OK. Sounds like a prudent approach. I am trying to quantify why some have shifting issues and others do not. I'm not finding any pattern in this. I'm either missing something. Or, this is just a random issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin48
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OK. Sounds like a prudent approach. I am trying to quantify why some have shifting issues and others do not. I'm not finding any pattern in this. I'm either missing something. Or, this is just a random issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin48
oh, and thank you for the trans and oil filters, brake pads ,and plugs. always good
service !-irv
I just saw this thread and thought theres something I know about.I have been a transmission rebuilder for over 30 years.Heres my opinon as to why BRP says BUDS is needed.What is going on inside .When a shift is ordered by TCM a solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow into a piston that pushes the clutch into its disengaged position,then another solenoid moves the shifter arm to go up or down a gear or into reverse.After the gear position sensor confirms that the gear has changed another solenoid opens to allow fluid to flow to the other side of the piston causing the clutch to engage again, shift done,seems easy right but no so.The problem is that oil viscosity changes with temp and clutch friction levels change also and clutch thickness changes and gets thinner as the bike ages.The first automatic clutch I worked on was in VW Squareback wagon 1961 I think.It was a clunky quirky POS but it worked without a computer.Hydraulic control systems now use Pulse Width Modulated solenoids so that the TCM can control the speed that the fluid enters that piston chamber.They also use RPM sensors put in certain places so they can tell when full clutch lockup has occured or full disengagement has occured.They record the amount of time it takes for these events to happen and plug that info into a data table to get ready for the next shift.Now when you change that filter pockets of air get in the system,air compresses unlike fluid which instantly changes data in those tables which can react to the changes but not that quickly so it takes a few miles of shifting to bleed the air out which it is designed to do and get the data tables back to what they were before.The clunks/jerkiness that you sometimes feel is a result of TCM programming that isnt spot on,and that could be addressed by a computer flash update but this would cost BRP a lot and still would not fix the clunk into reverse or 1st when cold,that is caused by a problem where a heavy shaft is turning fast and simply does not have time to slow down to match the speed of gear its trying to go into.That would require a bit of redesign that I dont think they care that much about.As far as the filter goes some folks have it backwards,filters nowadays are very high quality usually 5 micron, large surface area dacron or polyester filters,whereas 50 years ago many so called filters were actually a brass screen which was a little tighter than a window screen.The reason for the change was bc old oil was thick,very thick when cold.The new oil is thin and stays thin at low temps.Also these control systems demand clean fluid.The reason why the dealer wants to reset your computer after a filter change besides making money is bc they can cycle the solenoids to get the data tables correct without actually causing any wear and tear,there is a real possibilty that if someone were to go out and "jump"on it during the first few shifts after a filter change they might cause a little wear on the clutch or get a hard clunk into a gear.When I had my shop we had scan tools to reset most cars but if we got an oddball we just drove it easy for a while and I never had a problem. IMHO,just change your filter if you can,check for leaks and take it easy on the initial test ride.If you beat on your bike and dont change the oil much you probably should change that filter at 28k,but if you go easy and change you eng oil filter when your told then maybe you can go a little longer on the trans.I like to save my work for the winter.
:agree: It isn't like BUDS does nothing on a HCM filter change. It just isn't necessary if you take a bit of prudent precaution. After any oil change (engine only or HCM) let the engine idle for 60 seconds or so before revving at all. You should do this anyway for any oil change. This allows oil to refill all the passages, expel any air, and bring oil pressure back to operating levels. Residual oil on moving parts is enough to protect the engine at low stress, idle, until the system is purged. It usually takes only about 5 seconds or so. 60 seconds is way overkill, but doesn't hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder01
As Spyder01 explains, restoring operational pressures and expelling air pockets is a bit more complicated with the hydraulic solenoids which control shifting on an SE model. I recommend shifting between 1st & Reverse a few times, sitting still before riding easy and shifting through all the gears. You're going to do it anyway, at some point. So, just go easy that first run to give everything a chance to purge the system.
As for mileage. If you do a decent job of maintaining and servicing your Spyder. It won't hurt to go a little farther than 28,000 miles on the HCM. But, for warranty reasons, I recommend changing it. This is one area where they could give you grief on a warranty issue. Just keep record of Date, Mileage and components used and you'll be fine.
Hello PW,
I'm about to replace my transmission filter. When you do a 1330 transmission filter replacement, is the gasket alone adequate to seal the cover plate against leaks? Or do I need to get some gasket sealer before I replace mine?
Regards, PatrickH
Hello AeroPilot,
You posting abt using a cross-pattern when tightening the SE6 transmission filter module-to-engine case reminded me that I don't even know what that torque is supposed to be. Do you know, by any chance?
Regards, PatrickH
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroPilot
Patrick, AeroPilot's post on page 2 of this thread about using that cross pattern was made way back in June 2019, so unless AeroP subscribed to this thread, you might never see a response from him. :dontknow: Similarly with your other request - it is a thread that started a while ago, so you really should check the dates on any posts you want to query/as questions of the poster. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickH
Sure, possibly someone else in the know might answer instead, but maybe you'd be better off sending AeroPilot a PM direct? (Include a link to this thread tho! ;) ) Worth a shot! :ohyea:
PatrickH -- first allow the gearbox to fully drain. Then remove the HCM filter Torx screws. Gently gently twist and pull the filter off. There shouldn't be much oil but a couple of paper towels underneath would be good. Inspect the various gearbox openings and make sure you have collected all O-rings. Wipe things mostly dry. Put a bit of oil on the HCM O-ring but not the outer seal. Gently gently push the filter back in place. Hand tighten (no tool) all the Torx screws. Then in three stages cross-pattern tighten the screws. Three stages is the minimum -- you do not want to bend the housing of your $100 filter and crimp the outer seal. Final torque is 11Nm/97inlb (Service Manual Supplement page 246). I used a 1/4" digital torque wrench. I'll be doing mine for the second time this weekend because the oil was dark (but otherwise clean) when I bought the RT-S at 77K. The clutch looks fairly easy to replace but I just as soon as leave it for the next owner. Best wishes.
The seal on the filter is all that is needed. I have done 4 changes and never used any additional sealer. Never had a leak. It is a messy job so I lay a large piece of cardboard down to catch any oil that gets past my pan.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickH
Run the engine for a while to ensure mo leaks before putting the Tupperware back on - this also purges any air that maybe in the system.
Does anyone have pictures or link to a YouTube for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by PW2013STL
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I did mine at an oil/filter change a while back. Not a hard job. No BUDS. Just adds maybe 45 min to an hour to an oil change.
Lew L
Where is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew L
Is this it?
yes it is
Do you recall whether that is something that needs to be done at 28k? Or is it at 56k?Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy
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Hi Pete,
Yes that's it. Change it at an oil change as you have to drain the oil anyways. Metric ball head hex wrenches help. Get and old towel to put under the filter as you'll get another 1/4 to 1/2 cup of oil draining out. Tighten in steps with a criss cross pattern and NOT too tight. Inch pounds stated in the thread somewhere. BUDS not needed, just lit it warm up a minute as you check for leaks. Shift int 1st and Reverse, then drive off for a test ride.
Good info in this whole thread.
Lew
Utahpete here is a YouTube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWmuSaDdB4&t=3131s