2021 RTL Heated Seat Electrical Schematic Question

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05-29-2021, 09:30 AM
eschmid2

2 Attachment(s)

2021 RTL Heated Seat Electrical Schematic Question

I am troubleshooting my passenger heated seat cycling off after 10 min and looking at the schematic there is a symbol in the heating element to ground I can’t figure out what it is and hoping someone can help. It looks like a capital I with 2 dots on each side.

• I •

Wondering if it’s some kind of heat regulating switch?? Any help appreciated or feedback from others who may have had the seat issue fixed. I see mention of the same issue on forum but no resolution. Thanks!

Added 7:36 PM PST May 29: Below is more of the circuit for information

Updated 18-June-2021: FINALLY HAVE AN ANSWER !!

After many back and forth's with BRP they finally came back with an answer: "the symbol in the picture is the thermostat, which controls seat heat distribution. Open circuit at 47c and cools to 34c before closing the circuit and the seat becomes active."

So now I can at least troubleshoot the situation and understand exactly how it is supposed to work.
05-29-2021, 05:50 PM
bluewoo

Maybe a HI LO switch or a plug/connector?
Do you have a picture of the schematic itself?
05-29-2021, 06:48 PM
Jetfixer

Seeing as how that symbol shows up in the ground line of the seat element, I'd say it represents an isolated ground. This would be to prevent a "ground loop", which would cause a whining noise from the alternator to be heard in the audio system. But that's just my guess!
05-29-2021, 09:40 PM
eschmid2

Thanks for your thoughts and idea so far ... I added more to the original post and its not the switches for HIGH and LOW , I will have to chase down the isolated ground theory, more research but at least a path! I will post when this is figured out so please keep the ideas coming !
05-30-2021, 06:24 AM
Jetfixer

Or maybe trying to represent a thermal overload circuit breaker?
05-30-2021, 06:38 AM
Doc McCoy

It is a contact switch. Looks like two pole switch. Why it's there I don't know but that is definately the symbol for a two pole switch
05-30-2021, 08:09 AM
Snowbelt Spyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc McCoy

It is a contact switch. Looks like two pole switch. Why it's there I don't know but that is definately the symbol for a two pole switch

Agreed. It seems to be a variation on the symbol for a pushbutton switch, as though it can be operated from both ends. Although the device itself may not be used in exactly that context in this application. Not really the symbol for a thermal switch. But, when the contacts are closed, all it does it complete the electrical circuit to ground and allow the heater elements to energize and operate. It's located inside the passenger seat. So, does the seat need to have weight on it, i.e. "occupied", for the heaters to come on?
05-30-2021, 09:57 PM
eschmid2

All, thanks for your feedback so far, it seems the most likely answer is for this to be a normally open switch that can be closed from 2 directions - perhaps this is the component flaking out causing my seat to cycle off after a period of time. So over the next few days I will test to see if heat comes on with and without weight to verify this is a weight activated switch. I also do not think its a thermal switch as the passenger handrail heater circuit looks identical but without the "switch" so heat control such as a thermister or equivalent does not appear in the circuit diagram. Once I confirm what the switch is a will have to take the cover off the seat and figure it out from there. Again thanks for all your help so far! I will continue to post my findings.
05-31-2021, 06:08 AM
JIM W

My wife is complaining about the same problem with our 2020
06-01-2021, 09:58 PM
DanDanTMM

1 Attachment(s)

I agree that it looks like a Push to Make switch drawn incorrectly. I have not tried the heat option on the passenger seat of my 2021 RTL without someone sitting in it to know if it needs pressure to activate it.
06-01-2021, 11:56 PM
Joel The Biker

Yes the rear seat heat only works with someone sitting on it. It also shuts off automatically when the bike is turned off and the switch needs to be cycled again to turn it back on. Same for the rider seat.
06-05-2021, 08:56 PM
eschmid2

Well for me the investigation continues ... today I did the test where I started the bike without sitting on either seat and let it sit there in idle while I turned on both heated seats the driver grips and passenger rails. In a short time all 4 started to heat up. I checked the temperature of the seats grips and rails with an infrared temp gun so not to put any pressure on the seats. By far the driver grips got the hottest the fastest and stayed that way. I called BRP and they said they would inquire with their engineering about the component in my original post. With 6-7 weeks backlog at the dealer still going to try and solve the heat shutting off in the seats issue myself. I will continue to post updates and thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences!
06-09-2021, 09:15 PM
eschmid2

Another update - so I went back and forth with BRP and they finally agreed to do some research to identify the component in the original post that is in question. Today I got the following response "I reached out to my colleague and after a bit of research we don't think it is normal that the heated seat shuts off. We highly recommend having a dealership look at it since we cannot troubleshoot over emails or phone." So folks, we may never get the answer from BRP about the component. Short of taking the seat cover off and dissecting the heated pad I do not think I can do much more with this other than make an appointment at the dealer to check it out. I do think I might take my Fireboard BBQ temperature monitor and tape it to the passenger seat , put some weight on it and take a temperature profile to see whats happening. Anyways , perhaps too much time on my hands!!
06-18-2021, 08:59 PM
eschmid2

All, FINALLY HAVE AN ANSWER !!

