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Very Active Member
 OIL
 Originally Posted by Firefly
My understanding of the 5W vs. 10W is that 5W has more ability to 'stick' to the engine parts - so that when you first start up there is more oil left on the engine parts.
Guess I'll have to do some research, but I'm really thinking of switching to the RP - even before hitting my next oil change!
Firefly-With all due respect you were misinformed. The "W" in 5W40, 10W40, ect. stands for "WINTER" and only pertains to the temperatures that you ride in (5W- EXTERMELY cold weather). I use a 10W40 full synthetic (Mobil 1) JASO-MA rated.
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Very Active Member
Oil
Originally Posted by Lamonster
I agree, API is the standard for rating motor oils.
That is true Except for Motorcycle Oil and that standard is JASO-MA.
All true Motorcycle oil will have the JASO rating along with the Maximum API rating allowed usually no higher than SJ/SL and never SM.
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Very Active Member
OIL
http://www.bikenomads.com/wiki/index...r_oil_in_bikes
Some good reading for those who want to know about oil.
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New BRP oil line up
I was in the dealer a month ago to pick up some o rings and washers and they gave me a copy of correspondence from BRP regarding the new oil. It's 4 pages long and pertains to the skidoos, seadoos and atvs as well so I will just high light the spyder info.
First they are(have) launching a new line of XPS oils. Previously they they offered 4 different grades of oil for the watercraft, atv and roadster engines.
That is now 2. The black bottle is semi-synthetic and is 5w40 and is intended to be used 3 seasons(spring, summer and fall. The yellow bottle is fully synthetic and is a 0w40 grade and is for use in winter or year round.
It goes on to say they will be called summer grade and winter grade/all-climate grade and most of it deals with the reasons why they did this. (marketing) and to"make it easier for customers to select the correct BRP oil and keep your customers looking for specific viscosity grade from shopping at competitors like Wal-mart."
They are renumbering their products and provided a cross reference chart. ie 293600039 5w40 quart is now 293600121 quart/946ml.
It also indicates they will be releaseing new Kits for the spyder and their other products to include the oil as well as the o rings and washers.
I hope this clears up some of the confusion as to what is going on with our dealers regarding the oil.
Dick
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The W in the middle stands for weight, Before variable weight oil you bought 10W,20W,30W or 40W, etc. When Variable Weight oil came out they put the second weight on behind the W. What it means is cold viscosity and hot viscosity. 5W40 means when the oil is cold it has the vecosity of 5W as it heats up it has the vecosity of 40W. All weights before were cold vecosity. When you heat up any oil it gets thinner. The 5W40 only gets as thin as a straight 40W would. This allows thinner oil to get to engine parts sooner to lube them at start up but still retain the lube protection of the heavier oil. In the summer when its hot you run a heaver oil cold because the ambient temp is warmer and and the oil will not take as long to heat up. In the winter when its cold the oil will take longer to heat up so some people run a lighter oil on the bottom so the engine will get proper lube earlier.
Danny
Last edited by DannyS; 08-09-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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Very Active Member
oil
Originally Posted by DannyS
The W in the middle stands for weight, Before variable weight oil you bought 10W,20W,30W or 40W, etc. When Variable Weight oil came out they put the second weight on behind the W. What it means is cold viscosity and hot viscosity. 5W40 means when the oil is cold it has the vecosity of 5W as it heats up it has the vecosity of 40W. All weights before were cold vecosity. When you heat up any oil it gets thinner. The 5W40 only gets as thin as a straight 40W would. This allows thinner oil to get to engine parts sooner to lube them at start up but still retain the lube protection of the heavier oil. In the summer when its hot you run a heaver oil cold because the ambient temp is warmer and and the oil will not take as long to heat up. In the winter when its cold the oil will take longer to heat up so some people run a lighter oil on the bottom so the engine will get proper lube earlier.
Danny
Yes- originally the "W" stood for WINTER and some publications still list it as such; However the common thought is that it means WEIGHT and other publications list it as that but that really is beside the piont since it pertains to the temperature that it is used in.
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Very Active Member
OIL
Originally Posted by NancysToy
Advance Auto carries the Mobil1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil (actually not a racing oil but made for water-cooled sport bikes). I didn't like the spec on it, however, and will be trying the Castrol Syntec 5W-40, which is readily available at Advance Auto and AutoZone, among other places. Castrol makes a 5W-40 PowerRS R4 RT motorcycle oil, but it doesn't seem to be available locally, and the local stores couldn't order it. Amsoil makes a 10W-40 that is available locally, and is a top notch oil.
-Scotty 
Scotty-- I am just curious to know what spec in the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil didn't you like? It is JASO_MA rated which is the highest rating for any motorcycle oil. I do respect your opinion so I would like to know what you were looking at. I have always pretty much used Mobil 1 synthetic since they started rating their oil to the Motorcycle standards.
