A good warm-up - reduce blow-by oil (oil in the airbox)?

Hi there guys.

Just a quick question:

Will warming up the Spyder to at least two bars (maybe three) reduce the amount of air in the airbox, from a stock airbox Spyder configuration (ie: no catch can or filter or other modifications used)?

I also warm-up to just one bar before I ride, every time, but I'm still getting oil in the airbox.

Just curious, thanks!!

I believe some others have used a sponge-like material stuffed inside the crankcase breather tube between the crankcase and the airbox which reduced or eliminated the oil blow-by. It can be cleaned or replaced at interval oil changes and is relatively easy to do I'd imagine.

I have nothing in mine currently, but oil blow-by has never really concerned me, it's so minimal. I tried the catch can but that blew up in my face (and all over the motor and sensors on the Spyder). Ask me about this one if you're curious what happened. :yikes:

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Originally Posted by groundeffect

Hi there guys.

Just a quick question:

Will warming up the Spyder to at least two bars (maybe three) reduce the amount of air in the airbox, from a stock airbox Spyder configuration (ie: no catch can or filter or other modifications used)?

I also warm-up to just one bar before I ride, every time, but I'm still getting oil in the airbox.

Just curious, thanks!!

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p/s It only blows by when engine is hot and medium to high RPM's

You can go two ways to stop the oil in the air box.
Catch can or sponge in the tube.
I fixed my problem with the sponge, 15/20 minute job, no Rube Goldberg
plumbing involved.

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Originally Posted by SpyderGirl

I believe some others have used a sponge-like material stuffed inside the crankcase breather tube between the crankcase and the airbox which reduced or eliminated the oil blow-by. It can be cleaned or replaced at interval oil changes and is relatively easy to do I'd imagine.

I have nothing in mine currently, but oil blow-by has never really concerned me, it's so minimal. I tried the catch can but that blew up in my face (and all over the motor and sensors on the Spyder). Ask me about this one if you're curious what happened. :yikes:

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Thanks for the note.
I've researched a few options on the forum for possible solutions and found a few, including the catch-can and the filter material in the hose.

I've thought about it before, and but have not yet pulled the trigger on a mod to keep the airbox free of oil.

From what I can gather, blow-by oil in the airbox is common on some machines, (spyders and non-spyders, ie: two wheel motorcycles, etc... in some cases).

I do not really mind cleaning out the airbox once in a while, as it does give me an excuse to get under the panels and check a few other things while I'm at it. However, a simple fix, it seems, like the filter material in the hose, seems like a great way to do, cheap, effective and doesn't alter much or anything on the machine, so it's pretty close stock and I like that.

Spydergirl - I hope you didn't get full of oil when it blew-up - hmm... explain please or dare I ask!?!


cheers!

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Originally Posted by boborgera

no Rube Goldberg plumbing involved.

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Not me...you need to be a plumber to figure mine out!!! :roflblack:

I ran a hose to the catch can and mounted the can to the oil cooler support bracket so I can get to it easily by removing the one panel. The output hose goes back to the air box so it's still EPA legal. :D

No more oil in the airbox.

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Originally Posted by boborgera

You can go two ways to stop the oil in the air box.
Catch can or sponge in the tube.
I fixed my problem with the sponge, 15/20 minute job, no Rube Goldberg
plumbing involved.

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Yeah, the sponge in the tube, I think that will be the way I may go, however, I'll give it another 1000km first (just cleaned the airbox last night) and see how it goes. Then I will likely track down some of that sponge material and give that a try.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate your time.
Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Some Guy

Not me...you need to be a plumber to figure mine out!!! :roflblack:

I ran a hose to the catch can and mounted the can to the oil cooler support bracket so I can get to it easily by removing the one panel. The output hose goes back to the air box so it's still EPA legal. :D

No more oil in the airbox.

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:firstplace:
I never though of that, I learn something new every day.
THANKS:bowdown:

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Originally Posted by groundeffect

Spydergirl - I hope you didn't get full of oil when it blew-up - hmm... explain please or dare I ask!?!

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Filter material in the tube is your best bet. When I get around to it, I'll probably do this to mine... for now the oil blow-by doesn't bother me.

As for my story.... well before leaving on our cross-country trip I installed Lamont's catch-can design on my Spyder. It seemed to be okay most of the trip, however as we started back from east TN and headed into Arkansas I noticed that the instrument cluster was resetting itself over and over while cruising down the freeway (you know, what it does when you first stick in the key and turn on the ignition).

I was freaking out, I didn't know what it was and it didn't seem to get any better. Since it was so humid out (and now I remember why I moved from the mid-west) and we had ridden through some rain, I just assumed that the water was the culprit (even though rain had never caused issues before) -- I never assumed that the catch canister was the problem.

When we stopped in Little Rock for the night I frantically called up my dealer back in CA and asked the tech if he had ever heard of anything and he was as confused as me. The next morning I called up the nearest dealer which was at the Arkansas / Oklahoma border, however their BUDS software wasn't working.... GREAT!

It wasn't until we got to New Mexico (ridiculous it took me this long to find the problem) that I noticed oil on the outside of the Spyder panel near the vent on the left side... then it hit me... there was oil spraying on the sensors. So in the blazing hot sun in the middle of nowhere New Mexico I took the panel off and found oil had sprayed everywhere!!

I removed the catch can, wiped around the sensors the best I could, re-attached the hose to the airbox and the problem never came back. I never did figure how how the catch can failed. It took me over an hour with a bottle of Simple Green, a hose, and a toothbrush to clean the motor and get the oil off of wires and sensors.

What a mess (and an adventure)!!

Spydergirl, yes quite the adventure indeed! All good memories now I would guess, since you figured it out and the mess is all cleaned up! :).


I do indeed, hope and think the sponge method works for us in the future.

Thanks for the story!
Cheers.

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Originally Posted by groundeffect

Spydergirl, yes quite the adventure indeed! All good memories now I would guess, since you figured it out and the mess is all cleaned up! :).


I do indeed, hope and think the sponge method works for us in the future.

Thanks for the story!
Cheers.

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I am happy that besides having to remove the rear fender, this was the worst thing that happend to us on our 6200 mile adventure... and we got home safe with many pictures and memories. :)

The sponge/filter does seem to be the best option.

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Originally Posted by boborgera

p/s It only blows by when engine is hot and medium to high RPM's

You can go two ways to stop the oil in the air box.
Catch can or sponge in the tube.
I fixed my problem with the sponge, 15/20 minute job, no Rube Goldberg
plumbing involved.

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Or you can remove the airbox and go with the Evoluzione Race intake or Kewlmetal intake system.......

As long as you don't mind NOISE!

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Originally Posted by Firefly

Or you can remove the airbox and go with the Evoluzione Race intake or Kewlmetal intake system.......

As long as you don't mind NOISE!

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Thank you for your reply. That was the third of three options I read about, this being the (to me) more complex of the three. Since I would like to stay as close to stock as possible, the sponge in the tube idea still seems to be a good option.

thanks.

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... That was the third of three options I read about, this being the (to me) more complex of the three. Since I would like to stay as close to stock as possible, the sponge in the tube idea still seems to be a good option.

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+Stock is still an option, too, right? It's perhaps the least complex (sorta) of all... RK

The K&N Filter that I am running, and I would assume the Green Filter and Evoluzione are the same, doesn't mind the oil at all. It is already an oiled filter, so the blow by is not going to plug it up like it will the stock paper filter. It also fits in the air box so no need for modifying anything there, only you will know the stock filter is not in there. You will still need to clean it out every once in a while though.

Best of luck with whatever approach you take Dean.

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Originally Posted by SpyderWolf

The K&N Filter that I am running, and I would assume the Green Filter and Evoluzione are the same, doesn't mind the oil at all. It is already an oiled filter, so the blow by is not going to plug it up like it will the stock paper filter. It also fits in the air box so no need for modifying anything there, only you will know the stock filter is not in there. You will still need to clean it out every once in a while though.

Best of luck with whatever approach you take Dean.

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At least on mine the blow by was under the filter, the stock filter was and is bone dry, The oil would drip out bottom right side of the air box. It cant go thru the filter.

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Originally Posted by boborgera

At least on mine the blow by was under the filter, the stock filter was and is bone dry, The oil would drip out bottom right side of the air box. It cant go thru the filter.

