What's happening with Front sprockets on the 2020 and up Spyders?

I know there are recalls on some 2015-2019 RT and F3 based machines. The issue seems to be scattered all over the place. Some have trouble at lower milage and some have no trouble at 30k plus miles. When talking to the dealerships they say they are doing temporary fixes until the final fix is done.
My question is, what is this final fix, and was it incorporated into the 2020 and up spyders? I had the pulley replaced on my 2016 F3T at around 26k miles (under warranty). The dealership said the pulley was the white one and that the coating was to do away with the noise that was present on some models. He blamed the pulley failures on factory installation more than the actual pulley itself. So has anyone here had issues with their pulley on 2020 and up RT or F3 series bikes? They are very easy to check and I was wondering if the red dust was present on any of them yet. Also, has anyone who had their pulley replaced with the white pulley had any failures or issues with the replacement?

I got my 2020 RTL that March and have had the side panels off many times; the only dust I've seen is road dust.

This is my front pulley after just over 9000 miles.

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Originally Posted by Flamewinger

This is my front pulley after just over 9000 miles.

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What is leaving that mark on your belt? Can you feel it with your fingernail?
Something looks off to me.

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Originally Posted by K80Shooter

What is leaving that mark on your belt? Can you feel it with your fingernail?
Something looks off to me.

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I thought that when I first saw it too. My thought was maybe a belt tensioner was going out. But it might just be the way the belt looks in the picture.

On mine, that's where the belt tensioner rides.

The final fix is that they are installing drive shafts. system:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

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Originally Posted by Ex-Rocket

The final fix is that they are installing drive shafts. system:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

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I would love the reliability of it, but would be concerned about the rear wheel power loss. At only 115 hp, I don't want anything less.

Dealer told me of a new improved white front pulley for my 2020 RTL, so I had one installed at my 30,000 km service. I kept my stock front pulley and glad I did as I was towed in on a flat deck at 55,000 km when the front pulley stripped out after normal driving habits, nothing nuts. My tech says the stock pulley is built better than the white pulley. I asked and got a warranty replacement for the stripped white pulley; BRP gave me another white pulley even though my parts guy ordered the standard stock number - they only supply the white pulley now. Hope I don't need another one. I now have 63000 km and smooth sailing so far.

I thought the current pulley was a silver one.

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Originally Posted by RTL1330

Dealer told me of a new improved white front pulley for my 2020 RTL, so I had one installed at my 30,000 km service. I kept my stock front pulley and glad I did as I was towed in on a flat deck at 55,000 km when the front pulley stripped out after normal driving habits, nothing nuts. My tech says the stock pulley is built better than the white pulley. I asked and got a warranty replacement for the stripped white pulley; BRP gave me another white pulley even though my parts guy ordered the standard stock number - they only supply the white pulley now. Hope I don't need another one. I now have 63000 km and smooth sailing so far.

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Originally Posted by rjinaz86323

I thought the current pulley was a silver one.

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The local 'in the know/in-house' guru guy here in Oz who will only speak on the basis of anonimity has told me that the White pulleys are essentially EXACTLY the same construction as the 2014 & on earlier pulleys with the addition of the White ceramic coating - a ceramic coating that was added purely to reduce the whistling noise the pulleys were making after the air flow around/thru the tupperware was changed with the model upgrade. :sour:

And according to him also, the 'Final Fix' pulley for the 'Red Dust Recall' pre-2020 Spyders identified by VIN as being part of that Recall is again essentially the same as the earlier 2014 & on pulleys AND the White Ceramic Coated pulleys except for the addition of:

• a little extra machining (for the washer seat ;) );
• the Washer itself;
• a slightly different bolt;
• a different coloured Ceramic Coating (Silver) to clearly differentiate them from all the others; AND
• the Locktite (appropriately cured! ;) ) used to bond the Silver Pulleys onto the Engine Output Shaft!

:shocked:

So it appears that if you want the latest & greatest pulley for your Spyders, then:

• 2014 & on (if identified as being part of the Recall) thru to pre-2020, it's the Silver Recall version with the Washer & cured Locktite;
• post 2020 it's the White Ceramic Coated pulley without the Washer....