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Very Active Member
OIL
Originally Posted by Firefly
While I am running the Max-Cycle, Tech support at RP told me that the 'Auto' version of the oils is also fine and won't cause clutch slippage.
Considering I never had oil leaks and funky smells prior to using RP---- I'm switching to something else to see if the RP was the problem. I'm 100% sure the smell is from the RP - but kind of doubt the leak is - but you never know.
Firefly--A good rule of thumb, "If it isn't Motorcycle oil don't put it in a motorcycle." And the only way one would know is to look for the proper rating.
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Active Member
Here is what I just put in mine, I bought Motul 7100 ester base 100% synthetic [api sg/sh/sj/sl wet clutch anti slipping technology,suitable for catalytic converters] at Royal Distributing $53.95Can. 4L plus tx 10w40 also has Jaso ma rating.It meets all the requirements BRP lists.
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Motorbike Professor
Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW
Scotty-- I am just curious to know what spec in the Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil didn't you like? It is JASO_MA rated which is the highest rating for any motorcycle oil. I do respect your opinion so I would like to know what you were looking at. I have always pretty much used Mobil 1 synthetic since they started rating their oil to the Motorcycle standards.
Oh boy, can of worms time! First, let me say that comparing oils is not science. None of the manufacturer's spec sheets have the same information, outside a few commonly accepted parameters, like viscosity measurements. At that point, it becomes a matter of personal likes and dislikes, and that is my reasoning on the Mobil-1 Motorcycle oil. It is strictly personal preference, and I do not mean to imply the Mobil-1 isn't a top grade oil, or is less suitable in any way. My biggest concern with the Mobil-1 MC, other than the viscosity rating itself, was low temp and pumping viscosity figures that seemed to vary more widely between viscosity grades than other brands, and were significantly lower than other brands I researched. I don't know if that is good or bad, but it worried me that it was different.
As to JASO ratings versus API, I don't think it really matters as much with a liquid-cooled engine, although we all know Spyders get plenty hot. Nothing like temps in an air-cooled V-twin. Frequent oil changes to avoid thermal breakdown can compensate a lot for oils that deteriorate under high heat conditions, so I think you could satisfactorily use an oil designed for less strenuous service. As to the presence of phosphorus and zinc additives...the jury is still out. I find no solid information, even from JASO, indicating their clear superiority. JASO specs were put together expressly for motorcycles, so that is in their favor, but that doesn't mean API standards are inadequate, just not designed around bikes in the first place. BTW, the JASO-MA merely means it meets the standard and has no friction modifiers. There are no different rating levels.
In the end, for me and me alone, it comes down to two things. First, does the oil meet the manufacturer's stated spec? BRP specifes full-synthetic oil which meets API standard SL (and some previous standards), but not SM. They also specify the 5W-40 SAE grade. Of course their new oil does not meet their own specification! Heck, it isn't even labeled as to SAE grade. Of the JASO-MA oils on the market, only Castrol RS R4 is available in 5W-40, and it is not available around here. I can't even order it through local suppliers of Castrol. The lack of a 5W-40 is my biggest problem with the Mobil-1. Not being able to find an oil which meets the BRP spec creates a problem for me, and not one that I have a comfortable solution for as yet.
-Scotty
2011 Spyder RTS-SM5 (mine)
2000 BMW R1100RTP, motorized tricycle & 23 vintage bikes
2011 RT-622 trailer, Aspen Sentry popup camper, custom motorcycle trailer to pull behind the Spyder
Mutant Trikes Forever!
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Very Active Member
OIL
Originally Posted by NancysToy
Oh boy, can of worms time! First, let me say that comparing oils is not science. None of the manufacturer's spec sheets have the same information, outside a few commonly accepted parameters, like viscosity measurements. At that point, it becomes a matter of personal likes and dislikes, and that is my reasoning on the Mobil-1 Motorcycle oil. It is strictly personal preference, and I do not mean to imply the Mobil-1 isn't a top grade oil, or is less suitable in any way. My biggest concern with the Mobil-1 MC, other than the viscosity rating itself, was low temp and pumping viscosity figures that seemed to vary more widely between viscosity grades than other brands, and were significantly lower than other brands I researched. I don't know if that is good or bad, but it worried me that it was different.
As to JASO ratings versus API, I don't think it really matters as much with a liquid-cooled engine, although we all know Spyders get plenty hot. Nothing like temps in an air-cooled V-twin. Frequent oil changes to avoid thermal breakdown can compensate a lot for oils that deteriorate under high heat conditions, so I think you could satisfactorily use an oil designed for less strenuous service. As to the presence of phosphorus and zinc additives...the jury is still out. I find no solid information, even from JASO, indicating their clear superiority. JASO specs were put together expressly for motorcycles, so that is in their favor, but that doesn't mean API standards are inadequate, just not designed around bikes in the first place. BTW, the JASO-MA merely means it meets the standard and has no friction modifiers. There are no different rating levels.
