2014 RTL SE6 what could cause these Headlight system issues ?

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01-07-2018, 12:15 PM
teninospyder

2014 RTL SE6 what could cause these Headlight system issues ?

Need someone's help in understanding what is "possibly" happening here, and how to know for sure....then how to fix. Here is what I know :

1. First noticed yesterday that when I started the Spyder, the right front headlamp appeared to be in "high beam" condition, with no light at all in the left light.
2. Tried the hi/lo switch, and the switch would not stay in the lo beam position but the shutter sound (which I actually had never heard before and didn't even know about) appeared, and the right light seemed to show both beams trying to be on for an instant.
3. Pulled both fuses and tried one at a time, but no light from either side unless both fuses were in.

That's where I am right now. I'm tending to lean towards a bad rocker switch on the dash, but............not sure how to check further.
Would 1 burned out bulb cause this ??? Doesn't seem so, but with this setup, who knows....

From searching on this site for "headlight issues", I'm sure this isn't new to some of you. I have read about changing to LEDs and may do so while resolving this.

Any help appreciated.
01-07-2018, 12:40 PM
beefybudds

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Need someone's help in understanding what is "possibly" happening here, and how to know for sure....then how to fix. Here is what I know :

1. First noticed yesterday that when I started the Spyder, the right front headlamp appeared to be in "high beam" condition, with no light at all in the left light.
2. Tried the hi/lo switch, and the switch would not stay in the lo beam position but the shutter sound (which I actually had never heard before and didn't even know about) appeared, and the right light seemed to show both beams trying to be on for an instant.
3. Pulled both fuses and tried one at a time, but no light from either side unless both fuses were in.

That's where I am right now. I'm tending to lean towards a bad rocker switch on the dash, but............not sure how to check further.
Would 1 burned out bulb cause this ??? Doesn't seem so, but with this setup, who knows....

From searching on this site for "headlight issues", I'm sure this isn't new to some of you. I have read about changing to LEDs and may do so while resolving this.
I do believe that 1 burnt out bulb makes the working bulb turn into high mode to compensate for the burnt out bulb.
My reason for this is when I upgraded my headlights to led ones I tested one of the new installed leds and it only work in high mode. When I installed the other side everything went back to normal.
Just my 2cents
Joel

Any help appreciated.

I do believe that 1 burnt out bulb makes the working bulb turn into high mode to compensate for the burnt out bulb.
My reason for this is when I upgraded my headlights to led ones I tested one of the new installed leds and it only work in high mode. When I installed the other side everything went back to normal.
Just my 2cents
Joel
01-07-2018, 12:40 PM
billybovine

Power to the bulbs does not go through the hi/lo switch. So the switch cannot be the culprit for one bulb not coming on. Your Spyder has single filament bulbs that come on when the engine starts and first reaches idle speed. Hi/lo is controlled by shutters. So if the bulb is burnt out. Both hi and low will not work on one side. I would start there. If the hi/lo switch will not stay in position. That is a different problem and needs a different solution.
01-07-2018, 12:47 PM
billybovine

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefybudds

I do believe that 1 burnt out bulb makes the working bulb turn into high mode to compensate for the burnt out bulb.
My reason for this is when I upgraded my headlights to led ones I tested one of the new installed leds and it only work in high mode. When I installed the other side everything went back to normal.
Just my 2cents
Joel

I cannot explain your experience. But looking at the wiring diagram. There is no way for the headlight current to be monitored. So I don't think your theory is correct. Also I have not been in motor vehicle lighting in a lot of years. But when I was it would have been illegal to design a system that cannot be dimmed in some situations.
01-07-2018, 12:48 PM
Chupaca

Interesting....🤔

If the hi/lo switch is not operating properly i would start there. It will have to fixed anyway and may be causing some of the problem. :thumbup:
01-07-2018, 01:15 PM
UtahPete

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Need someone's help in understanding what is "possibly" happening here, and how to know for sure....then how to fix. Here is what I know

1. First noticed yesterday that when I started the Spyder, the right front headlamp appeared to be in "high beam" condition, with no light at all in the left light.
2. Tried the hi/lo switch, and the switch would not stay in the lo beam position but the shutter sound (which I actually had never heard before and didn't even know about) appeared, and the right light seemed to show both beams trying to be on for an instant.
3. Pulled both fuses and tried one at a time, but no light from either side unless both fuses were in.

