Special spark plugs?

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10-20-2011, 10:03 PM
skeet

Special spark plugs?

I was having some trouble (after 3k+ overhaul) at low rpms so I called for advice-they said probably need to change the plugs. I had them to change the plugs, and it seems to have solved the problem. They advised they had installed a new(?) hotter plug called a BOUGIE PLUG, and charged me $19.99 each . I asked if they had an NGK number and they gave me NGKDCPR8E, so I checked with the local O'reilly store thinking I might save some money on the next set by getting them now. BIG SURPRISE--they keep 10 of them in stock--$2.30 each. I think I got ripped off. I'll check back with the dealer and see if they have an explaination for the markup. If not ,I'll be looking for another Service . this is on a 08 Spyder with 30K miles.
10-20-2011, 10:25 PM
chillicpl

Me thinks they saw you coming, Bougie is french for spark plug. Sorry to break the news to you.
10-20-2011, 10:51 PM
boborgera

Was the $19.99 each, With installing them, Or just for the plugs?:popcorn:
10-20-2011, 10:53 PM
BLUEKNIGHT911

spark plug

Because they probably didn't have the plug in stock, They charged you for the time and limo fee's to go down the street to NAPA TO GET TWO. Some dealers are like that consider your self lucky my dealer would have hired a helicopter to do it.:roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack: That's not actually funny Mike
10-21-2011, 07:04 AM
Bob Denman

But hasn't there also been a change regarding the type of plug and heat range used recently?? :dontknow:
Sorry about the "Bougies"... :gaah:
10-21-2011, 07:14 AM
boborgera

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

But hasn't there also been a change regarding the type of plug and heat range used recently?? :dontknow:
Sorry about the "Bougies"... :gaah:

Yes. The original were ''9'',s
10-21-2011, 10:42 AM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeet

I was having some trouble (after 3k+ overhaul) at low rpms so I called for advice-they said probably need to change the plugs. I had them to change the plugs, and it seems to have solved the problem. They advised they had installed a new(?) hotter plug called a BOUGIE PLUG, and charged me $19.99 each . I asked if they had an NGK number and they gave me NGKDCPR8E, so I checked with the local O'reilly store thinking I might save some money on the next set by getting them now. BIG SURPRISE--they keep 10 of them in stock--$2.30 each. I think I got ripped off. I'll check back with the dealer and see if they have an explaination for the markup. If not ,I'll be looking for another Service . this is on a 08 Spyder with 30K miles.

Even with labor that's pretty steep unless that's all you had done. A lot of work just to change spark plugs. And these are not "New". These are a standard OEM NGK spark plug that has been around for a long time.

I have seen these for as little as $1.90 each. Chances are, any new spark plug would have solved your low RPM miss problem (unless it was spark plug wires that were bad). The hotter heat range seems to be a universal fix for the issue you were having. If you don't ride your Spyder hard, or if you lug your engine (which I think is more common than many realize), the colder 9's can't burn off deposits. These build up on the spark plug and you start to get missfiring.

http://www.airplanegear.com/ngk-dcpr8e-solid.jpg

I hightly recommend the Iridium spark plugs. They deliver a stronger spark and deal with deposits better than the OEM design, and they will last a lot longer than OEM plugs. This is a good place to put in a 'Plug' (Pun intended) that I sell the NGK Iridium spark plugs for $17.00 delivered for the pair. Not too bad up against $19.99 each for $1.90 parts. But whether you get them from me or otherwise, it's just a good idea. But I digress..

Bigger is NOT ALWAYS better!

The big difference between these 2 designs is in the size and material used for the Center Electrode. Spark jumps best from a small surface with a sharp edge. The center electrode on an OEM style plug is big. The center electrode on the Iridium plug is very small. Each time the spark jumps, it blows away a small amount of metal. With this happening several thousand times a minute you can see there is going to be wear. Wear rounds the edges (increasing the amount of energy required for spark to jump). And as material is removed, the gap widens over time.

As all of this is taking place making it ever so slightly harder for the spark to jump each time, you may also be getting deposits building up on the electrodes. This greatly increases the difficulty of spark jumping the gap until it doesn't, at times. No spark, no ignition of the fuel charge in the cylinder. When this happens the deposits build up more quickly and you're in a vicious downward cycle.

Iridium plugs use a much harder material than OEM plugs. So, Iridium plugs are much more resistant to wear and very little material is removed even after thousands of miles. Because the center electrode is so small, it greatly limits the surface area availabe for deposits to accumulate. Everything is working in favor of a strong spark, every time, for a long time.

Though I don't recommend it in the Spyder, most appications recommend replacement at 100,000 miles for an Iridium plug.

http://cdn.cheapcycleparts.com/image.../supersize.jpg http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/graphics...CPR8E-4339.jpg
Iridium Plug ------------------------------------------------- OEM Style
10-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Bob Denman

Thanks for the explanation Ron! :clap:
Question: What is the correct number for the NGK Iridium plug?
(I'm not asking so that I can shop up here; I'm just trying to put together the list of improvements that I need to be doing!) :opps:
10-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Questions

Same question= 2011 RTS
10-21-2011, 11:07 AM
BajaRon

The Iridium plug called for in the RS is the NGK DCPR9EIX. for the RT it is the DCPR8EIX. The lower the number, the hotter the plug. This is not universal as some manufacturers it goes the other way. The lower number is Colder not Hotter. Clear as mud?

Most of the spark plug manufacturers make a comperable Iridium spark plug. You don't want any multiple electrode or other gimic spark plug. That's just marketing hype and most, if not all of those fancy plugs, actually REDUCE efficiency. They are much better at putting money in the vendors pocket than they are at firing the mixture in your cylinder.

I've talked to some dealers and they're putting the #8's in both. It's the customer's call on the RS. I'm running 9's in my Spyder but I ride it pretty hard and keep the RPM up where it should be. My feeling is that BRP will eventually recommend the #8's for everything.

A hotter plug may give the wrong idea. It does not mean a hotter spark. It means that the spark plug components themselves maintain a higher temperature.

There are 2 competing goals at work.

1- Colder is better for spark strength and plug component longevity.
2- Hotter is better for blowing off deposits

Too cold and your plug will foul quickly.
Too hot and you'll melt the plug and possibly the top of the piston.

Now these are extremes and nothing that any of us will have to worry about.

What you want is a happy medium over a wide range of environments. And that is what we are shooting for here. The #9's are fouling in some RS's (and in most if not all the RT's). So bumping the RT up a notch to the #8's is good. And may also help in the RS.

Going to a hotter plug is almost 100% to get rid of deposits. It isn't going to give you a hotter spark except in that with less deposits, you'll get a better spark.

There is an ideal temperature that a spark plug can opperate at. You want the spark plug to run at the lowest temperature you can and still produce an optium spark.
10-21-2011, 11:15 AM
Bob Denman

Wow! Thanks for even more information than I had originally requested! :ohyea: :firstplace:
Since I'm a "Low & Slow" kind of guy; I'm thinking "8s" for me..
10-21-2011, 11:17 AM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Denman

Wow! Thanks for even more information than I had originally requested! :ohyea: :firstplace:
Since I'm a "Low & Slow" kind of guy; I'm thinking "8s" for me..

It is confusing to talk about a lower number being a hotter plug. But you are right on. A low and slow rider will definitely benefit from a hotter plug. So you're an 8's kind of guy for sure!
10-21-2011, 02:18 PM
spyder3

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajaRon

It is confusing to talk about a lower number being a hotter plug. But you are right on. A low and slow rider will definitely benefit from a hotter plug. So you're an 8's kind of guy for sure!

Plus bob, i'm sure you can relate to "Because the center electrode is so small, it greatly limits the surface area availabe for deposits to accumulate" :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:
j
10-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Bob Denman

:gaah: Now I can think of more than several jokes in that statement that I prefer to not think about... :opps:
10-21-2011, 04:32 PM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder3

Plus bob, i'm sure you can relate to "Because the center electrode is so small, it greatly limits the surface area availabe for deposits to accumulate" :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:
j

I think this constitutes an abuse of the text.... but it is funny! :doorag:
10-22-2011, 12:22 PM
Bob Denman

Oh I'm just all over myself with laughter here... :D:shocked: