Is your spyder shaking, start with the belt tensioner. Now on to Tires!

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

Let me add to PMK's list .... I do NOT think - ambient Temp. will have much if any effect on your belt.....Also I don't the drive belt could cause as much SHAKE as you are experiencing ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

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Several points of interest in what I posted. Based on what the person with the Spyder issue has already posted, those would be common items to rule out.

I agree I doubt the belt alone is responsible. He needs to find something that makes a change. He needs to isolate the source as chassis or powerplant / gearbox.

The belt, if vibrating might, and I say might be inducing a secondary vibration / shake. Changing belt tension to rule it out is not difficult and can show quickly if it is a concern or not.

So I do agree, if he truly has a shake and not vibration, I doubt it is the belt. His description of the instrument panel shaking is very severe. Also, he states he has had the issue since new. Considering the parts he has changed, rechanged, balanced and rebalanced, plus says he has no apparent vibration when he places a foot on the front fender, makes it seem not chassis, but rather powerplant.

If it is powerplant / gearbox, that check is easy, same road, 60 mph in 6, make sure it shakes, then same road in 5. Does it still shake at the higher rpm. If it does, did the frequency change.

Truth told though, if it were me actually doing this work, and with the specialty tools / equipment I have, I would verify the tires are balanced correctly on my own balancer, and verify the front wheels are somewhat accurately aligned without doing another laser alignment unless needed. To generate the intensity of vibration this machine has, the mass of the object creating the shake / vibration is either multiplied by rotational speed, or simply has a large mass on its own.

But I agree, the belt is unlikely the source based on the description, but should be ruled out. It so much comes down to his accuracy in describing the problem.

While reading this it’s not clear to me what’s been checked regarding the rear tire, hub, bearings. From your descriptions you’ve done a lot with the fronts - but the rear? Surely sounds like a defective rear tire, cushions, or assembly process. Especially if it’s a shake vs. vibration. If only doing a static balancing of the rear tire it wouldn’t show a belt separation or similar defect.

PMK -- concur with your powertrain/gearbox which is why my first test was hand on engine, still no report back on that. My reasoning was the same as yours -- intensity and location. Possible causes: engine isolators, engine turnbuckle, and even balance shaft clocking.

PIBE -- on your way to the dealership this Saturday would you please perform the following four acceleration tests safely and report shaking intensity, frequency and location (especially at handlebars):

1. in 3rd gear accelerate smoothly from 45 to 60
2. in 4th gear accelerate smoothly from 45 to 60
3. in 5th gear accelerate smoothly from 45 to 60
4. in 6th gear accelerate smoothly from 45 to 60

The 6th gear test may be a bit tricky but I'm pretty sure the 1330 will pull with a light hand and level road.

As PMK said, we're looking for changes in intensity, frequency and location as engine and road speeds change.

I run the belts on our F3 models 140-160# on the Krikit without using a tensioner, with the wheel on the ground. A loaded suspension (i.e., wheel on the ground) will increase belt tension: once you know the difference, you can set it raised off the ground. Check the tension in multiple places around the belt length. Significant changes in tension reading would indicate a belt that local stretching (defective belt), or an out-of-round condition in the front drive sprocket or rear drive set up, both low probabilities. Mine usually run about 10# difference as I check multiple places around the belt. The belt tension should be checked mid-way between the two sprockets. I check multiple times at each location and take the average (gage R&R).

The dealership will check with a different device than the Krikit. Which may explain the difference in reading

Higher belt tension will create the harmonic, transient vibration sensation. I've had a drive sprocket go out on a 2018 F3-L, but that manifest at low speed. As you are stating vibration, mount an action POV/camera to watch the rear wheel. If it's that pronounced, you should be able to see the vibration. I've had front brake rotors and hubs that had runout but that only showed up during braking.

Well I'm new to the Spyder, but have done a fair bit of car and bike work over the years, your description reminds me of a similar issue I chased on a car some time back. What I found was front wheel bearings had issues, with one actually being bad and the other being very loose with very low preset torque on the wheel spindle / hub. Not sure that could be your problem, but the easy check is to lift the front wheel off the ground and putting one hand at the 12:00 position and the other at the 6:00 position, see if you have any movement pushing in/pulling outward. There should be none on a car and likely none on a Spyder front wheel....be sure not to rock it off the jack or jack stand, but push and pull pretty strongly... Regards

Ok... so, it's been a min... updating this thread. I worked with the local dealer's Spyder mechanic tweaking the various belt tensions. None solved the issue...

Today...I bought two 36mm 12 point wrenches from Menards https://www.menards.com/main/tools/h...8245253&ipos=1 to do my own belt work now for either side of the axle...however, these wrenches do not bite/hold tight...seems like it will strip the nuts with too much play. Common sense tells me this is not normal...but, these Spyders have surprised me many-a-times...so...thoughts on the wrench?

I am going to try adjusting the belt a few more times and tie up the belt tensioner...and a few tips/suggestions from fellow ryders.

FYI...reminder...I have a 2021 F3 Ltd. Not sure if the year makes a difference for bolt/nut sizes...I say this because my bike does NOT have a cotter pin in the right side of the axle as shown in videos I've seen. Dealer says they do not know why...new to them when there's not even an opposite hole for a cotter pin to go through...thoughts on this cotter pin thing as well?

Reiterate and add Questions
1. Should the 36mm 12 point wrench be loose? I know we all have diff definitions of loose...just too much play.
2. Should there be a cotter pin on the right hand side / brake side of the rear axle nut?
3. Are ya'll testing belt tension while it's cold or hot?

HI BayoumanPIBE.

I bought a new 2017 RTL and from the get go it had lots of issues and co-incidentally vibration and wandering were some of the symptoms I was having. Unfortunately for me the dealership was the cause of some, others part failure, others ditching the OEM gear like you. I'll list them here in case something gels

• Kenda OEM tyres
• Rear Top Shock mount incorrectly assembled, and incorrect top mount tension
• Left Front Tie rod/Ball joint failed
• Belt harmonics
• Poor wheel aligmnent
• Aftermarket shocks front and rear
• Belt Dampener
• front drive sprockets x 4

Because of all of these and other problems I was at the point of cutting my loses and getting out of Spyders.

Talking to others who I discussed their issues with:

• incorrect tension on front upper and lower Arms mount points in front suspension
• loose engine mounts
• Incorrect tension/loose lateral supports
• rear wheel out of round (not sure about the finer details of this one)
• loose steering head

By the sounds of your report, you've been thorough, but for the sake of completeness, there are some stretches of road where something in the road surface causes my RTL to vibrate like hell. Some are country highways, some are Freeways.

I was very lucky that the warranty covered many of my issues especially when it took a month for the dealership to diagnose (front tire rod - because the computer told the service manager everything is fine ). If its 'doable' maybe its worth considering removing all the aftermarket gear and refitting the OEM stuff, taking it to the dealership (or a better one as I did) and standing your ground on getting BRP to get it sorted.

Hello BayuomanPIBE,

If you can't resolve your shaking issues when you adjust your belt, I would try to get an appointment with Lamont since you are about 3 hours away. I realize this is not a short trip, but with lack of support from your dealer I would visit (and trust) him if you can.

I travel 2 hours to another dealer that I trust compared to my local dealer that is 20 minutes away.

Also, Did the dealer give you your stock parts in case you have to reinstall them to resolve this issue? I don't think will need to, but you never know.

Good Luck

@askitee - D@mn...referring to your lists. I'm about to that point...it sucks. This is my 2nd and maybe my last Spyder...but, then no more wind therapy. My 2014 ST-S was pristine and awesome with several aftermarket parts. I don't have the time and money to dive much further into this issue especially when the orig dealer is out of town...that's why I paid so much $$ to have others do the work I cannot.

Reiterating because of so many posts and help topics I've read and posted to...and I forget. But, all custom and aftermarket parts were added during the initial build out of the crate. Part of the deal on top of trade-in was the dealer keeps the parts, and I get a discount on labor, etc.. I WILL NEVER do that again. So, no one rode it stock. And, the dealer did not have the OEM parts when I went back to them so they could put things back on to see if it's aftermarket or OEM screwing up things. It was raining the day I picked her up and trailered her home...the next day is when I noticed the shaking. This happens on all road types...even the smoothest.

BRP called (a min back) stating they were closing my ticket. Said the dealer had it fixed w/video of the handle bars shaking normally..I said no, not at highway speeds...BRP said since it has so many aftermarket parts and the dealer did all which was within their power, there's nothing more they (BRP & dealer) wil do...closed my ticket...never heard from either party again.

