Front Wheel Balance and Balance Beads

What is the best way to balance the front tires/wheels on an F3T? It has new Vredestein tires that have ~3000 miles.

Issue: Right now both fronts are bubble balanced. Both wheels have a significant
number of weights tightly grouped together. There is still a bit of vibration from the front of the bike.
I'm wondering if the tires were installed with the heavy spot (dot) in the wrong location.

What is the best way to fix the vibration balance issue?

Options:
1. Scrape off the present weights and re-balance.

2. Find a different installer to remount the tires on the wheels and re-balance.

3. Leave the wheels and tires as is and add 1.5 oz of balance beads to each wheel.

Thanks, David C.

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Originally Posted by Haze

What is the best way to balance the front tires/wheels on an F3T? It has new Vredestein tires that have ~3000 miles.

Issue: Right now both fronts are bubble balanced. Both wheels have a significant
number of weights tightly grouped together. There is still a bit of vibration from the front of the bike.
I'm wondering if the tires were installed with the heavy spot (dot) in the wrong location.

What is the best way to fix the vibration balance issue?

Options:
1. Scrape off the present weights and re-balance.

2. Find a different installer to remount the tires on the wheels and re-balance.

3. Leave the wheels and tires as is and add 1.5 oz of balance beads to each wheel.

Thanks, David C.

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" Bubble Balance " as in Static balance ???? .... I just had my new Q-5's mounted and SPUN balanced ..... minimal weights and Spyder is smooth as Glass. ....... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

Are you sure the old weights were removed when the new tires were installed?

scrap weights off put ride on tire balance in

I have used Dyna Beads on my last 6 bikes with tubes and tubeless tires. Haven’t had any issues.


https://www.innovativebalancing.com/motorcycle.htm

I'd start with old weights cleaned off rim and re-balance. Bubble Balance is better than nothing but Spun is best with Marc Parnes as 2nd choice.
The dyna beads will work BUT, it may take a few minutes of riding before they loosen up and do their job. The other issue of beads is if you have to plug a flat, the beads will stick to the gooey plugs or tire sealant and will cancel any balancing ability.

Interesting about the beads sticking to the glue from a tire plug. Never thought about that. But if a plug was installed, the tire should be replaced as soon as possible.

Spin balancing by a competent & skilled operator is the best option you are likely to have; and if you get your tires re-balanced by such an operator, they'll remove all the old balance weights AND adjust the tire positioning on the rim if & as required to best match the heavy/light spots on both the rim & the tire & to reduce the impact of any (minor) radial runout that might be present. If you don't think your current installer would do that without you pushing for it, then by all means, find an installer/balancer who will! :lecturef_smilie: . Balancing the front tires of a Spyder should be a simple task, just so long as they've got the right size fittings for their machine, and since our Spyder rims have the same dia holes & stud set-up as some modern cars, they shouldn't really have any hassles or concerns with getting those so they can do a proper job for you... :thumbup:

Using balance beads or fluid is a bit of a bandaid solution that may or may not work all that well that was invented to cater for tires that weren't made to the same standards of quality & balance that most modern auto tires are, so you shouldn't really need to use any of that with a properly balanced quality auto tire like the Vredesteins. If you do feel the need after a 'proper' spin balance, it might pay to get your tire tech to check the balance of the RIM alone - ie. take the tire off and spin balance the rim by itself just to check its balance & see if it's true.... there have been 'a few' dodgy rims from the factory hit the streets on Spyders/Rykers! :rolleyes:

Good Luck! :cheers:

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Originally Posted by fatboy

scrap weights off put ride on tire balance in

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And, according to the product tech at Ride-On, use the motorcycle product at regular dosage level, EVEN in car tires..

Thanks to all for the advice. Spin balance is my next option...

Just FWIW, there are multiple methods to accomplish a static balance. The old and kind on antiquated method of the horizontal bubble balance setup is one method, a second method is vertical static balancing with the wheel mounted on cones and a spindle, then placed on a form of either rolling or true knife edges. Third is where the tire / wheel assembly is spun while in the static setting. Overall, the common factor in all three techniques and tooling is that no emphasis is done to prevent wobble or precession. Static balance, merely removes the tire / wheel assembly imbalance in regards to lessening hop. In the era of high aspect ratio tire / wheel assemblies removing hop was important and the aspect ratio naturally lessened chances of precession. In my opinion / experience, bubble balancing is least desired of the three, knife edge balancing is superior to bubble balancing, while machine spin static balancing is the better of the three.

As aspect ratios decreased, true dynamic balancing became more important. This not only balances to remove vertical imbalance or hop, done correctly it will remove imbalance at each end of the rotating mass. This prevents wobble or precession type issues.

In regards to will a tech remove a tire and find a better position on the wheel, maybe but unlikely, unless there is a huge amount of weight required OR the equipment they are using is the modern road force style that explains to the tech that the reposition is needed.

The balancer I have here at home allows me to balance a multitude of automotive and truck setups and easily balance Spyder fronts to within one tenth of an ounce dynamically and spun for static imbalance. With oem Kendas front tires, I have sorted balance issues for local Spyder owners when their local dealer could not resolve the issues and refused to work on the Spyder any more. Balancing good tires such as Federal Formoza front tires typically requires very little weight. Our own Spyder, with Fomoza fronts, dynamically balanced and running centramatic balancers is stupid smooth.

If you were nearby, 15 minutes and you would be dialed in, unless the tire was not round.

When I had my set of Vredestein Quatrac SL tires put on the front I told the tire place to balance them, but there is no weights on them and there fine. Evidently these tires are made well enough, Just like the Avon's I used on my motorcycle as they had no mark for where the valve stem should be.

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Originally Posted by RangerRick

When I had my set of Vredestein Quatrac SL tires put on the front I told the tire place to balance them, but there is no weights on them and there fine. Evidently these tires are made well enough, Just like the Avon's I used on my motorcycle as they had no mark for where the valve stem should be.

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Just a short note here, There is no such tire as a VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL, The SL stands for Standard Load and has a max pressure of 35psi, XL's are to 41psi
It is not a tire model

T.P.

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Originally Posted by T.P.

Just a short note here, There is no such tire as a VREDESTEIN QUATRAC SL, The SL stands for Standard Load and has a max pressure of 35psi, XL's are to 41psi
It is not a tire model

T.P.

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OK so it's a VREDESTEIN QUATRAC :bowdown:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...rtnum=755TR5QT

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Originally Posted by RangerRick

When I had my set of Vredestein Quatrac SL tires put on the front I told the tire place to balance them, but there is no weights on them and there fine. Evidently these tires are made well enough, Just like the Avon's I used on my motorcycle as they had no mark for where the valve stem should be.

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I suppose it is possible to have two tires mounted and need no balance weights, but seems extremely unlikely. More possible is, as others here indicate, unskilled techs accomplishing important tasks. Then again, maybe you did get two perfectly balanced tire / wheel assemblies that needed no weight at all.

Centramatic wheel balancers is what I’m using.

I tried the balance beads when I got my new Quatracs last year and they just didn't work well. Found out that the Quatracs don't have a smooth inner surface and the beads stick all over, not leaving enough loose beads to give enough balance. It maybe could have been fixed by using even more beads, but rather than doing that I removed the beads and balanced the tires with a Marc Parnes balancer kit for the Spyder. They are super smooth now.

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Originally Posted by Yabbadabbadoo

I tried the balance beads when I got my new Quatracs last year and they just didn't work well. Found out that the Quatracs don't have a smooth inner surface and the beads stick all over, not leaving enough loose beads to give enough balance. It maybe could have been fixed by using even more beads, but rather than doing that I removed the beads and balanced the tires with a Marc Parnes balancer kit for the Spyder. They are super smooth now.

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I was about to say just bung some more beads in after the first lot commit suicide on the glue. Must be like a creek bed inside those Quatracs.

I agree with everyone who advises to start over. You need a spin balance. Then add your dynamic balancing ceramic beads, Ride-On or Lamonster balancing disks. The idea here is that you start with a good balance. But as the tire wears, that balance will start to go away. These dynamic systems aren't so much to FIX a bad balance job. But to keep it as the tire wears.

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Originally Posted by troop

And, according to the product tech at Ride-On, use the motorcycle product at regular dosage level, EVEN in car tires..

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I know Ride-On says this now. But they used to recommend their Car Tire product in the car tires we have (OEM or Aftermarket) on our Spyder. I've tried both and I much prefer the Car Tire version in the Spyder. I can speculate that the change in Ride-On's advice is due to a CYA decision to avoid any liability for putting a 'Car Tire' product in a 'Motorcycle Only' Tire. I don't know.

The Car Tire version of Ride-On focuses on balance with a lower priority on quick sealing properties. The Motorcycle version focuses on quick sealing and balance as a secondary attribute. When you think about it. It makes sense. A car tire/wheel assembly has much greater mass to balance. A motorcycle tire has a much smaller mass.

A car tire has a much greater air volume at (usually) a lower tire pressure. Whereas your motorcycle tire has a much lower volume of air at a higher pressure.

Lastly. A flat on a car tire, while not good, is not nearly as dangerous as on 2 wheels. Taken all together. Ride-On has taken a logical approach to their products. What doesn't make sense is the advise to put a motorcycle specific product in a car tire. Regardless of what it is mounted on. The tire/wheel assembly doesn't know what kind of vehicle it is carrying.

For me. I want as much balance as I can get. The car version will give you reasonable puncture protection in the tread area. Nothing will protect you from a puncture in the sidewall.

Just my 2 cents worth. You should do what you think best. It's your ride.

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Originally Posted by Tourer

I have used Dyna Beads on my last 6 bikes with tubes and tubeless tires. Haven’t had any issues.


https://www.innovativebalancing.com/motorcycle.htm

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I have a 2021 RT SE6 with 2,500 miles and have a slight wobble felt in the handlebar @ 60 to 65 mph and then smooth as glass. I just ordered some E-Z tire beads from Amazon, that I will install soon. My question is, how many Ounces in the fronts and how much in the rear? Is 15 psi in front what is recommended? Rear? Thanks. Sam

Go and Get the road force Balance if you can find one in your area. (fronts) The rear I never had done and only use the beads on the rear.

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Hi Dave, Hope it wasn't our local dealer( who will go nameless at the moment). When I had my first auto rear tire put on my :spyder2: there, the tech rotated the tire on the rim and no weights needed.

In any case, I'd start from fresh. old weights off and a road force balance if possible.

We need a BattleBorn ryde over Monitor Pass before it closes 4 the winter............

Lew L

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Originally Posted by Rocketman 2012

I have a 2021 RT SE6 with 2,500 miles and have a slight wobble felt in the handlebar @ 60 to 65 mph and then smooth as glass. I just ordered some E-Z tire beads from Amazon, that I will install soon. My question is, how many Ounces in the fronts and how much in the rear? Is 15 psi in front what is recommended? Rear? Thanks. Sam

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Sam, how can a tire / wheel imbalance end or stop because you increase your speed ...... to me this defies logic...... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

Sam, how can a tire / wheel imbalance end or stop because you increase your speed ...... to me this defies logic...... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

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OH! That's an easy answer Mike. If you go fast enough. You're so scared you don't notice!:yikes::yikes::yikes: