New RT and Old Trailer

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10-28-2009, 11:52 PM
DeeKay53

New RT and Old Trailer

Does any one know if you can tow a different trailer than the BRP one made to go with the RT. I am lead to beleive the BRP one is wired to work with the sensors etc. If this is the case then how do we get around it considering I can't afford a new trailer.:helpsmilie:Is there going to be an after market tow bar/hitch avalible!!!
10-28-2009, 11:58 PM
Ken5517 / Wish Again

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeKay53

Does any one know if you can tow a different trailer than the BRP one made to go with the RT. I am lead to beleive the BRP one is wired to work with the sensors etc. If this is the case then how do we get around it considering I can't afford a new trailer.:helpsmilie:Is there going to be an after market tow bar/hitch avalible!!!

Answer

Use only a BRP trailer designed specifically for the Roadster RT series or a BRP approved equivalent.

This is important to ensure the trailer and the
roadster remain stable during normal
operation and it does not interferewith
the vehicle stability system.

NOTICE The use of a nonrecommended
wiring harness may lead to vehicle electrical system failure.

Hope this helps - I am sure that the after market people will figure out a safe way.
But this is the current recommendation.
10-29-2009, 05:55 AM
NancysToy

I am aware of the wording in the manual that Ken quoted. Keep in mind that BRP has similar cautions against all accessories not approved by them...which is any they didn't produce. That includes exhaust systems, air filters, knee pads, luggage, tires, etc. I personally would not fret, as long as your trailer meets the tongue weight and total weight restrictions stated by BRP in their specs. I think this is particularly true if you have the BRP hitch and wiring harness.

There is some question as to how the VSS will respond to another trailer. It is not known yet if the BRP trailer wiring somehow changes the VSS response, similar to what a passenger does. I myself doubt it, since the tongue weight is far less than the luggage capacity, which doesn't change the VSS. There is no real way to know for sure until there is a service manual and a wiring diagram...and even then we will not know what the program actually changes if the trailer wiring is routed through the VCM.

There are lots of unapproved trailers running around out there now on GS Spyders...and also Goldwings, Harleys, BMWs, and so on. I see no reason the RT will not be as adaptable. There will be a need for wiring considerations such as separate turn signals on the trailer, or a 3-2 wiring converter, and also a battery powered wiring isolator, but I think another brand of trailer is entirely feasible if set up right. Your warranty might be in jeopardy if the trailer or wiring causes a failure, though, unlike the BRP unit.
10-29-2009, 05:59 AM
BumbleBee

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeKay53

Does any one know if you can tow a different trailer than the BRP one made to go with the RT. I am lead to beleive the BRP one is wired to work with the sensors etc. If this is the case then how do we get around it considering I can't afford a new trailer.:helpsmilie:Is there going to be an after market tow bar/hitch avalible!!!

Did you order a RT? If yes, add yourself on our list, we are keeping count!!!

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14987
10-29-2009, 06:31 AM
DeeKay53

Thanks

Thanks everyone, I can rest my worries for awhile.

I have already added my name to you list Bumble Bee
10-29-2009, 06:36 AM
BumbleBee

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeKay53

Thanks everyone, I can rest my worries for awhile.

I have already added my name to you list Bumble Bee

I had already added you in, sorry, and Thanks.

19-RT'S & 9 Trailers
:ohyea::spyder2::yes::2thumbs:
10-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Ken5517 / Wish Again

Quote:

Originally Posted by NancysToy

I am aware of the wording in the manual that Ken quoted. Keep in mind that BRP has similar cautions against all accessories not approved by them...which is any they didn't produce. That includes exhaust systems, air filters, knee pads, luggage, tires, etc. I personally would not fret, as long as your trailer meets the tongue weight and total weight restrictions stated by BRP in their specs. I think this is particularly true if you have the BRP hitch and wiring harness.

There is some question as to how the VSS will respond to another trailer. It is not known yet if the BRP trailer wiring somehow changes the VSS response, similar to what a passenger does. I myself doubt it, since the tongue weight is far less than the luggage capacity, which doesn't change the VSS. There is no real way to know for sure until there is a service manual and a wiring diagram...and even then we will not know what the program actually changes if the trailer wiring is routed through the VCM.

There are lots of unapproved trailers running around out there now on GS Spyders...and also Goldwings, Harleys, BMWs, and so on. I see no reason the RT will not be as adaptable. There will be a need for wiring considerations such as separate turn signals on the trailer, or a 3-2 wiring converter, and also a battery powered wiring isolator, but I think another brand of trailer is entirely feasible if set up right. Your warranty might be in jeopardy if the trailer or wiring causes a failure, though, unlike the BRP unit.

My concern is the wiring harness and the VSS system.

My understanding is that the VSS system reconizes the trailer and adjusts the VSS - what that means I am not sure, there are no brakes on the trailer so the bike must compensate for the trailer weight and push for stopping.

Got Me!:dontknow:
10-29-2009, 10:49 AM
Lamonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken5517 / Wish Again

My concern is the wiring harness and the VSS system.