NOTE: I am NOT trying to bash anyone, even though I have ever right. I'm only stating the facts as they happened and how I feel.

Never have I been so disappointed with a very high dollar and very personal and custom purchase to myself. I've got a few more planned attempts before I make any decisions of keeping her or not...going to try what I can shortly.

Thanks for your time...and of course all SpyderLovers.

@YIRYDE - I have not tried Lamont...not sure why I did not. I've driven that distance many times since day 1. I'm willing again. Also, I posted some more info 4:33pm CST...neither I nor the dealer has the OEM parts...

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Originally Posted by bayoumanPIBE

@YIRYDE - I have not tried Lamont...not sure why I did not. I've driven that distance many times since day 1. I'm willing again. Also, I posted some more info 4:33pm CST...neither I nor the dealer has the OEM parts...

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I read your post and it's too bad you don't have the parts. I would trailer it to Lamont, someone with extensive Spyder knowledge to see if he can resolve your issue before you give up on something you enjoy.

Best of luck to you

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Originally Posted by bayoumanPIBE

@YIRYDE - I have not tried Lamont...not sure why I did not. I've driven that distance many times since day 1. I'm willing again. Also, I posted some more info 4:33pm CST...neither I nor the dealer has the OEM parts...

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" Vibrations" & " Shaking " are far apart in how they feel and what could cause either. Vibes are minor, Shaking is major ... I don't believe ANY of your Mods are causing this issue. Good luck ...Peter and Ron have given very good advice ..... Mike :thumbup:

bayoumanPIBE, I just scanned through this entire thread. Have you very closely examined the physical condition of the belt and pulleys? I had a shaking problem similar to yours on my 2014 RTS. Swapping the front tires side to side didn't solve it. Then one day I noticed a pebble jammed in the teeth of the rear sprocket. Took it out and the shaking went away. Look to see if there is some defect in the teeth of the belt, or in the teeth of either sprocket. Maybe there's something there causing the shake.

Try to find a used good belt, so you don't have to buy a new one, to replace yours to see if that makes a difference. Maybe the rear pulley is distorted. When you checked the tension of the belt did you do it multiple times with the wheel turned 1/3 revolution each time? If not, do that and see if the tension stays constant. If it varies a lot then something is wacky.

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Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

bayoumanPIBE ...Maybe the rear pulley is distorted. When you checked the tension of the belt did you do it multiple times with the wheel turned 1/3 revolution each time? If not, do that and see if the tension stays constant. If it varies a lot then something is wacky.

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Depending on how (rotational position) the rear pulley is fitted to the hub, high/low tension readings can vary +/- 0# or +/- 20# on my RT. When it's correct (+/- 0#) there's no vibration; when it's wrong (+/- 20#) belt tension doesn't matter and it vibration is horrendous. I position the pulley in the cush drive slots to minimize the radial runout of the pulley.

@IdahoMtnSpyder - I have not personally adjusted the belt tension yet...bought 2 new 36mm 12pt wrenches to help and there seems to be too much play as if I will strip the axle ends. I'm not sure if this is normal for Spyders. I don't have any other large wrenches to try diff sizes. I'll need to ryde her up to home depot or the like to see if I can find something which fits better.

OK..positive note. I raised the belt tensioner tying it to the frame, and the bike rode a lot smoother...still shaking some...but, it's a ton closer. I've also been tweaking the front shocks (Kings), and it seems to have helped as well. I did not want to come back to the house...I was having the best tine riding...smoothest she's ever been! LOL

BUT, I now have that infamous harmonic vibrations under me with the belt tensioner not resting on the belt.

So, the belt tensioner is to help with harmonics, but using the tensioner (even at factory belt lbs), shakes the bike like a donkey with dt's.

The belt is at 180lbs.

I'm going to have the rear tire checked for balance as soon as I can...so much has been done to the poor thing, I can't remember if anyone checked the rear...

So, until then, I'm not sure where to go if the rear is fine...thoughts?

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Originally Posted by bayoumanPIBE

@IdahoMtnSpyder - I have not personally adjusted the belt tension yet...bought 2 new 36mm 12pt wrenches to help and there seems to be too much play as if I will strip the axle ends. I'm not sure if this is normal for Spyders. I don't have any other large wrenches to try diff sizes. I'll need to ryde her up to home depot or the like to see if I can find something which fits better.