In the end, for me and me alone, it comes down to two things. First, does the oil meet the manufacturer's stated spec? BRP specifes full-synthetic oil which meets API standard SL (and some previous standards), but not SM. They also specify the 5W-40 SAE grade. Of course their new oil does not meet their own specification! Heck, it isn't even labeled as to SAE grade. Of the JASO-MA oils on the market, only Castrol RS R4 is available in 5W-40, and it is not available around here. I can't even order it through local suppliers of Castrol. The lack of a 5W-40 is my biggest problem with the Mobil-1. Not being able to find an oil which meets the BRP spec creates a problem for me, and not one that I have a comfortable solution for as yet.
Fair enough Scotty. I have spent a lot of time and effort in researching oils for different applications (When I actually got paid for it) and because the ratings and grades are complicated the average consumer doesn't really know what to use; especially for Motorcycles. The standards for autos (oil) has dramatically changed over the last few years and most, if not all oil that is sold for autos will not serve your Motorcycle well, for obvious reasons. Thus came JASO from the Japanese (worlds largest motorcycle manufacturer) to identify oil that is compatible for motorcycles, since most auto oil isn't. So now all one really needs to do is look for the JASO MA and be assured that you will do no harm to your ride. Actually the SL rated motor oil is suspect for motorcycle use even though BRP allows that. As far as the weight goes that is a temperature issue and not necessarily a performance issue. 5W40 oil is primarily for extremely cold weather since it is only a 5 weight oil with a lot of VII (viscosity index improvers) added to theroatically make that 5 weight oil function as well as a 40 weight at high temperatures. Personally I won't use a 5 weight oil here in Oklahoma.
http://www.bikenomads.com/wiki/index...r_oil_in_bikes
Michael
Last edited by BLACK WIDOW; 08-10-2009 at 02:37 PM.
Reason: addition
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Just stumbled across your message...
Originally Posted by BLACK WIDOW
The link is great. Contained more than enough info to understand how to make decisions about oils to use in the RT. Thanks.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by NancysToy
Advance Auto carries the Mobil1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil (actually not a racing oil but made for water-cooled sport bikes). I didn't like the spec on it, however, and will be trying the Castrol Syntec 5W-40, which is readily available at Advance Auto and AutoZone, among other places. Castrol makes a 5W-40 PowerRS R4 RT motorcycle oil, but it doesn't seem to be available locally, and the local stores couldn't order it. Amsoil makes a 10W-40 that is available locally, and is a top notch oil.
-Scotty
If Castrol wasn't a B.P. product, I'd be trying that too. But it is, and I will not use it period. I refuse to support B.P. in any way if I can help it. That's just me though... It's either going to be Mobil-1 Racing 4t or the redline product that HDXBONES was speaking of. I am familiar with that name and will research it.
(Minutes later) ... Well that didn't take long. The Redline has the JASO-MB rating.
TYPICAL PROPERTIES
API Service ClassSJ/SG/SH
JASO MB
Viscosity GradeSAE 10W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt14,
Vis @ 40°C, cSt88.7
Viscosity Index163CCS
Viscosity, Poise, @*C65@-25Pour Point, °C-45Pour Point, °F-49Flash Point,°C 249 Flash Point, °F480
Zinc, %wt0.25Phosphorous, %wt0.21Molybdenum, %wt0.05NOACK
Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), 5% Viscosity Loss, 30 Pass ASTM D62780
I am not comfortable with that, so for me Redline is out! Looks like we are back to Mobil-1 Racing 4T as the front runner. Amsoil is also going to get a look. Many here appear to be very happy with it.
Sure is different than back in the day when I was putting straight 40W Valvoline in my 600HP camaro!! Those were the days man...
Last edited by Raptor; 08-03-2010 at 04:41 PM.
"Life must be understood backward. But it must be lived forward."
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Sure is different than back in the day when I was putting straight 40W Valvoline in my 600HP camaro!! Those were the days man...[/QUOTE]
Yes, Yes they were. But now we Ryde. It's Amzoil for my .
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Originally Posted by Raptor
If Castrol wasn't a B.P. product, I'd be trying that too. But it is, and I will not use it period. I refuse to support B.P. in any way if I can help it. That's just me though...
That is one angle and I am not arguing with it. But consider another perspective.
BP is going to need a LOT of money to make good on it's promises to pay out (over 4 billion so far and counting) enough money to clean up the oil spill. If it gets too expensive given their revenue stream they can simply declare bankruptcy, reorganize under another name and leave everyone hanging and holding the bag.
BP does not have the luxury of GMC and Chrysler having the government print money to bail them out.
Punishment is coming from the cost of cleanup. You can starve the horse and he will quit pooping, but you’re not going to get any more benefit from him either.
The oil spill is a bad thing, but it has not been nearly as devastating as the news media and other groups would like us to believe. We need to base our response on reality and not on the hype.
BP, and every other oil company, is out there drilling so you can put fuel in your Spyder. The only way to end oil spills is to quit buying petroleum products.
BP puts out a quality product, Castrol oil being just one example.
Just my $0.02.
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Very Active Member
My last oil change was to Repsol 5W-40, before I could get any miles on, my coolant catch tank split, when it's fixed, I'll let you know how it works out.
john
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Registered Users
Originally Posted by bandwagon
What the heck is that? Hope it's not sea-doo oil because the service guy asked me what I used. I told him I don't know and that it's new. The part number is 293600121. I think the Spyder engine is running too hot. Four bars seem excessive in 59 degree weather, I noticed that both times when she went into limp mode the temp had four bars. That worries me too. ken
your fan is hiting and stalling the air from working mine did that and they replaced it free from dealer have them check it out bet it is the fan hiting the cover as it goes around .
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Originally Posted by BajaRon
That is one angle and I am not arguing with it. But consider another perspective.
BP is going to need a LOT of money to make good on it's promises to pay out (over 4 billion so far and counting) enough money to clean up the oil spill. If it gets too expensive given their revenue stream they can simply declare bankruptcy, reorganize under another name and leave everyone hanging and holding the bag.
BP does not have the luxury of GMC and Chrysler having the government print money to bail them out.
Punishment is coming from the cost of cleanup. You can starve the horse and he will quit pooping, but you’re not going to get any more benefit from him either.
The oil spill is a bad thing, but it has not been nearly as devastating as the news media and other groups would like us to believe. We need to base our response on reality and not on the hype.
BP, and every other oil company, is out there drilling so you can put fuel in your Spyder. The only way to end oil spills is to quit buying petroleum products.
BP puts out a quality product, Castrol oil being just one example.
Just my $0.02.
A voice of reason in a forest of hysteria. One question for those who think BP needs to be punished into oblivion....whos going to foot the bill for the clean up and and the other cost for this if BP goes broke? Heres a hint..it aint the Queen of England.
RAL
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Originally Posted by RAL
A voice of reason in a forest of hysteria. One question for those who think BP needs to be punished into oblivion....whos going to foot the bill for the clean up and and the other cost for this if BP goes broke? Heres a hint..it aint the Queen of England.
RAL
(Sshhhh.... I think this is called hyjacking the thread.....Great job!) 
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I have spent countless hours doing research on oil and have found the following to be true.
1. Full Synthetic oils are a very good thing, particulary in motorcycle wet clutch applications. They have much better wear properties, shear characteristics, and improve the shifting, vs Dino oils.
2.Synthetic blends are a crapshoot. There are no standards with respect to how much full synthetic product is in the oil, and no way to find out. Could be .01% or 10%, but be assured it is not much.
3. The Jaso Ma requirement for motorcycles is B/S unless you are using 30w or lighter oil in your bike. To my knowledge there are no 40w oils that contain friction modifiers, only 30w and below contain friction modifiers. So, as long as you are using an oil with a "40" or "50" in the weight rating you will not expierience any clutch slippage. Beyond that Dino or Syn is your choice.
JJ
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Originally Posted by jimjel
I have spent countless hours doing research on oil and have found the following to be true.
1. Full Synthetic oils are a very good thing, particulary in motorcycle wet clutch applications. They have much better wear properties, shear characteristics, and improve the shifting, vs Dino oils.
2.Synthetic blends are a crapshoot. There are no standards with respect to how much full synthetic product is in the oil, and no way to find out. Could be .01% or 10%, but be assured it is not much.
3. The Jaso Ma requirement for motorcycles is B/S unless you are using 30w or lighter oil in your bike. To my knowledge there are no 40w oils that contain friction modifiers, only 30w and below contain friction modifiers. So, as long as you are using an oil with a "40" or "50" in the weight rating you will not expierience any clutch slippage. Beyond that Dino or Syn is your choice.
JJ
 100% with points 1 and 2. Point 3 I'm not so sure about. Any multi viscosity oil will have several modifiers added. That is how they get the viscosity spread.
It is my understanding that all multi-viscosity oils have friction modifiers added unless spicifically blended without them (as in the MC wet clutch applications).
Friction modifiers are a very good thing everywhere except in a wet clutch. Even more reason to go with a full synthetic oil.
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When BRP says in their specs "or equivalent Motorcycle oil"; they have to be referring to a JASO-MA certified oil since that is the ONLY Motorcycle oil.