Only as many owners suspected would occur, there's a growing number of reports from owners having issues with the White Ceramic Coated pulleys failing along the same lines as the 'Red Dust Recall' pulleys that were failing thru fretting over time! :banghead:


All of which makes it fairly clear that the Locktite, appropriately cured before use, is a MAJOR contributor to the 'Final Fix' for the 'Red Dust Recall' Pulleys!! And without that Locktite & appropriate curing time on ANY 2014 & on front sprocket/pulley, you can expect it to fret and eventually fail to provide drive! :rolleyes:

For whatever it's worth, Just Sayin' :gaah:

It's times like this I am glad I ride old iron!!!

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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen

The local 'in the know/in-house' guru guy here in Oz who will only speak on the basis of anonimity has told me that the White pulleys are essentially EXACTLY the same construction as the 2014 & on earlier pulleys with the addition of the White ceramic coating - a ceramic coating that was added purely to reduce the whistling noise the pulleys were making after the air flow around/thru the tupperware was changed with the model upgrade. :sour:

And according to him also, the 'Final Fix' pulley for the 'Red Dust Recall' pre-2020 Spyders identified by VIN as being part of that Recall is again essentially the same as the earlier 2014 & on pulleys AND the White Ceramic Coated pulleys except for the addition of:

• a little extra machining (for the washer seat ;) );
• the Washer itself;
• a slightly different bolt;
• a different coloured Ceramic Coating (Silver) to clearly differentiate them from all the others; AND
• the Locktite (appropriately cured! ;) ) used to bond the Silver Pulleys onto the Engine Output Shaft!

:shocked:

So it appears that if you want the latest & greatest pulley for your Spyders, then:

• 2014 & on (if identified as being part of the Recall) thru to pre-2020, it's the Silver Recall version with the Washer & cured Locktite;
• post 2020 it's the White Ceramic Coated pulley without the Washer....

Only as many owners suspected would occur, there's a growing number of reports from owners having issues with the White Ceramic Coated pulleys failing along the same lines as the 'Red Dust Recall' pulleys that were failing thru fretting over time! :banghead:


All of which makes it fairly clear that the Locktite, appropriately cured before use, is a MAJOR contributor to the 'Final Fix' for the 'Red Dust Recall' Pulleys!! And without that Locktite & appropriate curing time on ANY 2014 & on front sprocket/pulley, you can expect it to fret and eventually fail to provide drive! :rolleyes:

For whatever it's worth, Just Sayin' :gaah:

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Unfortunately, your anonymous source appears to have supplied you incorrect information. As Mike, the blue knight 911 and many other owners of model year 2014 Spyder RT series have stated, the pulleys on our 2014 machines have not worn.
The pulley wear began with the 2015 models, so there is an apparent change of something from 2014 which had few issues to successive years that are plagued with problems.

If no change was made by BRP, the trends of no wear should have remained as they are for 2014 models.

Regarding the white pulley, if I recall correctly, these were deemed an interim pulley until the final fix pulley, mandated by the USA NHTSA recall has been completed.

The Silver pulley, machined to a narrower width at the spline engagements, accommodates a spacer to increase the surface area of contact pressure between the step of the gearbox output shaft and the face of the Silver pulley. This increased surface area lessens the likelihood of inadequate ability of the pulley face to prevent wear from the gearbox output shafts smaller diameter stepped area.

Regarding fretting, many years ago, I linked articles in regards to fretting corrosion as the main concern of the wear. The articles, clearly explained in layman's words, methods of fretting prevention.
Utilization of liquid shim products, such as Loctite products are one option. However, as I mentioned years ago, correct prep prior to use of the liquid shim is imperative, along with proper curing of the liquid shim. Additionally, while liquid shim is an excellent product when properly used, any premature breakdown of the shim will result in repeated failure.

The basis for my comments years ago, regarding fretting are fact based from years working as an aircraft structures technician, that has dealt with all forms of corrosion, including fretting corrosion for many decades, and a decade as an instructor for aircraft technicians for corrosion control and repair.

