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  1. #1
    Active Member spydermanstever's Avatar
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    Default Magic Mirrors causing gauges to misread

    I have heard that the magnets on the Magic Mirrors can cause the fuel and temp gauges to mis-read. I recall reading somewhere that there is a solution to this problem. Could someone please post this solution here if they have heard about it. Thanks.
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  2. #2
    Very Active Member Jim&Teresa's Avatar
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    Default Here's what I understand....

    Lamonster mentioned this when we visited him in Springfield. I already had mine mounted with no issues at all.

    He stated if that happens, just take the magnet off and flip it (reverse it - so that the other side points towards the inside of the bike).....That's what I heard and understood - hope it helps. Again, I've had mine on for 2 months now with no issues.
    Last edited by Jim&Teresa; 06-20-2017 at 10:11 PM.
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  3. #3
    Active Member Danz28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spydermanstever View Post
    I have heard that the magnets on the Magic Mirrors can cause the fuel and temp gauges to mis-read. I recall reading somewhere that there is a solution to this problem. Could someone please post this solution here if they have heard about it. Thanks.
    Thank . I could not figure out why temp was reading low.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danz28 View Post
    Thank . I could not figure out why temp was reading low.
    Danz, I doubt very much that a temp gauge reading LOW should be attributed to the Magnets!! The reason being that, while a few temp gauges might read HIGH because there may be loose or close wires in the loom inside the dash cavity, AFAIK they MUST satisfy the following conditions for this to occur:

    1). the wires need to be closer to the inside of the mirror mounts than they should be;
    2). there needs to be a compromised solder joint or weak insulation on those wires close to the mirror mounts; &
    3). MOST IMPORTANTLY, those wires MUST have enough slack in the loom/their fastening to allow them to move, which might create a micro current which can only ADD to the gauge reading!

    This won't make the gauge reading LESS because AFAIK you can't induce a 'subtractive current' or take electricity from a circuit thru passing a moving wire thru a magnetic field unless it's shorting or being used somewhere else!

    Sooo, even if flipping one or more of the magnets works for you in getting your gauge reading correctly again, then it'll be because you've stopped the creation of or minimised the strength of the magnetic field that allowed the wires moving in it to create the micro current which ADDS to the temp reading; but you still haven't necessarily removed the loose or close & moving wiring that allowed it to be created in the first place and if your gauge is reading LOW, then I believe that there's likely to be something else in there shorting or using current - AND THAT NEEDS RECTIFYING!

  5. #5
    Very Active Member Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    That might be the case for some PMK, but I took my RT with magnets & gauges down to the specialist instrument fitters & Smiths Gauge repairers well before any were sold, & they went over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb before assuring me that when they are installed as directed, the magnet mounts WILL NOT directly effect those gauges unless they are actually touching the casing or the wiring is compromised/moving as outlined in the (very small) magnetic field that might end up behind the dash! And every effected gauge that we have been able to physically inspect so far has had those features mentioned above. So you can discuss it or argue about it all you like, but I'm just passing on what the experts told me was the case for the gauges & the magnets as used on the RT's.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-21-2017 at 06:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Very Active Member Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Like I said: "So you can discuss it or argue about it all you like, but I'm just passing on what the experts told me was the case for the gauges & the magnets as used on the RT's. "


  7. #7
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    We've had good luck with flipping the magnets. I've also removed the top magnets and just used the stock clips and that works great too.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default UPPER MAGNET REMOVAL

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    We've had good luck with flipping the magnets. I've also removed the top magnets and just used the stock clips and that works great too.
    , I recently removed my upper magnet ( for not the same reason ) and tried the OEM Post and Plastic Clip ..... I think it actually works much better than the THREE Magnet system........ On the BRP - OEM system it was the lower post & wire spring clips that were the issue ...... the upper post didn't cause any problems ( if you managed to get the lowers on ) ...... TRY IT ..... Mike

  9. #9
    Very Active Member rcturner's Avatar
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    On 5/13 I asked a question concerning the possible effects of these powerful magnets.

    My question was:
    "I think these mirror mounts look like a nice solution to the problem of mirror removal. I was wondering however, does anyone have any hard data that shows that these really strong magnets will not cause any issues with the gauges, displays, computers, etc ? Fairly mild magnets can cause some serious issues with instruments. To show this, just put a magnetic compass any place around the dashboard. The speaker magnets will not allow the compass to work properly. Has anyone had any problems related to the strong magnets?"

    The consistent answer was that there were no problems associated with the magnets. Now, there seems to have been several issues and numerous work arounds to solve the problems. Amazing. It seems as though we are dealing with some selective internet wisdom again. Be careful when using magnets of any kind around your computers, displays, gauges, etc. You may not be able to see the effect but, the magnetic field is there.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member Highwayman2013's Avatar
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    You could just disconnect the analog gauges. I remember rtotten having the same problem with the gauges after getting the magic mirrors.
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  11. #11
    Active Member Danz28's Avatar
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    Default It worked

    Got home from work took magnet off. The very top one
    And the gauge instantly read normal just like it was before
    . I even went to dealer and they said these machines are finicky and has long has the fan kicks on font worry. Pput magnets back on the other way and it still is working good. I will drive around today and let you know if it stays. FYI when it was acting up the highest. It would read would barely touch the bottom of the marker.

  12. #12
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    Default "Magic Mirrors" use powerful magnets for attachment

    I would think they have to affect the performance of anything containing a coil, such as analog gauges, solenoids, relays, etc.

    To me, they are a solution in search of a problem. Once you learn how to remove the side mirrors it isn't that difficult to do.

    2014 RTL Magnesium & 2014 RTL Cognac
    Northern Utah in summer; Southern Utah in winter

  13. #13
    Still a SpyderLover Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danz28 View Post
    Got home from work took magnet off. The very top one
    And the gauge instantly read normal just like it was before
    . I even went to dealer and they said these machines are finicky and has long has the fan kicks on font worry. Pput magnets back on the other way and it still is working good. I will drive around today and let you know if it stays. FYI when it was acting up the highest. It would read would barely touch the bottom of the marker.
    on fixing this issue!
    I must have just put mine in the "correct" way; the very first time! Faint.gif
    And I'm NEVER that lucky!
    Help is on the way. Until then...

  14. #14
    Active Member mcalva's Avatar
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    Hi!

    I had a problem cause when I installed the magic mirrors the temperature needle went up
    and stayed there. So I believed the Spyder had some issue with cooling system.

    Once I turned the upper magnet over, the needle went down but I discovered that the magnet
    effects are still there cause the needle, now don't goes up. ??!!

    I've dissasembled all magnets an the needle reaches the medium level temperature. When I approach
    one magnet to any of the three positions the needle goes down again.

    Maybe should I add some kind of magnetic shielding material to protect the gauge or insulate the
    magnets?

  15. #15
    Active Member mcalva's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Very few materials are easily formed to block a magnets field. What did you have in mind to prevent the passing of the magnets field towards the instruments?

    MU Metal is the one thing that may work. Either plate a large area under each or all magnets or wrap the indicators and secure the wrap.

    Last time I used MU Metal, it was pretty expensive.
    Yes. I shaw MU Metal but I'm not sure about it goes with magnets. Despite that if I test it, ill use both options.

    The other option is install a voltimeter and a clock on the desk gauges and use the central panel indicators but that doesn't solve
    the problem.

  16. #16
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default MAGNETIC INTERFERENCE

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Very few materials are easily formed to block a magnets field. What did you have in mind to prevent the passing of the magnets field towards the instruments?

    MU Metal is the one thing that may work. Either plate a large area under each or all magnets or wrap the indicators and secure the wrap.

    Last time I used MU Metal, it was pretty expensive.
    Question: Is the so called magnetic " field " around the magnet ...... the same as what causes the magnet to be attracted to some metal ???? .............. Mike

  17. #17
    Very Active Member rcturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Question: Is the so called magnetic " field " around the magnet ...... the same as what causes the magnet to be attracted to some metal ???? .............. Mike
    The "so called magnetic field" is part of every magnet. Your speakers have it as do several other items you come in contact with everyday. They can raise havoc with many things electrical. If you want to see a more common way that magnets effect things you may use everyday, try mounting a magnetic compass on the dashboard of your car, truck or bike.(if they have speakers)

  18. #18
    Active Member Danz28's Avatar
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    Still no issues. Even spliced a dual dash USB wire from that temp gauge working fine.

  19. #19
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    Default I installed magic mirrors

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim&Teresa View Post
    Lamonster mentioned this when we visited him in Springfield. I already had mine mounted with no issues at all.

    He stated if that happens, just take the magnet off and flip it (reverse it - so that the other side points towards the inside of the bike).....That's what I heard and understood - hope it helps. Again, I've had mine on for 2 months now with no issues.
    Well this explains why BOTH the gauges malfunctioned at the same time. Fuel gauge pinned counter clockwise when low, pins clockwise when over half full. Temp gauge reads hot real fast. Rests at 120 degrees.

  20. #20
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Default FLUX FIELD

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Yes, kind of, almost.

    The field has an orientation and lines of flux. The lines of flux emanate from the magnetic poles. The intensity of flux or magnetic strength is greater near the poles, less at the magnets midspan, and the lines of flux diminish as distance increases.

    In the case of the mirror mounts, two phenomena are occurring.

    First, like all magnets they are surround by a field of magnetism and defined by the lines of flux.

    Second, the magnets have the ability to attract to ferro magnetic materials. In this case, the new mounts for the mirrors. Steel being able to be magnetized is therfore an acceptable mount. Materials such as lead, aluminum, plastic or glass are not ferro magnetic, and will not retain any magnetic properties.

    The way an analog indicator operates, in simple terms, the meter movement is based on a variable voltage / current. As these are changed, the electromagnet in the meters movement will vary the meters magnetic strength and reposition the needle.

    With strong permanent magnets, or strong electro magnets, they always display a field radiating from the poles. This field, or more correctly, the lines of flux can be bent or have thier shape altered by proximity to other items, or shapes.

    Regarding the magnets shape, this can also effect stregth of the field and shape of the flux lines.

    I do not run Magic Mirrors. From photos I have seen the mount is fastened to the mirror, and the magnet fastens to the chassis.

    If the magnet itself utilizes a steel screw passing through the magnets center of the disc, the added length of the screw can very easily alter the magnets true shape of the field and flux intensity.

    For an idea, a round magnet with a length equal to the diameter is often less powerful than a magnet of similar weight, but having a diameter noticably smaller than the length.

    So, cutting to the chase and waking you all up. Hopefully the magnets did not appreciably cause errors in the gauges. Enjoy vibration free mirrors with easy removal and reinstall. If you do have gauge issues, consider finding digital gauges with a different function and then display fuel level and coolant temp on the main display.
    Welllllll , a thick enough piece of anything non-metallic placed on a magnet will prevent it from attracting metal ..... I'm pretty sure the " ferrules " that hold the bolts are brass ...... I think if you put something larger in size than the magnet and 1/8 or so thick it might prevent the field from effecting the gauges ....... Mike

  21. #21
    Very Active Member Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Before these Magic Mirrors & their magnets ever hit the streets, they were very carefully checked over by instrument experts, who suggested the use of Stainless Steel screws to hold the magnets to the chassis insted of ferric screws - so the screws used are stainless, austenitic stainless, so that it's largely non magnetic & will transfer at best a TINY portion of the magnetic field that exists around the magnets. On top of that, they highlighted that the magnets would be held onto the chassis, which was thick enough to severly limit any significant magnetic field issues re the gauges; besides which, since they already had to contend with the closer & stronger(?) magnets in the speakers, the gauges themselves were constructed & mounted in such a way that their working bits are largely protected from any external magnetic fields, especially when they are: small, like those the mounts might create; more than an inch or so away, which they are; & particularly if the mounts are installed correctly! They convinced us that the gauges themselves would not be effected by putting the magnetic mirror mounts where they needed to go.

