2012 RS 17K miles Brake Failure message

Ok so, I'm getting the infamous Brake Failure message scrolling across my screen even though the brakes appear to work just fine (but I can't get my vehicle inspection and tags with this message coming on!).

So, the fluid reservoir is full both chambers to the very top of the lips, and I've tried pulling the sensors out from under both chambers to no effect, and I've tried just completely disconnecting the sensors still to no effect! The message starts scrolling within 20 seconds of starting this Spyder before I'm even sitting on it yet (much less have released my parking brake or stepped on the brake peddle even once). My brakes feel fine, I can see plenty of pads still left on the calipers, and the ABS engages properly when I brake hard on my dirt driveway. No it's never had it's brakes bled or fluid changed, at barely over 17K it's a baby still IMHO and there has been no reason since the brakes appear to work just fine!

So, what else can be triggering this alert if it's not fluid reservoir related? Any other brake system sensors I can disconnect to see if they are what's tripping this alert?

Do brake failure warnings trigger any computer codes that can be retrieved? ps. I'm also getting an O2 sensor code at idle mostly, check engine comes on as soon as I give it some throttle then goes off as I'm riding at >20mph or so then comes back on when I sit idling again so I'm perplexed (though I don't believe they can be related... these 2 issues are preventing me from getting my tags renewed right now so I'm frustrated ya know?).

Thanks!



- Michael

And do my floats look right to you? I could have sworn they were once centered in the cap holes they look off to me but I may be imagining it IDK. :-\

- Michael

Hi Michael,
The floats look about right to me. I try to change my brake fluid according to the maintenance schedule which is every 2 years. If the fluid has never been changed, I'm wondering if that might contribute to or possibly cause your brake problem. The O2 sensor could be bad or on its way out if its not sending a signal within range of what the ECU is looking for. I had mine fail on me a couple of years ago. I think there is a way to check it with a volt meter, but someone else with more experience should advise you. I hope this helps out in some way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael211_2000

And do my floats look right to you? I could have sworn they were once centered in the cap holes they look off to me but I may be imagining it IDK. :-\

- Michael

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I pulled that image from the manual. Does your brake fluid come up to "Max"? I can't seem to tell if it is. If not, that could be part of the issue. Oh, check your brake lights. Make sure they work. If I remember correctly, I had a burned out brake bulb throw a code...

I'm going to go ahead flush and bleed it in the next week or so I guess.... I was keeping up with yearly maintenance on it up till 2016, then in 2017 a new giant subdivision next to my neighborhood started flooding my home every time it comes a hard rainfall (4 times in the house in the last 2 1/2 years) and I've just not had time or energy to do maintenance on much of anything and have only been using my pickup truck.

Probably run some B12 thru the engine and then if O2 sensor still keeps throwing the code I'll get a fresh one of those, too. That's just insulting though, they should last a lot longer than 17K miles! CanAm needs to do better than this! Just saying. :-(

Thanks.

- Michael

As i posted, it cannot hold another drop in either chamber they are both full to the top of the lip where the caps screw on! It's literally dripping over the edge with caps off, the floats will NOT go up any higher than they are either and they're submerged in the fluid already. The fluid is perfectly clear, in the reservoir at least. Removing the sensors had NO effect either, so it's NOT the fluid level in the reservoir.

I know Spyders have the ability to apply the brakes themselves via the VSS system (stability control system) and that must be pressurizing the brakes upon startup and sensing the fluid is compressing too much... that's just a guess though. I can't tell it at my right foot it feels fine to me and I cannot press the pedal down far enough to hit that 2nd low pressure switch no matter how hard I stand on it so.... :-\

I guess I should go ahead and flush the coolant too while I'm flushing things on this bike. Arghhh! Maybe I'll be able to ride it by summer 2021, who knows? LOL!

- Michael

Before getting too deep into this, read the following:

Brake Warning Reset Procedure
If you do not have any codes, but still have a brake warning, it is possible the low pressure switch has been activated. There are three switches in the brake circuit. 1. Brake light switch, 2. Hydraulic pressure switch, and 3. Low pressure switch (this is really a limit switch that just senses the pedal has traveled too far). This can be reset by the following procedure.

After a low pressure switch (LPS) problem has
been solved, it is necessary to clear the occurred
fault in the VCM as follows:
1. Turn ignition switch OFF.
2. Wait 30 seconds.
3. Turn ignition switch ON.
4. Press the brake pedal, you should hear two clicks.
NOTE: The 1st click will come from the brake light
switch. Continue to strongly press the brake pedal to hear
a 2nd click. This one will come from the low pressure
switch. You may not hear the click, just push the pedal real hard.
5. Turn ignition switch OFF.
6. Wait 30 seconds.
7. Turn ignition switch ON.
8. Validate fault was cleared.
What caused the condition in the first place? This has happened to me a couple of times. When the parking brake is ON and your foot is on the brake pedal, then you release the parking brake, you will feel the brake pedal go down an additional amount. If it goes down far enough to activate the 3rd switch, that is when you get the brake failure message. Now I'm just careful of the pressure I put on the brake pedal when I release the parking brake. No more problems.

Thanks Grandpot but this does nothing for me. My pedal is firm, I've said multiple times now I can stand on it and still not get to the second "click". Absolutely nothing caused this condition, unless you count sitting parked under my carport while my home flooded, and again, and again, and again last September... luckily my car port slab is located in a much higher part of my yard so the water there was never more than 3 inches deep, but it's been knee deep multiple times inside my home now.

- Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael211_2000

As i posted, it cannot hold another drop in either chamber they are both full to the top of the lip where the caps screw on! It's literally dripping over the edge with caps off, the floats will NOT go up any higher than they are either and they're submerged in the fluid already. The fluid is perfectly clear, in the reservoir at least. Removing the sensors had NO effect either, so it's NOT the fluid level in the reservoir.
.......
- Michael

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Probably not the final resolution for your brake problems, but those floats should NOT be submerged & trapped under the plastic anywhere Michael! :lecturef_smilie: It looks/sounds like you might need to get a clean probe of some sort and carefully push the floats down enough to free them so that you can carefully guide them out from where they're trapped under the edge of the filler neck, and let them get back to floating free on the surface of the fluid in the middle of the filler neck area! :thumbup:

And when you put the caps back on those fillers, make sure the raised ridge on the cap is facing the correct direction iaw your manual - if they aren't facing the right way, your master cyls won't be sealed &/or venting properly & you can get some spurious messages as well as make a mess with spilled brake fluid under the seat! :shocked:

Good Luck. :cheers:

Thanks but I learned about the cap vents many years ago... still, might help others who are new to Spyder's to learn about those darn vents and how they can leak fluid if put on wrong. Bad design that, IMHO.

I believe the floats are correct actually, pulling the sensors out from beneath the reservoir (to insure they couldn't sense a low float position) made no difference. Also been looking at YouTube videos about Spyder RS brake problems and other RS(S) Spyders have their floats in same odd offset spot. Plus finally, I did use a clean screwdriver and tried to re-position them but they only go down and then pop back up in same spot, so must be made this way.

So no joy here!

- Michael

I'm sure you've already checked this but on mine I eventually spotted I had a small split in the rubber seal on one of the caps. It wasn't obvious it was only while I was checking the level for the umptieth time I noticed it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael211_2000

Thanks Grandpot but this does nothing for me. My pedal is firm, I've said multiple times now I can stand on it and still not get to the second "click". Absolutely nothing caused this condition, unless you count sitting parked under my carport while my home flooded, and again, and again, and again last September... luckily my car port slab is located in a much higher part of my yard so the water there was never more than 3 inches deep, but it's been knee deep multiple times inside my home now.

- Michael

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So sorry to hear about your home being flooded. I hope you get the brake problem fixed.

Hi Michael,
Any luck with the brakes?

I'm waiting on a single-user motorcycle brake bleeder kit to arrive in the mail....should have it Monday. Will work on this issue just as soon as I can after I get it!

Using the Spyder as-is right now, the brakes do still work fine after all. Check Engine light for O2 sensor decided to come back on again after having gone away for a few shorter rides... I guess I'm at least going to pull that sensor out and try cleaning it before I break down and order a new one. Seems ridiculous with so few miles on it for that to have gone bad though! But oh well, whatever makes the CanAm Nanny happy I guess.

Trust me I will post back the resolution or lack there-of.

- Michael

The single-user motorcycle brake bleeder worked very well (I've been busy dealing with other stuff since it came in, just got to use it this weekend finally). Fluid that came out doesn't look nearly as bad as some I've seen on Youtube videos, but I guess Nanny liked the flush job because I just did a 20 mile round trip this evening and finally NO BRAKE FAILURE MESSAGE! Yay!

I also took the O2 sensor out of the exhaust and cleaned it, but it really wasn't very dirty very little crud came out of it. I also found the connector for it up under the back end and unplugged/re-plugged it a few times. But the P0130 code returned during my test run this evening, so I guess something has gone irrevocably wrong with the O2 sensor; going to have to get another one. Grrrrrr! Win some, lose some. :-\

What's weird to me is that none of this stuff was going on when I had last ridden it before Hurricane Harvey and then had to park it for 2 1/2 years while working on my house (which was ruined again during TS imelda last September, I give up since I cannot begin to fix this place fast enough and FEMA granted homeowner's nothing but peanut shells to work with!). Anyways.... thanks guys.

- Michael

So bought a used O2 sensor off Ebay, it arrived and I replaced my bad O2 sensor.... no more Check Engine light, after several good rides in the past few days there's not been a peep out of Nanny. It's so nice to be able to ride again without "Brake Failure!" and "Check Engine!" messages constantly scrolling across the screen! (Sigh! Contentment!)

Regards ya'll!

- Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michael211_2000

So bought a used O2 sensor off Ebay, it arrived and I replaced my bad O2 sensor.... no more Check Engine light, after several good rides in the past few days there's not been a peep out of Nanny. It's so nice to be able to ride again without "Brake Failure!" and "Check Engine!" messages constantly scrolling across the screen! (Sigh! Contentment!)

Regards ya'll!

- Michael

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Woohoo!
See you on the road sometime!

Incredible! Check Engine light came back on yesterday evening on a ride home from New Caney TX.... now it's P0520, the oil pressure sending unit (sensor)! Geez! Suddenly feels like my Spyder is falling apart on me here... :gaah:

Bad Mojo!

- Michael

So sorry to hear that. I hope things start going your way! Sending you some Good Mojo! :thumbup:

Well, after having the Check Engine light and warning message on for that 14 mile ride that evening, it's not done it again. I've taken it on several trips of 40 miles or more without this happening again. So, weird!

Thanks for the Good Mojo, I guess it worked! LOL!

- Michael