In regards to our own Spyder, and other owners I have discussed pulley longevity with, we have opted not to utilize the liquid shim method for adhesive bonding the pulley to the output shaft, but rather found a properly lubricated spline interface, reinspected at reasonable intervals, with lubricant replenished as we do on spline drives used in aircraft systems, to be a reasonable and long lasting alternative.
Kluberpaste was the BRP lubricant applied during assembly, and specified in maintenance manuals. Unfortunately, the Kluberpaste specs are inadequate for the intended task.

All the best to everyone contending with these issues. With luck BRP has resolved the issues for you.

I don't believe I've been supplied with incorrect info PMK. Did you read the '2014 & on if identified as part of the Recall' (which was done by VIN) bit in my post?? :dontknow: As per the various bulletins & Recall Notices, only those Spyders built from some time in 2014 & identified by VIN were subject to the Recall, and none of the 2014 owners with still good pulleys that you cite have Spyders that were 'identified by their VIN as being part of the Recall', so of course their pulleys haven't worn. ;)

And No, you are wrong about the White Ceramic Coated Pulleys - those White Pulleys were around for some time before the Recall with its Interim Fix hit the streets; and the White Pulleys were never specifically included in that 'Interim Fix' for the 'Red Dust Recall', altho that may have occurred in some instances; the White Pulleys were always intended as the fix for the 'Whistling noise' that many complained about once the newer models with less tupperware arrived well before the Recall ever came out. ;)

If you actually go back and read the earlier threads about all this in date order, you should be able to see for yourself that this is the case, as has been confirmed by my source here in Oz and quite a few others since. :thumbup:

But it certainly does confirm that you were correct way back when you first raised fretting corrosion as being the issue - and that's been further evidenced by the growing number of White Pulley failures where they've either been installed without either the proper preparation &/or allowing sufficient time for the curing of any Locktite or similar (when used). :2thumbs:

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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen

I don't believe I've been supplied with incorrect info PMK. Did you read the '2014 & on if identified as part of the Recall' (which was done by VIN) bit in my post?? :dontknow: As per the various bulletins & Recall Notices, only those Spyders built from some time in 2014 & identified by VIN were subject to the Recall, and none of the 2014 owners with still good pulleys that you cite have Spyders that were 'identified by their VIN as being part of the Recall', so of course their pulleys haven't worn. ;)

And No, you are wrong about the White Ceramic Coated Pulleys - those White Pulleys were around for some time before the Recall with its Interim Fix hit the streets; and the White Pulleys were never specifically included in that 'Interim Fix' for the 'Red Dust Recall', altho that may have occurred in some instances; the White Pulleys were always intended as the fix for the 'Whistling noise' that many complained about once the newer models with less tupperware arrived well before the Recall ever came out. ;)

If you actually go back and read the earlier threads about all this in date order, you should be able to see for yourself that this is the case, as has been confirmed by my source here in Oz and quite a few others since. :thumbup:

But it certainly does confirm that you were correct way back when you first raised fretting corrosion as being the issue - and that's been further evidenced by the growing number of White Pulley failures where they've either been installed without either the proper preparation &/or allowing sufficient time for the curing of any Locktite or similar (when used). :2thumbs:

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No plans nor intentions to debate the pulley timeline with you. It can be whatever you prefer to present to the audience.

If I recall correctly, prior to the final pulley version, pulleys that failed the spline wear check had the failed pulleys removed, white pulleys were utilized as the interim to keep owners riding until the silver pulley version was released.

Possibly I am totally incorrect, but believe that was the process, although, as stated, I will not debate that and accept being incorrect if I am.

I can state with confidence that they white pulley was used as a replacement on my 2016 F3T before the recall was made. In fact, they replaced it again once the final recall was issued with the new grey pulley. As for failures, my current dealership had done more 2008-2012 pulley fixes before the recall was issued, than 2015-2019 models. I was told that the issue with all the pulleys that they did were due to installation. The had none come back to them after doing their fix, no matter which pulley they installed.

Just to muddy the waters a little more. I took my 2018 F3L in for the recall. They tested/measured it for movement and determined it was bad. NO RED DUST THOUGH. They replaced the original pulley with a new white one during the recall period. Once the new final fix was available they replaced the white one with the new silver one with the washer and and bolt. During this whole time I made several long multiday trips with no noise or vibration or anything else out of the ordinary. I could not tell any difference. Did they finally resolve the issue? I have no idea. Not sure if they know either.