    When we discovered that a few installations (very few actually, less than a couple of percent) DID have gauges acting up after the magnets were installed, we went back to the experts, didn't take it upon ourselves, but actually took this to some of the premier instrument makers in the world, & they kindly looked at the problem & told us that the only way the gauges would be effected like that was if the wiring leading to the gauges was being effected enough by the micro field to allow some additional current to be produced in the wiring - however, any such current would be a tiny amount of 'extra current' & if it made a difference to a gauge then it would mean that the wiring insulation or a joint was very likely compromised somehow, & that the wires MUST ALSO be moving in the magnetic field, as small as that was likely to be!! So it could easily be remedied, either by fixing the wires (ie, repairing/replacing any compromised insulation/joins etc AND by stopping them from moving); by moving the wires further away (ie, putting them back where the OE Loom had them sited); or by further reducing the magnetic field... they allowed that IF ALL the magnets had their polarity aligned identically, the range of the magnetic field might just be enough for a very weak field to extend close enough to effect compromised wiring enough to create a micro current if the wires in the OE position moved, but if that was the case then flipping the closest magnet should reduce the weak magnetic field even further, & so remedy the problem!!

    Now this wasn't (& isn't) me being some keyboard warrior & spouting off about what I think about all this, it's simply me passing on what the EXPERTS have told us about these magnets & these gauges & their potential interactions... you can take it or leave it or do with it as you will - I've passed on what I KNOW about the subject, not what I suspect or suppose, but (in some cases almost word for word) what I have learnt from the people who really do KNOW EVERYTHING about this sort of stuff. And I'm pretty sure that if you are seriously concerned about your analogue gauges not working properly due to the Magics, & you REALLY don't want to revert to using the significantly more accurate digital gauges & toss the analogues in the bin like most others, replacing them with something worthwhile, then you could contact Russ & negotiate with him re a refund - he's not trying to force you to use them, & I'm not trying to force you to understand this or even believe it - but between us we've done what we can to remedy something that many Spyder RT owners had issues with. We are very sorry if these Mirror Magics haven't worked for you personally & are happy to work with you to try & remedy your issue, just send us an email or PM explaining your problem. However, if us producing these mounts & doing this sort of thing plus our efforts to help others is something that sticks in your craw so much that you need to continually post up to denigrate it & pick at it at every opportunity like some here seem to do, then I truly am sorry for you!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 07-02-2017 at 08:33 PM.

  22. #22
    Very Active Member rcturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    Before these Magic Mirrors & their magnets ever hit the streets, they were very carefully checked over by instrument experts, who suggested the use of Stainless Steel screws to hold the magnets to the chassis insted of ferric screws - so the screws used are stainless, austenitic stainless, so that it's largely non magnetic & will transfer at best a TINY portion of the magnetic field that exists around the magnets. On top of that, they highlighted that the magnets would be held onto the chassis, which was thick enough to severly limit any significant magnetic field issues re the gauges; besides which, since they already had to contend with the closer & stronger(?) magnets in the speakers, the gauges themselves were constructed & mounted in such a way that their working bits are largely protected from any external magnetic fields, especially when they are: small, like those the mounts might create; more than an inch or so away, which they are; & particularly if the mounts are installed correctly! They convinced us that the gauges themselves would not be effected by putting the magnetic mirror mounts where they needed to go.

    When we discovered that a few installations (very few actually, less than a couple of percent) DID have gauges acting up after the magnets were installed, we went back to the experts, didn't take it upon ourselves, but actually took this to some of the premier instrument makers in the world, & they kindly looked at the problem & told us that the only way the gauges would be effected like that was if the wiring leading to the gauges was being effected enough by the micro field to allow some additional current to be produced in the wiring - however, any such current would be a tiny amount of 'extra current' & if it made a difference to a gauge then it would mean that the wiring insulation or a joint was very likely compromised somehow, & that the wires MUST ALSO be moving in the magnetic field, as small as that was likely to be!! So it could easily be remedied, either by fixing the wires (ie, repairing/replacing any compromised insulation/joins etc AND by stopping them from moving); by moving the wires further away (ie, putting them back where the OE Loom had them sited); or by further reducing the magnetic field... they allowed that IF ALL the magnets had their polarity aligned identically, the range of the magnetic field might just be enough for a very weak field to extend close enough to effect compromised wiring enough to create a micro current if the wires in the OE position moved, but if that was the case then flipping the closest magnet should reduce the weak magnetic field even further, & so remedy the problem!!

    Now this wasn't (& isn't) me being some keyboard warrior & spouting off about what I think about all this, it's simply me passing on what the EXPERTS have told us about these magnets & these gauges & their potential interactions... you can take it or leave it or do with it as you will - I've passed on what I KNOW about the subject, not what I suspect or suppose, but (in some cases almost word for word) what I have learnt from the people who really do KNOW EVERYTHING about this sort of stuff. And I'm pretty sure that if you are seriously concerned about your analogue gauges not working properly due to the Magics, & you REALLY don't want to revert to using the significantly more accurate digital gauges & toss the analogues in the bin like most others, replacing them with something worthwhile, then you could contact Russ & negotiate with him re a refund - he's not trying to force you to use them, & I'm not trying to force you to understand this or even believe it - but between us we've done what we can to remedy something that many Spyder RT owners had issues with. We are very sorry if these Mirror Magics haven't worked for you personally & are happy to work with you to try & remedy your issue, just send us an email or PM explaining your problem. However, if us producing these mounts & doing this sort of thing plus our efforts to help others is something that sticks in your craw so much that you need to continually post up to denigrate it & pick at it at every opportunity like some here seem to do, then I truly am sorry for you!
    Finally, a real answer that explains the issues reported as well as some of the fixes and why they appeared to work. Thank you for the effort and information.
    Last edited by rcturner; 07-03-2017 at 08:57 AM.

  23. #23
    Still a SpyderLover Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Help is on the way. Until then...

  24. #24
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    Default NO, No, No

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    If you do decide to run two magnets and the "C" retainer on each mirror, take the two leftover magnets and secure them to the outside of the oil filter housing to trap micro ferrous particles and lessen engine wear.
    You do NOT want to put the unused magnets on the oil filter. It screws up the shift sensor (tells what gear you are in on your display). I know, I did it. Said I was in 4th gear, was only in 2nd. Gave me the appropriate error code.

    As far as the magnetic fields messing with the gauges? I removed the gauges and played with them and a magnet. You have to be at least 8 inches to keep from messing with the gauges. I did the reverse, on the top magnet. Still messed with the gauges as I lowered them into place. Took them out completely, installed a nice voltage gauge in the temp hole, and dual USB ports on the fuel side.

  25. #25
    Member crafty's Avatar
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    Default No problems with my magic mirrors

    I have had the magic mirrors on my bike for about 2 months and many miles without any problems. Just my experience so far.

    2015 RT-S Special Series
    Ultimate Seats-Tall boy with backrest and chrome gas door, Extended brake pedal, Tall Windshield, brushed chrome replaced with shiny chrome, Baja Ron anti-sway bar, Tri Axis handlebar, Rivco highway pegs, Two Brothers exhaust, ISCI hand brake, Spyderpops Bumpskid, Rivco Trunk mounted double flag holder for American Flag and PA State Flag, Magic Mirrors, Can Am Accessories hitch

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