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It doesn't stop from the nut coming loose. One would need a Castellated(Castle) nut for that.
Does it stop the the axle from sliding out?
Does it stop from losing the nut as well?
I would have thought if the nut came loose one would notice when riding? Does anyone have any experience here?
Eckhard
As you are technically correct, a castle nut will stop the nut from loosing to much from the torque spec.
But the cotter pin will still stop a nut from loosing past the pin regardless, as it may go past the torque spec, the pin is still going to stop it.
Id image after a long long long period of time, the pin will probably wear away enough for it to snap/disintegrate for the nut to completely fall off & thus the axle possibly coming out.
Does it stop the axle from sliding out?
Yes
Does it stop from losing the nut as well?
Yes
I would have thought if the nut came loose one would notice when riding? Does anyone have any experience here?
I wouldn't bet on it. Been riding and wrenching for a lot of years and nothing I see or hear will surprise me anymore. You would think two people riding a fully loaded Goldwing would know they only have 15 lbs. of pressure in their tires, BUT THEY DON'T. You would think some riders would know the brake pads are shot and have been cutting into the discs for the last thousand miles or more, BUT THEY DON'T. I could go on for an hour. Personally I would like to see the castle nut set up, but I will take what we have. It only works if you keep a pin in though. I have seen many bikes where it was just left out.
I must have been lucky... I removed it when I put my hitch on and would leave it off when the hitch was off for over 4 years and never noticed a difference.
The cotter pin is pretty much a CYA to prevent disaster if the axle nut should come lose. Properly installed there is no need for the cotter pin.
Axle's without cotter pins is a big fat NO for me.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaRon
Just about every nut on an aircraft has a wire twist lock on it so things don't go bad at 100 MPH at 10,000 ft. A cotter pin in an axle nut serves the same function so nothing goes bad at 60 MPH at 4 ft. If things were to go bad in either situation the results could be the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG
I do not advocate NOT using the cotter pin. Just saying that it would have to be be a pretty negligent install to ever actually need the cotter pin. The pin is a fail safe for an un-tightened axle nut than for anything else. I put mine back in and I did the work myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogs
My 2015 F3 does Not use a Cotter pin.
No axle cotter pin on mine. I have a hitch and the hitch bolt has a cotter pin. I don't think the hitch would fit if there were a cotter pin in the axle.
Sorry, but that is not correct. In aviation / aerospace many fasteners are simply locknuts with no safety at all. However on modern aircraft, flight controls have double safeties, such as self locking castle nuts that are cotter keyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2dogs
As for safety wire, yes, still used, but not often on newer aircraft, plus with the new style cable safty setup, that is becoming more common.
[QUOTE=PMK;1411048]Sorry, but that is not correct. In aviation / aerospace many fasteners are simply locknuts with no safety at all.
That has been my experience when I was involved in building aircraft. (737s and 747s) But that was more than a few years ago..... I understand that today they use more composites and glues..... Jim
True, but the hitch also captures the axel nut so it cannot come off. The cotter pin on the hitch bolt prevents the hitch bolt from sliding out.Quote:
Originally Posted by canamjhb
My 2015 F3 does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge707
I ditched the cotter pin, now use a safety pin. No tools needed.
As for why they use a cotter pin and no castle nut. Maybe there is some regulation regarding it must be saftied to prevent the axle from coming out. Granted it may loosen in theory, but could never fall out.
Yes, people are sometimes dumb and oblivious to what goes on around them. It happens.
Not the same application but same principle, but I drilled a hole and use a cotter pin on the stud of my hitch ball. I decided I better do that after I found the hitch ball nut had worked loose and was close to coming off. That was while I was pulling my trailer on the Interstate!
It does what it was designed to do. But, I would not want to be the guy who did not put it in and an accident occurs that it would have prevented....:lecturef_smilie:
The reason they do not use a castle nut is for simplified engineering. If they used a castle nut, it would be so tall that the BRP hitch would not fit and you would not be able to install the cotter pin in the BRP hitch. BRP wants to sell you the hitch and hopefully an overpriced trailer, and keep the design simple. A low profile axle nut makes the design and installation of the hitch much easier and simplified. It does this and is still able to provide a safety factor to prevent the rear axle from falling out if the nut comes loose.
Maybe, but more likely they use a plain nut to save time and cost. Castle nuts cost more to purchase. Add in tnat during assembly, they simply tighten the axle to specs then slip in the cotter key. No alignment of the nut to the axles drilled hole. Simple, fast and low cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel The Biker
If the plain nut was installed to facilitate a hitch as the primary reason behind using the plain nut, most likely Can Am would supply the nut in the hitch kit. Besides, when the hitch is installed, you can no longer safety the axle as you do without the hitch. The long hitch bolt passes through the axles length, that bolt does have a castle nut and is saftied.
Regardless of their reasoning: having it doesn't hurt anything, and it might just help an awful lot (If things go sideways!) nojoke
Like I said. For simplified engineering. I disagree with your second statement about them supplying a plain nut with the hitch kit. That would mean they would have to keep 3 different nuts on hand. A castle nut for the axle, castle nut for the hitch, and plain nut for the axle when hitch installed. Plus it would mean nut removal, nut installation, re-torquing, and setting belt tension everytime the hitch is installed or removed. Simplicity is the key.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK
You are the genius in these matters. Therefore whatever you say regarding your nuts I will abide by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel The Biker
Thanks for the input guys. My final thoughts on the matter are
This is the first time I have seen the use of a cotter pin with a plain nut. Usually I see a castle nut or a washer that bears against the cotterpin in a relatively loose assembly..
It seems to me that the cotter pin is there only to prevent the loss of the components and not assure the security of the assembly.
I will continue to use the cotter pin or replace it with a hairpin type clip which is reusable because that is what Can Am intended and because Can Am parts are not cheap or readily available, i.e lost nut. Cotter pins though are cheap and readily available.
Happy New Year All!!
Eckhard
We regularly check the belt when doing an alignment. We have found 18’s with no cotter pin. As a result, we put a new one in. Cheap insurance and piece of mind. Any Home Depot has them. Ride safe!
We regularly check the belt when doing an alignment. We have found 18’s with no cotter pin. As a result, we put a new one in. Cheap insurance and piece of mind. Any Home Depot has them. Ride safe!
Our 2015 RTS SE6 Special Series has a tow hitch with a castle nut and a cotter pin. We bought it used last Nov. :thumbup:
My trailer hitch was installed by the dealer before I took delivery of a new 2018 RT-L. I removed it for the first time the other day getting the Spyder ready for a rear tire swap. Much to my surprise not only was there no cotter pin, but the axle nut and washer were missing! After 8,000 miles, apparently the only thing securing the rear wheel was the trailer hitch. Metric nuts that size are not easy to find. Found one finally at a hardware specialty store. The dealer then installed the correct nut and washer.
Another thing I found interesting is the cotter pin hole. It is drilled through only one side of the hollow axle shaft. I couldn't run a cotter pin all the way through if I wanted to. If I decide to run without the trailer hitch and feel that the cotter pin is necessary, I'll probably drill through the other side. Anyone else out there have a similar occurrence?
My 2018 RTL has no cotter pin from the factory. In fact, it has only one side drilled where the cotter pin is supposed to go. I have considered finishing the drill job and installing one. Anyone else seen this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by amkrat
Interestingly, the parts diagram for the 2018 does not show a cotter pin like the older years do. It's either an oversight during the design of the 2018 or BRP decided it's not needed. The parts diagram for the 2019 doesn't show a cotter pin either. 2017 & earlier show the cotter pin. The axle part number has remained the same though. This is a question for BRPCare to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by h0gr1der
Something is fishy. Since the part number is the same the axle should be the same which means it should be drilled all the way through. If the axle was intentionally changed to eliminate the cotter pin then the part # should have been changed.
I suggest you both make sure the dealer is aware of this, AND that they report it to BRP. Ask to see the answer from BRP.
Not on the Spyder, but the same principal..............
I got a custom axle for a springer front end and it came with fancy chrome acorn nuts. I took the acorn nuts off and put castle nuts on it, then drilled the axle for cotter pins. Not as purdy as the chrome acorn nuts, but I feel better riding it. It was kind of surprising how easy it was to drill the axle.
http://www.tanwater.com/pics/rocker-wheel%20(6).jpg