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I have never seen or heard of a 12 point WRENCH !!!! .... and the axle Nuts are 36mm - period...... Mike :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

I have never seen or heard of a 12 point WRENCH !!!! .... and the axle Nuts are 36mm - period...... Mike :thumbup:

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I always considered box end wrenches to be wrenches! And they do come that big! And most are 12 point. Do we just have different definitions about what constitutes "wrench"?

Actually, I think what happened is you "wrenched" your brain thinking about what defines "wrench"! :roflblack: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrench

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Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

I always considered box end wrenches to be wrenches! And they do come that big! And most are 12 point. Do we just have different definitions about what constitutes "wrench"?

Actually, I think what happened is you "wrenched" your brain thinking about what defines "wrench"! :roflblack: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrench

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:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Yep you got me on this one IMS ..... Earlier today I was using some " wrenches " and they were double ended open wrenches .... It su*ks getting old :banghead:........ Mike :thumbup:

Ya'll help make this community even more fun...needed that... :)

Update...so, I exaggerated some on the 'much less shaking now'...must've been worn out last night testing this thing...

Today's tests after work...belt tensioner is still tied up off the belt. Rides better, but still shaking way beyond what's close to normal highway shaking on various pavements...variation of speeds...still about 60mph is when it starts, gets worse up until about 83mph and then friggin' thing begins to smooth out more at 85.

1. jacked up the bike and manipulated the wheels. They do not move in and out, but there is a rubbing sound when the wheels free spin and they both slow down as if the brakes are on slightly. Does the parking brake do this...? Not sure if that has to do with the shaking, but it's something I've not heard before on my '14 ST-S. I'm not sure if I've paid attn to these wheels for such sounds. This is noticeable. Is this normal? Listen to the video.

Turn up your volume...doesn't have to be loud to notice it. https://youtu.be/f6rioexm-SE

2. I tweaked the shocks several times and tested it for a while, can tell a difference within the middle range of clicks stiffening.

3. I took off my large Madstad windshield because it flops in the wind more than I like...worth a shot...it helped some...was shocked. But, the shaking of the bike is bad enough possibly it manipulated the aero on the front end making it flop more...

4. But, both of 2 & 3 together seemed to help more...but, still too much shaking.

5. I took off the zip ties from around the belt tensioner and put it on the belt. It made it the shaking much worse...so, I tied it back up. Now, I'm back to 2 & 3...

I just can't her dialed in...going to get the rear tire balanced asap and adjust the belt from 140 to whatever brp recommends (have to look it up). Reminder...currently belt is at 180lbs.

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Originally Posted by bayoumanPIBE

Ya'll help make this community even more fun...needed that... :)

Update...so, I exaggerated some on the 'much less shaking now'...must've been worn out last night testing this thing...

Today's tests after work...belt tensioner is still tied up off the belt. Rides better, but still shaking way beyond what's close to normal highway shaking on various pavements...variation of speeds...still about 60mph is when it starts, gets worse up until about 83mph and then friggin' thing begins to smooth out more at 85.

1. jacked up the bike and manipulated the wheels. They do not move in and out, but there is a rubbing sound when the wheels free spin and they both slow down as if the brakes are on slightly. Does the parking brake do this...? Not sure if that has to do with the shaking, but it's something I've not heard before on my '14 ST-S. I'm not sure if I've paid attn to these wheels for such sounds. This is noticeable. Is this normal? Listen to the video.

Turn up your volume...doesn't have to be loud to notice it. https://youtu.be/f6rioexm-SE

2. I tweaked the shocks several times and tested it for a while, can tell a difference within the middle range of clicks stiffening.

3. I took off my large Madstad windshield because it flops in the wind more than I like...worth a shot...it helped some...was shocked. But, the shaking of the bike is bad enough possibly it manipulated the aero on the front end making it flop more...

4. But, both of 2 & 3 together seemed to help more...but, still too much shaking.

5. I took off the zip ties from around the belt tensioner and put it on the belt. It made it the shaking much worse...so, I tied it back up. Now, I'm back to 2 & 3...

I just can't her dialed in...going to get the rear tire balanced asap and adjust the belt from 140 to whatever brp recommends (have to look it up). Reminder...currently belt is at 180lbs.