That's where I am right now. I'm tending to lean towards a bad rocker switch on the dash, but............not sure how to check further.
Would 1 burned out bulb cause this ??? Doesn't seem so, but with this setup, who knows....

Your bike uses halogen bulbs, and they do burn out. So, replace that one first.
While you've got the tupperware off, remove the headlight assembly with the iffy shutter and pull off the back piece to expose the shutter and bulb. It's possible the shutter mechanism is being interfered with by one of the wires in there. Or, the shutter is bad (not likely if you're hearing the shutter mechanism but possible). With the headlight assembly removed and the back piece removed, you can hook up the wires and have someone hit the hi/lo switch while you watch what is going on.
01-07-2018, 02:27 PM
beefybudds

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybovine

I cannot explain your experience. But looking at the wiring diagram. There is no way for the headlight current to be monitored. So I don't think your theory is correct. Also I have not been in motor vehicle lighting in a lot of years. But when I was it would have been illegal to design a system that cannot be dimmed in some situations.

I can't explain it other than what happened to me when I only had one headlight plugged in. It would stay in high beam. I thought I did something wrong but as soon as I installed the second light everything went back to normal.
01-07-2018, 02:36 PM
SpyderAnn01

Beefy is correct if only one bulb is plugged in the high/low beam does not work. The OP has a burned out bulb and it is pretty easy to change. Now would be a good time to go to LED. www.tricled.com
01-08-2018, 11:08 AM
billybovine

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01

Beefy is correct if only one bulb is plugged in the high/low beam does not work. The OP has a burned out bulb and it is pretty easy to change. Now would be a good time to go to LED. www.tricled.com

I agree it's a burnt out bulb.

Looked at the wiring diagram again. I don't see how a burnt out bulb will affect the shutters. If someone can actually explain it. That would be great. No guesses.
01-08-2018, 11:49 AM
teninospyder

Thanks to all for comments

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Need someone's help in understanding what is "possibly" happening here, and how to know for sure....then how to fix. Here is what I know :

1. First noticed yesterday that when I started the Spyder, the right front headlamp appeared to be in "high beam" condition, with no light at all in the left light.
2. Tried the hi/lo switch, and the switch would not stay in the lo beam position but the shutter sound (which I actually had never heard before and didn't even know about) appeared, and the right light seemed to show both beams trying to be on for an instant.
3. Pulled both fuses and tried one at a time, but no light from either side unless both fuses were in.

That's where I am right now. I'm tending to lean towards a bad rocker switch on the dash, but............not sure how to check further.
Would 1 burned out bulb cause this ??? Doesn't seem so, but with this setup, who knows....

From searching on this site for "headlight issues", I'm sure this isn't new to some of you. I have read about changing to LEDs and may do so while resolving this.

Any help appreciated.

Really appreciate all the input so far. anything others have or more that people think of, please add. Thanks again to all.
01-08-2018, 03:16 PM
BRPcare

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Really appreciate all the input so far. anything others have or more that people think of, please add. Thanks again to all.

Hello @teninospyder, We are so sorry to hear about your challenges. Please send us your VIN number and contact information to brp.care@brp.com and we will have a specialist reach out to you. Stephanie - BRPcare
01-08-2018, 03:31 PM
SpyderAnn01

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybovine

I agree it's a burnt out bulb.

Looked at the wiring diagram again. I don't see how a burnt out bulb will affect the shutters. If someone can actually explain it. That would be great. No guesses.

I sure clarify that if only one headlight is plugged in it will affect how the other operates. I don’t know why but I have first hand knowledge that it does.
01-10-2018, 12:59 AM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chupaca

If the hi/lo switch is not operating properly i would start there. It will have to fixed anyway and may be causing some of the problem. :thumbup:

The OP needs to make sure he wasn't pushing it to the 'flash' mode. There are three positions of the switch, hi, low, flash. Flash mode is momentary.
01-10-2018, 09:34 AM
UtahPete

teninospyder, have you implemented any of these suggestions? it would be nice to get some feedback from you. Thanks.
01-10-2018, 09:36 AM
Easy Rider

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybovine

If the hi/lo switch will not stay in position. That is a different problem and needs a different solution.

In addition, that switch has TWO "high" positions: Center is normal, low beam. Push one way for continuous high beam, push the other for momentary high beam (flash to pass). What he is seeing with the switch is likely normal.
01-10-2018, 11:21 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01

I sure clarify that if only one headlight is plugged in it will affect how the other operates. I don’t know why but I have first hand knowledge that it does.

I finally remembered what the deal is and why you are 1/2 correct! The connector on the left headlight harness has a jumper on it that keeps the low beam relay energized. When you disconnect the headlight the bulb will not be powered when you turn on high beam since it's a single filament bulb and the power to it is on the low beam circuit only.

If you disconnect the right headlight nothing changes with the high/low beam operation.
01-10-2018, 11:25 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Need someone's help in understanding what is "possibly" happening here, and how to know for sure....then how to fix. Here is what I know :

1. First noticed yesterday that when I started the Spyder, the right front headlamp appeared to be in "high beam" condition, with no light at all in the left light.
2. Tried the hi/lo switch, and the switch would not stay in the lo beam position but the shutter sound (which I actually had never heard before and didn't even know about) appeared, and the right light seemed to show both beams trying to be on for an instant.
3. Pulled both fuses and tried one at a time, but no light from either side unless both fuses were in.

That's where I am right now. I'm tending to lean towards a bad rocker switch on the dash, but............not sure how to check further.
Would 1 burned out bulb cause this ??? Doesn't seem so, but with this setup, who knows....

From searching on this site for "headlight issues", I'm sure this isn't new to some of you. I have read about changing to LEDs and may do so while resolving this.

Any help appreciated.

After all the discussion above and remembering how the headlights are wired, I'm inclined to think you have a broken wire or separated connector going to the left headlight and so the low beam relay, and thus the single filament bulb, is not being powered when you switch to high beam.
01-11-2018, 01:21 PM
teninospyder

thanks about my headlight issues - status right now

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahPete

teninospyder, have you implemented any of these suggestions? it would be nice to get some feedback from you. Thanks.

Sorry I haven't updated the status of my work on this issue. I was really going to....when I had it resolved. Some of these new comments of mine may surprise you.....based on different issues we all face with these things. Other comments I have here won't surprise some of you at all.

First off, I have taken everyone's comments and knowledge about this into my little, getting older by the hour brain, and am currently waiting for my new TricLED headlights to be delivered (maybe even today !).

I have "a lot of hope" from what all of you have provided (and by watching videos about the bulb replacement process), that my issues are REALLY only caused by a burned out left bulb and my own stupidity about the light switch operation. The last few comments I read this AM....about what the light switch does......is probably my whole problem other than the burned out bulb. I admitted before that I didn't know anything about the shutter system being on this Spyder, nor apparently did I know that the "lower position" on the rocker switch was for "flashing for pass". I never had to use it, that I know of, and as I said above I admit to not remembering everything I read in the past from the manuals and elsewhere about all the "gadgets, options, processes, etc," we have at our disposal on a Spyder. No excuses people....just a fact of life for me lately......you should watch me looking for keys or my cell phone !!! :-))

Anyway, I will update after I put in the new bulbs, I promise. Now for my one disappointing comment here.

Along the way in the posting process I received (you can read it) one from BRPCares saying they were sorry to hear of my issues and if I would forward my VIN and contact info they would have a tech get in touch with me and try to help. I sent the info, including my write-up from this forum. The next day I received an email from someone at BRP suggesting only that I take it to a dealer for a diagnosis of the problem. This is a 2014 Spyder RTL, which is obviously out of "factory" warranty. When I queried back whether or not this would be "free", the answer was NO. Unless it was found to be a warranty issue I would have to pay for the dealer check. That is the extent of the entire conversation to me from BRPCARES.

Now, what did I expect? I expected per the original post they made to me at this forum that I would receive a call from a tech that could help me understand how this system worked, and what could cause what I was seeing. That's all. Appears that may have been too much to expect.

I WILL update all on the outcome after the bulb swap. Thanks for listening.
01-11-2018, 08:52 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

Now, what did I expect? I expected per the original post they made to me at this forum that I would receive a call from a tech that could help me understand how this system worked, and what could cause what I was seeing. That's all. Appears that may have been too much to expect.

Other than with rare exception BRP factory staff do not converse directly with owners. Actually, I was a bit surprised to see the BRPCares post for your issue. But it does show that BRP does monitor this forum. I'm sure they make notes about problems and issues that owners encounter. In due time that probably influences future production changes and design.
01-12-2018, 06:42 AM
Little Blue

BRP Upgrades

Maybe 'Father BRP' Could listen to TIPS on this Forum and UPGRADE THE SPYDER . :spyder: :chat: MY 2
01-12-2018, 05:09 PM
teninospyder

OK, Got bulbs replaced and here are the results

As promised in my last post....which I won't copy into here to save you time.

After being very careful for about 3.5 hours (because this is "really" my first body parts removal/replacement project), I now have the new TricLED headlights in and they appear....as everyone that has done this knows.....very white and very bright !! Absolutely no disappointment in them. Following are project summary comments for you:

1. The status of the OEM bulbs I removed after 3.5 years - 1 had a broken filament (the left hand bulb), and the remaining 1 was cloudy white on the inside (probably ready to go).
2. Everything about the lights AND the Light switch now works as it should. High beam, low beam, flashing capability. To me it is obvious that 1 burned out headlight can affect the overall operation of the remaining light and the switch.
3. Body parts and replacement "not too bad", except had trouble getting the mirrors back on until I looked at youtube again :-))
4. Kinda side comment.....I did find 1 of the right side panel grommets missing, and I will get a replacement because I noticed the panel does flex a little there. Also found another one disfigured somehow, like the panel tried to push it out. I'm sure you know what I mean, but it came back to shape after sitting a few minutes.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU WHO PROVIDED INPUT ON THIS !! While I "probably" would have done it without your comments, I'm sure I would have been far more afraid along the way :-))
01-12-2018, 06:59 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by teninospyder

3. Body parts and replacement "not too bad", except had trouble getting the mirrors back on until I looked at youtube again :-))
4. Kinda side comment.....I did find 1 of the right side panel grommets missing, and I will get a replacement because I noticed the panel does flex a little there. Also found another one disfigured somehow, like the panel tried to push it out. I'm sure you know what I mean, but it came back to shape after sitting a few minutes.

Get a set of Magic Mirror magnetic mounts and have them at the ready for when you need to take the mirrors off again. One of best functional only farkles you can install! :thumbup:

If you didn't do it, be sure to use something like windex to wet the grommets next time. Makes it much easier to push the panels on and then dries so the grommets don't stay slick. Did you look around for the missing grommet? It might have been caught somewhere behind the tupperware. Happened to me a time or two. Also, one of the best recommendations here is to put a tether on those side panels. Once in a rare while one will come off while traveling. The consequences are usually not good. If you install the Baker Air Wings they serve the same purpose.

Still scratching my head over how a burned out filament can cause the problems you encountered. It just does not make any sense at all, according to the wiring diagram, how a burned out filament will do anything other than make that headlight go off.