My understanding is that the VSS system reconizes the trailer and adjusts the VSS - what that means I am not sure, there are no brakes on the trailer so the bike must compensate for the trailer weight and push for stopping.

Got Me!:dontknow:

VSS does not recognize my trailer on my RS and has not been a problem for the last 30,000 miles. I'm pretty sure the RT will handle it much the same. May not be as good as it could be but should be fine.
10-29-2009, 11:01 AM
BajaRon

:agree:with Nancy's Toy. There are several reasons why BRP would make the statement quoted from the manual. You can bet LEGAL required it, and BRP will make many more trailer sales because of it.

You know the dealers will love it. Look how they convince owners to pay twice the price for generic oil because it has a BRP label slapped on the front! I must say, though, that the trailer is a great value (unlike the oil)

There are no down sides to this declaration for BRP.

But on the reality side of the coin is the fact that all trailers currently pulled by the RS (and every other motorcyle ever made) are "Unauthorized", declared "Dangerous" and prohibited by the manufacturer.

It is likely that the BRP trailer has sensors that communicate with the RT VSS system which will probably be an advantage. So it is likely that the RT will perform better with the BRP trailer than with other trailers.

But it is also likely that the RT will perform at least as well with an aftermarket trailer as the RS does now. And that will be more than good enough for many owners.

Bottom line, if you can afford the BRP trailer, get that. If you can't, don't worry about it.
10-29-2009, 11:45 AM
madozier

Quote:

Originally Posted by NancysToy

I am aware of the wording in the manual that Ken quoted. Keep in mind that BRP has similar cautions against all accessories not approved by them...which is any they didn't produce. That includes exhaust systems, air filters, knee pads, luggage, tires, etc. I personally would not fret, as long as your trailer meets the tongue weight and total weight restrictions stated by BRP in their specs. I think this is particularly true if you have the BRP hitch and wiring harness.

There is some question as to how the VSS will respond to another trailer. It is not known yet if the BRP trailer wiring somehow changes the VSS response, similar to what a passenger does. I myself doubt it, since the tongue weight is far less than the luggage capacity, which doesn't change the VSS. There is no real way to know for sure until there is a service manual and a wiring diagram...and even then we will not know what the program actually changes if the trailer wiring is routed through the VCM.

There are lots of unapproved trailers running around out there now on GS Spyders...and also Goldwings, Harleys, BMWs, and so on. I see no reason the RT will not be as adaptable. There will be a need for wiring considerations such as separate turn signals on the trailer, or a 3-2 wiring converter, and also a battery powered wiring isolator, but I think another brand of trailer is entirely feasible if set up right. Your warranty might be in jeopardy if the trailer or wiring causes a failure, though, unlike the BRP unit.

Is there a manual for the RT posted somewhere or are the dealers giving them to you when you pre-order?
10-29-2009, 12:16 PM
Ken5517 / Wish Again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamonster

VSS does not recognize my trailer on my RS and has not been a problem for the last 30,000 miles. I'm pretty sure the RT will handle it much the same. May not be as good as it could be but should be fine.

Here it appears that some computer programs make ajustments

When a trailer is towed, it is required to
set the trailermode in the infotainment
center so that the vehicle uses a different
engine RPM treshold to downshift
earlier than without towing a trailer.
This will also adapt the upshift operation.

Refer to
SETTING THE TRAILER
MODE (p.90) to set it.

NOTICE

If the trailer mode is not
selected through the infotainment
center before towing a trailer, engine
components might be damaged.

All Models

The VSS ( stability system) on the roadster
RT series incorporates a program
that allows to tow a BRP trailer while
maintaining appropriate vehicle stability
control.
10-29-2009, 01:36 PM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken5517 / Wish Again

NOTICE

If the trailer mode is not
selected through the infotainment
center before towing a trailer, engine
components might be damaged.

All Models

Interesting that you can damage your RT if you don't select "Trailer Mode" when towing. What happens if you have your RT in trailer mode when not towing? I don't like that.

Seems to me plugging the BRP trailer into the electrical jack should trigger/switch the appropriate components into or out of trailer mode. Now I wonder if there is any direct communication between the trailer and the RT.

And, if you have to set the RT for 'Trailer Mode' I'm wondering why this wouldn't work just as well for an aftermarket trailer.
10-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Ken5517 / Wish Again

I'm not a tech but I wonder:dontknow:
10-29-2009, 02:43 PM
Lamonster

That's talking about the SE, It changes the shift points when you have it in trailer mode. If you had a RT-SE then you're right it should be wired up to adjust the clutch. It would be a matter of wiring the plug to activate the trailer mode.
10-29-2009, 05:24 PM
NancysToy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamonster

That's talking about the SE, It changes the shift points when you have it in trailer mode. If you had a RT-SE then you're right it should be wired up to adjust the clutch. It would be a matter of wiring the plug to activate the trailer mode.

I don't think there is any wiring involved. If that were the case, you would not have to manually switch the SE Spyder to trailer mode on the digital display, it would be done automatically when it sensed the wiring.
10-29-2009, 07:18 PM
Lamonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by NancysToy

I don't think there is any wiring involved. If that were the case, you would not have to manually switch the SE Spyder to trailer mode on the digital display, it would be done automatically when it sensed the wiring.