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That would have been nice if it had happened for our Spyders as well. Both mine and my wife's air filters were oil soaked at least 1/4 of the way back from the front of the Spyder. :( I am most likely going to go back to the stock filter on hers, as she does not want a Juice Box or anything like that, and then try the sponge deal as well.

My stock filter was pretty dry, but the oil leaked out of the airbox and the right side of my Spyder was always getting oil covered...which, of course, got really dirty.

The catch can stopped all that. :thumbup:

(I have the Green filter now, but not for that reason)

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Originally Posted by groundeffect

Thank you for your reply. That was the third of three options I read about, this being the (to me) more complex of the three. Since I would like to stay as close to stock as possible, the sponge in the tube idea still seems to be a good option.

thanks.

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Both the Kewlmetal and Evoluzione intake units are well made and work well.... but they really do add a LOT of noise--- hence why I had to build my own airbox and cold-air intakes to reduce the noise while still allowing better airflow.

While I think the sponge might be a good temporary fix.... the ideal solution would be a good catch-can system.

Aerocharger will have one that works with their Turbo kit... and might sell it as a separate kit.... that would be the way I would lean if they sell it separately for a decent price...:thumbup:

I tried the catch can thing and believe that it may be responsible for ALL of my gaskets giving out. I think there was something wrong with the bowl that I had. It leaked oil pretty badly and seemed to have a lot of back pressure on it when I blew through it. After having the bike in the shop five months to stop all of the oil leaks that it probably created I took it off.

I suggest that you leave it alone and just run your oil level lower which will stop most of it. I bought a 20 dollar oil pan and put it under the bike and that is how it is going to stay.

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Originally Posted by Recluze

I bought a 20 dollar oil pan and put it under the bike and that is how it is going to stay.

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Mine hasn't been anywhere near that bad yet, key word being yet. :D The worst I have seen so far is a little bit of oil on the matte black section underneath the radiator cover. This has cleaned off easily so far. My wife's Spyder does it more, as her oil level is almost to the full mark while mine is at the halfway point.

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Originally Posted by Roadkill

+Stock is still an option, too, right? It's perhaps the least complex (sorta) of all... RK

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Indeed, completely stock, unchanged Spyder is absolutely an option, of course. The only thing is just every 3000-4000km or so (or when you notice oil seaping from the airbox) you remove the covers, and the top of the airbox and clean it out. It is also a good to check your air filter and a few other things under the panels, since you are already there!


Thanks for the note.

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Originally Posted by boborgera

At least on mine the blow by was under the filter, the stock filter was and is bone dry, The oil would drip out bottom right side of the air box. It cant go thru the filter.

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The blow-by oil I'm seeing in my airbox is not getting on the air filter at all.

Thanks for your note.

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Originally Posted by Recluze

I tried the catch can thing and believe that it may be responsible for ALL of my gaskets giving out. I think there was something wrong with the bowl that I had. It leaked oil pretty badly and seemed to have a lot of back pressure on it when I blew through it. After having the bike in the shop five months to stop all of the oil leaks that it probably created I took it off.

I suggest that you leave it alone and just run your oil level lower which will stop most of it. I bought a 20 dollar oil pan and put it under the bike and that is how it is going to stay.

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Thank you for your post. My blow-by oil was not too too bad, but there was enough oil in there for me to notice a drip on the rad and a drop blow from the fan on the right side cover/panel. I got in there and cleaned the airbox, no real problem. I try and keep a close eye on things, so I hope to catch things like this very quickly at the start.

Now, when I check my coolant levels, maybe once or twice a week - it only take 1 minute, I will check the front of the airbox - just get a garage lamp and peek in behind the coolant tank and inspect the seam where the airbox top meets the lower part. If no oil there, I'm good.

For at least another 1000km or so, I will be running stock. My oil level now is near the ADD mark, but still within spec, of course. I will keep an eye on it and see how it goes. If I get much blow-by in the next 1000km I may look at doing the 'sponge in the tube' method.

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Mine hasn't been anywhere near that bad yet, key word being yet. :D The worst I have seen so far is a little bit of oil on the matte black section underneath the radiator cover. This has cleaned off easily so far. My wife's Spyder does it more, as her oil level is almost to the full mark while mine is at the halfway point.

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Thanks for your reply, Michael! Yep, you have seen the oil in the same place as me. I will continue to check by peeking at the airbox seam behind the coolant tank, periodically, and if I see oil there, or on that black panel rear of the rad, they will be my indicators to clean out the airbox again, and maybe, just maybe do the sponge in the tube mod.






So, to my original question: does waiting warm-up for at least two bars affect/help (reduce) blow-by oil in the airbox?


Thanks again everyone!
Cheers.

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Originally Posted by HDXBONES

No, it's occurring after the engine is up to temperature, and operating at higher rpm's.....

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http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...g?t=1271157348

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Originally Posted by groundeffect

Thank you for your post. My blow-by oil was not too too bad, but there was enough oil in there for me to notice a drip on the rad and a drop blow from the fan on the right side cover/panel. I got in there and cleaned the airbox, no real problem. I try and keep a close eye on things, so I hope to catch things like this very quickly at the start.

Now, when I check my coolant levels, maybe once or twice a week - it only take 1 minute, I will check the front of the airbox - just get a garage lamp and peek in behind the coolant tank and inspect the seam where the airbox top meets the lower part. If no oil there, I'm good.

For at least another 1000km or so, I will be running stock. My oil level now is near the ADD mark, but still within spec, of course. I will keep an eye on it and see how it goes. If I get much blow-by in the next 1000km I may look at doing the 'sponge in the tube' method.







Thanks for your reply, Michael! Yep, you have seen the oil in the same place as me. I will continue to check by peeking at the airbox seam behind the coolant tank, periodically, and if I see oil there, or on that black panel rear of the rad, they will be my indicators to clean out the airbox again, and maybe, just maybe do the sponge in the tube mod.






So, to my original question: does waiting warm-up for at least two bars affect/help (reduce) blow-by oil in the airbox?


Thanks again everyone!
Cheers.

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It doesn't matter, warming up won't stop the blow by!
High RPM's pushes oil out the crankcase vent [tube] into the air box
then if left alone will drip out of the weep hole at the bottom of the air box [right side] and all over hot parts. Also makes a heck of a mess.
When the first PCV's were put in cars. To stop oil from getting into the air cleaner they just put a little piece of filter at the end of the vent tube.
Same idea as the foam in the tube.

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Originally Posted by Recluze

I tried the catch can thing and believe that it may be responsible for ALL of my gaskets giving out. I think there was something wrong with the bowl that I had. It leaked oil pretty badly and seemed to have a lot of back pressure on it when I blew through it. After having the bike in the shop five months to stop all of the oil leaks that it probably created I took it off.

I suggest that you leave it alone and just run your oil level lower which will stop most of it. I bought a 20 dollar oil pan and put it under the bike and that is how it is going to stay.

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Sorry for your problems... but I don't think a properly done catch-can would cause any gasket failures. Are you using the sponge now instead?

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Originally Posted by Firefly

Sorry for your problems... but I don't think a properly done catch-can would cause any gasket failures. Are you using the sponge now instead?

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:agree:

I am running it stock now with only low oil level to reduce blow by. This works well since I am not a high revving kind of guy.

While I used the parts list supplied by Lamonster to make my catch can, I believe that there was something defective in the bowl I used. First it leaked oil out of the bottom of the bowl so that provided no improvement. And it seemed to have a lot of back pressure on it when I would have expected none. I took it off as it was just adding complication to a problem without any benefit. I believe that putting back pressure on this blow by tube is NOT a good idea.

One other oil 'leak' I have just discovered and what caused me to buy the oil pan: When draining the oil some of it gets into this protective cover that is covering a small wire harness that runs through that area. The drained oil gets in this wire harness cover and then it will leak out of the split side of this cover. This is NOT an engine oil leak but it has the same effect on my garage floor. This is the point where I gave up and decided I was happier riding.

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Originally Posted by Some Guy

Not me...you need to be a plumber to figure mine out!!! :roflblack:

I ran a hose to the catch can and mounted the can to the oil cooler support bracket so I can get to it easily by removing the one panel. The output hose goes back to the air box so it's still EPA legal. :D

No more oil in the airbox.

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hi any pics of install??

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Originally Posted by ddtoit

hi any pics of install??

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I don't use a 'Catch Can'. They require maintenance and remove oil from the system. I prefer a modification to the crank case ventilation system. It's cheap, easy, and works fantastic!

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Originally Posted by BajaRon

I don't use a 'Catch Can'. They require maintenance and remove oil from the system. I prefer a modification to the crank case ventilation system. It's cheap, easy, and works fantastic!

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G'Mornin' Sir Ron;


If ye kindly could explain what I'm a-lookin' at here would be much appreciated!

That be a whole lotta gear clamps, son! I'm all fer adding chrome, but not that way :D

Lastly - on a new 1330, I'm to look fer spooge in the airbox to gauge whether or not I need to implement such measures?

Thankee!

Cheers
E

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Originally Posted by Entropy

G'Mornin' Sir Ron;


If ye kindly could explain what I'm a-lookin' at here would be much appreciated!

That be a whole lotta gear clamps, son! I'm all fer adding chrome, but not that way :D

Lastly - on a new 1330, I'm to look fer spooge in the airbox to gauge whether or not I need to implement such measures?

Thankee!

Cheers
E

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Until Ron chimes in …… I have the 1330 and imho this engine doesn't produce these oil vapors …. or it's taken care of by some means in the engine design …… Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

Until Ron chimes in …… I have the 1330 and imho this engine doesn't produce these oil vapors …. or it's taken care of by some means in the engine design …… Mike :ohyea:

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Howdy;

Thanks fer the reply.

Lookee like Sir Ron ain't gonna share, lol. Hence, I'm free to speculate. Looks to me like a clear cylinder stuffed with red foam filter media plumbed inline with the breather. That'd be fine if it weren't so danged exposed on an F3.

As it is, y'all might as well install an air/oil separator from Campbell-Hausfield parts at Walmart, if yer going fer that industrial emergency triage field repair look :joke:

What say you? This is a non-starter fer me.... I'll keep a Mark-1 eyeball on the airbox.

Cheers
E

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Howdy;

Thanks fer the reply.

Lookee like Sir Ron ain't gonna share, lol. Hence, I'm free to speculate. Looks to me like a clear cylinder stuffed with red foam filter media plumbed inline with the breather. That'd be fine if it weren't so danged exposed on an F3.

As it is, y'all might as well install an air/oil separator from Campbell-Hausfield parts at Walmart, if yer going fer that industrial emergency triage field repair look :joke:

What say you? This is a non-starter fer me.... I'll keep a Mark-1 eyeball on the airbox.

Cheers
E

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As Blueknight says, you're not going to need any modifications to keep oil out of the air box. This was a 998, V-Twin issue. They engineered the 1330 to where it is no longer a problem.

Things do change. And sometimes for the better!~

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Originally Posted by BajaRon

As Blueknight says, you're not going to need any modifications to keep oil out of the air box. This was a 998, V-Twin issue. They engineered the 1330 to where it is no longer a problem.

Things do change. And sometimes for the better!~

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Howdy & Thankee!

I reckon I kin return my separator and shiney new gear clamps to the store :D

Cheers
E

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Originally Posted by billybovine

Well another old thread, 2010, brought back from the dead. It also appears to be in the wrong forum. F3s did not exist in 2010. This thread needs to go back to the GS/RS forum where it likely started to begin with. Before another new user gets confused.

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Not a bad idea. Many see these mods as 'Generic', when actually, they are year and model specific. Resurrecting an old thread, though not necessarily a bad idea. Can run a greater risk of causing confusion.

Confusion definitely runs the gambit. I get customers all the time that heard from a fellow Spyder owner that Item 'A' is the ticket!. Problem being, that item does not apply to their vehicle or situation at all.

It has been mentioned ad nauseum how important it is to give specifics when asking a question or giving advise. But it mainly falls on deaf ears. It's just the way these forums work. So it is important for the reader to assure themselves that whatever they read actually applies, not only to their situation, but to their year and model vehicle.

I am convinced that no one here gives bad advise on purpose. But that doesn't mean you should not exercise due diligence.

A good example is the Original Poster who, for whatever reason, either installed a catch can incorrectly, used the wrong components or had defective parts. He created a big problem for himself. I understand that this may convince some not to do any modifications at all. This is a shame because, done correctly, modifications can make a world of difference in the enjoyment level. And, in the end, most mods are not that difficult to get right.

Have a Great Day out there everyone!