Cupping front tires

[dbaucum]

2014 RTL with 25k miles
replaced the OEM fronts with Federals at 16k miles. Laser alignment done at 12k miles. On a 3k trip and just noticed both fronts are cupping badly on the inside. We have done a lot of aggressive riding with two up and fully loaded on curvy roads. Still lots of tread left but vibration is getting worse. I was hoping the car tires would not cup. Any suggestions? Always run fronts at 20#.

[4 MARIE]

with 2 up aggressive style ryding, my guess is it's the accompanying aggressive braking that's the culprit.
Don't know if there is ANY tire that will take a steady diet of that without cupping.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Lazer alignment ???? .... Whose Lazer alignment did you get ...... they are not All created equal !!! ..... Mike

[dbaucum]

Laser alignment done at Louis Powersports in Greenville Texas.

[trikerbiker645]

An update on my buddy's and my 2015's RTS SPYDER.....quick background....both got about same week, both ride together a alot,ride about the same style. Have about same mileage since spring [aprox. 6, 7 thousand] . He had his laser aligned , I didn't because we are testing/ checking each others bikes as far as issues etc. ANYWAY....his tires are cupped the same as mine but he"s out the price of the laser alignment.....? We will keep checking each others bikes! safe riding.

[Gray Ghost]

Lazer alignment ???? .... Whose Lazer alignment did you get ...... they are not All created equal !!! ..... Mike

Laser alignment done at Louis Powersports in Greenville Texas.

They use the ROLO system.

[Bfromla]

They use the ROLO system.

Sure sounds like it & they must not even be doing that right the cupping indicates you are towed in fyi i had same issue till i was SQUARED AWAY at spyderfest. Help yourself & find a proper laser aglingment place before you damage tires too much

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The ROLO / Tru Trac system is the best and most accurate ..... that being said, the equipment used is set up by a human. If the person doing the alignment is not doing it correctly ....... well I think you know what this means ....... Federal tires are a quality product that don't often have manufacturing issues unlike KENDA's. The reason I started with the Alignment was because BOTH tires were effected........ I still lean that that way...............jmho...... Mike

[retired1]

Once the front tires start cupping, quite often, even after it has been aligned the tires will keep wearing in the same pattern,

[youngers]

could be that hard ride from cedar hill too venus , on 67 ? or the real hard ride through joe pool lake area ! man been like 15 years since I went through joe pool area , remember when it was not even open yet , one could ride 360 on the back side over the lake it was soo nice too look at , then people came hahahahah { p.m. if you wish

[youngers]

Once the front tires start cupping, quite often, even after it has been aligned the tires will keep wearing in the same pattern,

new tire purchase < with another aliment you think ? ... could the wheel weights be off ?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

With the miles you have on your spyder, I would also check the upper and lower ball-joints.

Good info. Any chance you can post a higher resolution copy? This one is kind of hard to read.

[Bob Denman]

The alignment was done at 12,000 miles, and there's 25,000 on the bike now...

That 's a lot of miles, and lots of time to hit something; buggering-up what could have been a perfect alignment...

Tell us more...

[KX5062]

Once the front tires start cupping, quite often, even after it has been aligned the tires will keep wearing in the same pattern,

Agreed. I too would suggest a careful inspection of all your suspension components. I found a bad ball joint on my 08 when I went to have it Squared Away. Repairs were necessary before a proper alignment could be performed.

[merlot]

could be excessive +ve camber....eg tops of wheels laying in (check when fully loaded)...
for that degree of wear you should be able to see it easy without using a square off the ground
i had cupping on the outside after 22k and it was the wheels laying out...caused by too much preload on the elkas lifting the bike too high

if your springs are weak or youre a big couple then could be time for spring adjusters or heavier springs to give correct ride height...or shocks you can preload

dosent sound like toe in/out (wheel alignment)

sounds like a wheel balance may be on the cards too

[KX5062]

Blown front shocks will cause odd tire wear too.

[larryd]

My 14 RTs also has front tires cupping but on both inside and outside of both...Replaced OE tires with Federals at 3 K miles, now has 15 K...Tires are properly balanced and had alignment done...

Any real fix ideas???

larryd

[retired1]

[QUOTE=larryd;1194989]My 14 RTs also has front tires cupping but on both inside and outside of both...Replaced OE tires with Federals at 3 K miles, now has 15 K...Tires are properly balanced and had alignment done...

Any real fix idea

Back in the day, tire wear like that, would have been caused by running the tires underinflated. How many pounds were you running in the front tires?

[larryd]

[QUOTE=retired1;1195164]

My 14 RTs also has front tires cupping but on both inside and outside of both...Replaced OE tires with Federals at 3 K miles, now has 15 K...Tires are properly balanced and had alignment done...

Any real fix idea

Back in the day, tire wear like that, would have been caused by running the tires underinflated. How many pounds were you running in the front tires?

I keep them around 20 to 22 lbs..

[Peter Aawen]

I'll join those suggesting that this is probably due to a worn component/components somewhere rather than just a wheel alignment or tire pressures, altho it is possible that checking tread temps &/or pressures could help in the diagnosis. Have you tried to get a tread temperature reading after ryding for an hour or so?? One of those infra-red 'no-touch' thermometers should be up to the task, just so long as you do it as soon as you stop. Or you could look for a 4psi increase from your cold start tire pressures after an hour or so's ryding - more than 4psi suggests low cold staring pressures, less than 4psi suggests high cold starting pressures. If you only ever ryde for 30 mins or so, that'll do for either method, but doing either/both should help identify fairly quickly if 'low' tire pressures might be the culprit or contributing.

There again, I know your location says PA, but if you regularly ryde in 'hot' ambient temp conditions, on 'hot' surfaces, or load the front tires up a fair bit thru working the twisties hard or caning the brakes, that could also be part of if not all of your problem.... Or, it could be that at some stage in the life of those tires you (or a previous owner possibly?) did something for saaay at least 1000 miles or so that started that wear pattern - often, once a wear pattern is set into the tread, you can be unable to align it out or adjust pressures sufficiently to fix it!!

But I'd still guess there's gotta be a couple of worn ball joints, dud shocks, over-loaded springs, or loose wheel bearings in the mix somewhere.... Or maybe possibly there's an incorrect 'static ride height' setting or too little/much spring pre-loading that is throwing the camber setting out of whack as Merlot suggested earlier?? Do you have pre-load adjustable springs/shocks on your Spyder?? If so, check the loaded ride height & camber against BRP Specs for your model Spyder - IF you can get them; otherwise aim for zero camber with your Spyder loaded & you/your normal pillion passenger aboard.

Good Luck!

[larryd]

I'll join those suggesting that this is probably due to a worn component/components somewhere rather than just a wheel alignment or tire pressures, altho it is possible that checking tread temps &/or pressures could help in the diagnosis. Have you tried to get a tread temperature reading after ryding for an hour or so?? One of those infra-red 'no-touch' thermometers should be up to the task, just so long as you do it as soon as you stop. Or you could look for a 4psi increase from your cold start tire pressures after an hour or so's ryding - more than 4psi suggests low cold staring pressures, less than 4psi suggests high cold starting pressures. If you only ever ryde for 30 mins or so, that'll do for either method, but doing either/both should help identify fairly quickly if 'low' tire pressures might be the culprit or contributing.

There again, I know your location says PA, but if you regularly ryde in 'hot' ambient temp conditions, on 'hot' surfaces, or load the front tires up a fair bit thru working the twisties hard or caning the brakes, that could also be part of if not all of your problem.... Or, it could be that at some stage in the life of those tires you (or a previous owner possibly?) did something for saaay at least 1000 miles or so that started that wear pattern - often, once a wear pattern is set into the tread, you can be unable to align it out or adjust pressures sufficiently to fix it!!

But I'd still guess there's gotta be a couple of worn ball joints, dud shocks, over-loaded springs, or loose wheel bearings in the mix somewhere.... Or maybe possibly there's an incorrect 'static ride height' setting or too little/much spring pre-loading that is throwing the camber setting out of whack as Merlot suggested earlier?? Do you have pre-load adjustable springs/shocks on your Spyder?? If so, check the loaded ride height & camber against BRP Specs for your model Spyder - IF you can get them; otherwise aim for zero camber with your Spyder loaded & you/your normal pillion passenger aboard.

Good Luck!

I've checked the front end by jacking the machine up under both front lower control arms and nothing is loose...

I have Elka front shocks and my ride height was very low...I just adjusted my ride height up about 2" before my return trip from GA last week...The machine handled very well coming back from GA with a passenger and pulling a trailer with lots of wind and many twisties...

When my ride height was low, and you would hit sudden dips, the machine would dart around, but now that I have raised the ride height it no longer darts around when hitting sudden dips...

Yes, it was a very hot summer here and I did lots of riding on black top roads with high temps... And I ride almost all mountain and twisty roads...

THANK YOU for your input...larryd

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I've checked the front end by jacking the machine up under both front lower control arms and nothing is loose...

I have Elka front shocks and my ride height was very low...I just adjusted my ride height up about 2" before my return trip from GA last week...The machine handled very well coming back from GA with a passenger and pulling a trailer with lots of wind and many twisties...

When my ride height was low, and you would hit sudden dips, the machine would dart around, but now that I have raised the ride height it no longer darts around when hitting sudden dips...

Yes, it was a very hot summer here and I did lots of riding on black top roads with high temps... And I ride almost all mountain and twisty roads...

THANK YOU for your input...larryd

Larry, 2 inches is ....HUGH .... is this just the front or both ends ........ either way this is going to effect your alignment ..... A LOT ....... I would send " SpyderAnn01 " a PM and ask Her about this ....ASAP .....Mike

[wolffspyder]

My original tires cupped badly. I had a terrible shudder at 40mph, especially when slowing down through that range. It was time for all 3 to change anyway. I had all three replaced and had a laser alignment done at that time. not long after that, the shudder at 40 came back. I had the dealer look at it and they said the tires were cupping again. I had them keep it for a while to check out components and the alignment. they could not find anything out of spec. BRP gave me a new set of front tires. eventually the shudder came back in about 1000 miles. never have figured it out. Maybe its because i ride double a lot and our combined wieght is about 380?