When I drove the RT-SE there was no trailer mode in the menu, it only shows up when the trailer is plugged in. My guess is they don't want you running in trailer mode without a trailer hooked up.
10-29-2009, 09:22 PM
BajaRon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamonster

When I drove the RT-SE there was no trailer mode in the menu, it only shows up when the trailer is plugged in. My guess is they don't want you running in trailer mode without a trailer hooked up.

Why would they make you manually switch to tralier mode if the VSS already knows there is a trailer connected? Especially if you can damage the Spyder if you tow a trailer and you're not in trailer mode.

What am I missing here?
10-29-2009, 10:15 PM
NancysToy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamonster

When I drove the RT-SE there was no trailer mode in the menu, it only shows up when the trailer is plugged in. My guess is they don't want you running in trailer mode without a trailer hooked up.

Now that makes some sense, although I don't know if it will show up on the SM5 since it is only needed for the SE5. It would be just as easy to automatically program it to change to trailer mode when the wire was hooked up, though, as to make trailer mode appear on the display. Maybe this is still being refined.
10-30-2009, 07:17 AM
Lamonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by BajaRon

Why would they make you manually switch to tralier mode if the VSS already knows there is a trailer connected? Especially if you can damage the Spyder if you tow a trailer and you're not in trailer mode.

What am I missing here?

My understanding is the VSS braking works the same with or without the trailer. When I was at the dealer show I had mixed reports about that but from the guys I did know and trust they said the braking is the same, the only thing that changes is the shift rpm's on the SE. :dontknow:
10-30-2009, 11:00 PM
Ken5517 / Wish Again

i'm confused:gaah:
10-31-2009, 03:15 PM
Roaddog2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamonster

VSS does not recognize my trailer on my RS and has not been a problem for the last 30,000 miles. I'm pretty sure the RT will handle it much the same. May not be as good as it could be but should be fine.

:agree:no problems with mine:ani29:
10-31-2009, 03:48 PM
Spyder#353

Quote:

Originally Posted by NancysToy

I am aware of the wording in the manual that Ken quoted. Keep in mind that BRP has similar cautions against all accessories not approved by them...which is any they didn't produce. That includes exhaust systems, air filters, knee pads, luggage, tires, etc. I personally would not fret, as long as your trailer meets the tongue weight and total weight restrictions stated by BRP in their specs. I think this is particularly true if you have the BRP hitch and wiring harness.

There is some question as to how the VSS will respond to another trailer. It is not known yet if the BRP trailer wiring somehow changes the VSS response, similar to what a passenger does. I myself doubt it, since the tongue weight is far less than the luggage capacity, which doesn't change the VSS. There is no real way to know for sure until there is a service manual and a wiring diagram...and even then we will not know what the program actually changes if the trailer wiring is routed through the VCM.

There are lots of unapproved trailers running around out there now on GS Spyders...and also Goldwings, Harleys, BMWs, and so on. I see no reason the RT will not be as adaptable. There will be a need for wiring considerations such as separate turn signals on the trailer, or a 3-2 wiring converter, and also a battery powered wiring isolator, but I think another brand of trailer is entirely feasible if set up right. Your warranty might be in jeopardy if the trailer or wiring causes a failure, though, unlike the BRP unit.

:agree:

All so, to add. The day I left for Gatlinburg. On my 08 Spyder with my new Bushtec trailer. On the road only 10 miles from home and it started to rain. No sprinkles. Hard rain. Road was the Florida turn pike is under construction. Water belt up fast. Before I knew anything, I was sitting sideways and I could reach out and touch my trailer on my left side.:yikes: Front wheels were still aiming in the direction of travel. I stopped breathing. I stepped on the brake and the VSS and ABS kicked in and the next thing I knew I was going straight again.:bowdown: Pulled over to collect my self. Wasn't stopped two minutes, when 4 cars hit the same water and the wrecking began.:yikes: I'm sure there won't be any trouble with your old trailer and the new RT. Love that VSS and ABS.:thumbup: That's my testimonial.nojoke
10-31-2009, 03:53 PM
NancysToy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder#353

:agree:

All so, to add. The day I left for Gatlinburg. On my 08 Spyder with my new Bushtec trailer. On the road only 10 miles from home and it started to rain. No sprinkles. Hard rain. Road was the Florida turn pike is under construction. Water belt up fast. Before I knew anything, I was sitting sideways and I could reach out and touch my trailer on my left side.:yikes: Front wheels were still aiming in the direction of travel. I stopped breathing. I stepped on the brake and the VSS and ABS kicked in and the next thing I knew I was going straight again.:bowdown: Pulled over to collect my self. Wasn't stopped two minutes, when 4 cars hit the same water and the wrecking began.:yikes: I'm sure there won't be any trouble with your old trailer and the new RT. Love that VSS and ABS.:thumbup: That's my testimonial.nojoke

So you get the distinction of being the first to jackknife a Spyder-trailer rig. :firstplace: It is still the safest motorcycle on the road, I don't care what anyone says. Thanks for the commentary.