After many back and forth's with BRP they finally came back with an answer: "the symbol in the picture is the thermostat, which controls seat heat distribution. Open circuit at 47c and cools to 34c before closing the circuit and the seat becomes active."

So now I can at least troubleshoot the situation and understand exactly how it is supposed to work.

Also Posted the answer in the original post at top of thread. Good times! :2thumbs:
07-05-2021, 09:03 PM
eschmid2

3 Attachment(s)

All, I have received an additional communication directly form BRP engineering with more detail and several pics. Very awesome to get this kind of detail from BRP! Here it is:

To answer your question, this situation you are describing is perfectly normal. In fact, the mystery component is actually a thermostat built into the heating seat (see picture 1). This works independently of the state in which the vehicle is (engine running or not) as well as of the switch (stop / level 1 / level 2). For your information, here is the seat electrical schematic and the thermostat operating temperature specifications (see picture 2 and 3). In short, when the temperature of the seat / heating element reaches 43C the circuit is then opened so that everything can cool down to avoid overheating. The circuit will then close only when the temperature drops below the 34C mark. It should be noted that this kind of electronic component (bimetal thermostat) can have a certain variability which may explain why the two seats (front VS passenger) do not stop heating at the same time, even if they use the same circuit.

Hope this helps others understand more details on the heated seat circuit and behavior. again many thanks to BRP engineering!
09-07-2022, 02:31 PM
Mbv6988

Not satisfied

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschmid2

All, I have received an additional communication directly form BRP engineering with more detail and several pics. Very awesome to get this kind of detail from BRP! Here it is:

To answer your question, this situation you are describing is perfectly normal. In fact, the mystery component is actually a thermostat built into the heating seat (see picture 1). This works independently of the state in which the vehicle is (engine running or not) as well as of the switch (stop / level 1 / level 2). For your information, here is the seat electrical schematic and the thermostat operating temperature specifications (see picture 2 and 3). In short, when the temperature of the seat / heating element reaches 43C the circuit is then opened so that everything can cool down to avoid overheating. The circuit will then close only when the temperature drops below the 34C mark. It should be noted that this kind of electronic component (bimetal thermostat) can have a certain variability which may explain why the two seats (front VS passenger) do not stop heating at the same time, even if they use the same circuit.

Hope this helps others understand more details on the heated seat circuit and behavior. again many thanks to BRP engineering!

So that all sounds great to know how it works, but I think it’s still not acceptable. My wife and I are used to having a constant level, high or low, of heat output like our other vehicles. We’re not fans of the high setting that just shuts off and stays off for too long. Maybe our 2022 RTL seat isn’t working correctly? I can leave my house in the morning with it on High, it will heat up good for about 10 minutes, then shuts down and it never comes on again before I get to work which is about 25 minutes total commute. I have recently complained about this to BRP and my dealer and am waiting for a response. If no OEM solution, I may go to an aftermarket heated seat.
09-07-2022, 03:50 PM
K80Shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbv6988

I can leave my house in the morning with it on High, it will heat up good for about 10 minutes, then shuts down and it never comes on again before I get to work which is about 25 minutes total commute.

My 2020 does not do this. They could have changed things, but they need to step up and fix this issue.
09-08-2022, 09:19 AM
PeterKelly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbv6988

So that all sounds great to know how it works, but I think it’s still not acceptable. My wife and I are used to having a constant level, high or low, of heat output like our other vehicles. We’re not fans of the high setting that just shuts off and stays off for too long. Maybe our 2022 RTL seat isn’t working correctly? I can leave my house in the morning with it on High, it will heat up good for about 10 minutes, then shuts down and it never comes on again before I get to work which is about 25 minutes total commute. I have recently complained about this to BRP and my dealer and am waiting for a response. If no OEM solution, I may go to an aftermarket heated seat.

My 2021 RTL does this too

Very frustrating and I intend to ask the dealer to check it at the next service