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" Then it smooths out " ...... I can't think of a way that this is possible .... JMHO .... I wish all the best on this, but you have the weirdest Spyder I have ever heard about .... Mike :thumbup:

You replaced the front tires, but not the rear. Right? Have you examined the rear tire closely? Maybe there's a broken belt, or a separated belt, in it. Or maybe it was simply molded incorrectly. It is a Kenda, right? I really think the shaking is coming from the drive system somewhere. I can't imagine how there would be a defect in the drive belt, but maybe....... Or as Peter mentioned, maybe the pulley is not correctly seated in the rear wheel. Have you had the drive pulley off of the rear tire? Sorry if you've already said so but I just don't remember what all you have written so far. If one of the rubber blocks is installed incorrectly, or is missing, I can see how that would upset the system.

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

" Then it smooths out " ...... I can't think of a way that this is possible .... JMHO .... I wish all the best on this, but you have the weirdest Spyder I have ever heard about .... Mike :thumbup:

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Yes. Yes, I do.

Dear diary,

I've got an appt Thurs w/a local Spyder dealer to check out the rear wheel balance and setup.

I still have the belt tensioner tied up for now (off the belt). I rode for a bit yesterday tweaking the shocks, got her to where I would tolerate the shaking and try to enjoy the ride...went well, but the shaking is still bad.

Today...wind was a-blowing (for you Ron White fans)...mid-west blowing. And, when I got on the highway, I thought I was going to pull a Dorthy about to lift off the ground when that wind hit this big 24" Madstad windshield of mine shaking and wobbling so bad I thought the dash was about to rip off. Not exaggerating just know how to describe things. I had to put my head down low and take the nearest exit.

Hear me out...I'm no scientist, but a theory I thunk up concerning the windshield. Yes...the windshield could be a factor or the entire friggin' cause. Aero can do some crazy things...remember how ole' Dale learned himself about drafting. It could be screwing up my setup just enough...maybe.

Ok, head's spinning...I mean, several upgrades replaced stock items as she was being uncrated and built at the dealership. Reminder, due to this method, no one even knows if she was messed up from before even being factory crated. Those aftermarket items which affect just the aero and ride alone include the windshield, shocks, front wheels and tires, powder coated sway bar and belt tensioner. I was told the powder coated rear sprocket would not cause any issues or affect handling...true? Any one or combination of those could be the cause.

So, concerning the windshield...I have tested different angling and heights, and it does help when needed, but I keep having to adjust it, and it does shake more 'abnormally' at higher speeds regardless of position. I assumed the bike shaking was screwing up the windshield's aero. Also, over 80+ the bike seems to smooth noticeably including the windshield which could be the magic number for almost perfect aero (**mainly on decent wind riding days)...but today, the shaking began about about 40mph as getting up to speed about to merge on the highway...at 60mph, bike's dash became violent. This theory could also explain why, when I tweak the shocks (just so I can tolerate things), I have to change them again the next day making me think I'm crazy. An earlier posting of mine in this thread, I mentioned how when I tied up the belt tensioner she rode and felt a lot better, but the next day it was worse and I blamed it on me being tired. Also, now I think about it...I've put my feet on both front fenders on several types of roads at various speeds and gears to see how bad they moved thinking maybe they were the culprit...but, I barely feel them move...even though very impressive, the dash is somehow shaking through to me, my back, butt and legs and foot pegs in such an odd way it's hard to pin point exactly where it starts. However, the belt tensioner being tied up helping the problem somewhat kinda wrinkles things though.

Another bummer is I can't test this windshield theory without finding someone willing to remove theirs along with the brackets...unless I buy one. Priced a stock windshield lately? They're not cheap. Guess I might as well...I already have 2 brand new sets of front tires from all this...why not 2 windshields.

We'll see.

IMHO ... I seriously doubt the Madstad windshield is the issue ...I don't recall ever reading about causing this problem .... . way back in 09 I put a very large Gold Wing windshield ( which was larger than the yours ) on my 08 GS..( others here on the Forum have seen , like Deanna777 and Adrianne also " rnet " ..... I had to mount it " old style " .... ie. a separate frame attached to the handlebar tree.... I rode that bike up to 100+ mph and also in violent high wind thunderstorms .... and it never Created any shaking or wobbling .... This thread is getting quite long, so it's difficult to remember everything you have checked ... at this point I'd be very, very surprised if your front wheels are really balanced .... JMHO ... good luck .... Mike :thumbup: