were due to drug poisoning, 32,834 (24%) to motor vehicle traffic accidents (excluding pedal cyclists), 31,959 (23%) to falls, 6,580 (5%) to suffocation, 3,406 (2.5%) to drowning, 3,314 (2.4%) to non-drug poisoning, 2,701 (1.9%) to fire/flame, 2,156 (1.6%) to medical mistakes, 1,625 (1.2%) to natural/environmental factors, 902 (0.7%) involved pedal cycles, 586 (0.4%) involved guns, and 13,812 (10%) were due to other factors.

Exactly. So, why the obsession with carrying a gun to protect against an almost non-existent threat?

[UtahPete]

If they did it was by accepting and respecting the laws that were here and voting in the people they thought best represented them.

I don't think the native americans saw it that way...

[BoilerAnimal]

If they did it was by accepting and respecting the laws that were here and voting in the people they thought best represented them.

Any evidence that Utah Pete is doing anything to the contrary?

[Tombstone Sue]

Just to add to the fire. I can see Mexico from my house. Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws there are. But they only seem to apply to ordinary citizens. The cartel openly display guns and shoots who they please. I will take the 2nd amendment any day over their system.

I won't set foot in Mexico again.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I would also like to say: back in the 90's i had holiday parties, these were a little more then the average, we have strippers, hookers
and private areas in my shop. the strippers were set upon a lift with plywood & carpet. we had beer & liquor. i told everyone who came
no drugs, no guns and if the girls say no they mean NO. Now what i always knew was when you mix guns, naked women & alcohol
you can have problems but no one got upset that i told them absolutely no guns allowed or I will throw them out.
never had any complaints or problems and several of the guests were cops and such.

[UtahPete]

Just to add to the fire. I can see Mexico from my house. Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws there are. But they only seem to apply to ordinary citizens. The cartel openly display guns and shoots who they please. I will take the 2nd amendment any day over their system.

I won't set foot in Mexico again.

Tombstone is an interesting place with a colorful history of frontier justice. I can see why you might feel the way you do.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I have car insurance and hope to never use it, I have homeowners insurance and hope to never use it, I have a spare tire and hope to never use it, I have health insurance and hope to never use it, I carry a gun and hope to never use it.

So why do you have a key for your Spyder and locks on your doors? Because someone might try to steel the Spyder and rob your house, you have them for the possibility that someone might try to take something from you.

Same reason I carry, I value my life and I carry just in case someone tries to take it from me!

So in my opinion, your point is flawed.

the difference in the way i see it is guns would not be part of basic insurance. you get a car, you get insurance, you buy a house, you
get insurance, you move to a crack neighborhood you get a ............. gun.
but why not have bomb shelter, large umbrella policy, no more cheap tires for the spyder too.
Bob can you tell us how many people really have proper insurance for their needs?

[Fatcycledaddy]

Exactly. So, why the obsession with carrying a gun to protect against an almost non-existent threat?

Again, because I have the right and choose to.
Why not rant against drinking, or driving, or any of the other things listed?
I don't get on here and rant when people talk about drinking alcohol, even though I choose not to and never have. Why. because I have the respect for them that they can make that choice for themselves, I choose not to and leave it at that.

As far as your comments about native Americans, my great grand mother on my moms side and great great grandmother on my dads side were full blooded native Americans.
In this countries history there are a lot of things that I personally do not like or wish were done differently. The way the native Americans were treated, the Chinese when they were building the railroads were killed by the thousands, the enslavement of the black man, and may other things.
I was not around when those things happened and had no part in them, I could and can not change that in any way, but that does not change the fact that USA is one of the most giving countries in the world and I am proud to have the right to live here.

The difference between the USA and most other countries is that when the USA defeats a country, we help it get back on it feet, we rebuild it, we do not enslave it as so many other countries have and do.

[Kwalsh]

Exactly. So, why the obsession with carrying a gun to protect against an almost non-existent threat?

then why did you learn to swim???? drowning is very low on the list

[UtahPete]

Again, because I have the right and choose to.

Exactly. It's a choice. It cannot and does not need to be supported by reason.

The basic premise in marketing is that people make choices based on emotion and then use reasoning to support their choice, not the other way around. People choose to carry guns based on irrational emotional impulse, not reason. That is the only point I have been trying to make - your choice is purely irrational and does not need to be justified at all.

So I have been jumping in to dispute nonsensical claims about the rationale behind carrying a weapon 24/7, not questioning your choice or right to carry.

[Fatcycledaddy]

Well guys, it has been fun!!
Now it's time to get back to reality and work so I am done on the subject.

Thanks for all the input and entertainment with all of the opposing views.

[UtahPete]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...626-story.html

The Supreme Court has rejected a major 2nd Amendment challenge to California’s strict limits on carrying concealed guns in public. The justices turned away an appeal from gun rights advocates who contended most law-abiding gun owners in San Diego, Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay area are being wrongly denied permits to carry a weapon when they leave home.

The justices let stand a ruling from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals which held last year that
“2nd Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public.”

[Bob Denman]

Exactly. It's a choice. It cannot and does not need to be supported by reason.
The basic premise in marketing is that people make choices based on emotion and then use reasoning to support their choice, not the other way around. People choose to carry guns based on irrational emotional impulse, not reason.

So based upon your marketing premise: people are just as likely to make a decision to not carry, that is based upon their fears....
...And they will then shop for the statistics that will support their irrational decision.

[UtahPete]

So based upon your marketing premise: people are just as likely to make a decision to not carry, that is based upon their fears....
...And they will then shop for the statistics that will support their irrational decision.

Yes. Very good Bob.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

hey just to set the record straight i am native american, i was born here like my parents and grand parents, i don't know my relatives
beyond that but i do know that 40,000 years ago my relatives came from the continent of africa so perhaps that makes me
african american

[Easy Rider]

The Supreme Court has rejected a major 2nd Amendment challenge to California’s strict limits on carrying concealed guns in public.

This would be MUCH more convincing IF you could provide a link to a reputable source.

[UtahPete]

This would be MUCH more convincing IF you could provide a link to a reputable source.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-n...626-story.html

[UtahPete]

hey just to set the record straight i am native american, i was born here like my parents and grand parents, i don't know my relatives
beyond that but i do know that 40,000 years ago my relatives came from the continent of africa so perhaps that makes me
african american

Actually, native americans came over the Bering Straits from Mongolia.