Any Way to disable VSS/Traction control or severely dumb it down?

Have noticed the VSS icon popping up more as I get more confident riding my 23 Rally, especially in ECO OFF mode, less so in Rally mode but still there.

Sometimes I feel it braking/stuttering the wheels in turns, sometimes not. Either way it's annoying me.

Now that I have a Dynojet PV3 custom tune I'm noticing it even more. Was told the Dynojet cannot control any traction control parameters. Can BUDS2 disable it? Or dial it back to a bare minimum? I only have 1300 miles on my bike so I don't think anything is broken sensor wise, but who knows?

Any suggestions?

Thanks

This has been discussed a few times here .... I don't think anyone reported that they were able to do it ... :agree: it can be annoying - however the alternative is a lot worse, what happens if you are really cranking it in the Twistie's and you go left of center and have a head-on collision ????? .... The VSS has saved my butt a few times. .... IMHO I like VSS " annoying " me ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

This has been discussed a few times here .... I don't think anyone reported that they were able to do it ... :agree: it can be annoying - however the alternative is a lot worse, what happens if you are really cranking it in the Twistie's and you go left of center and have a head-on collision ????? .... The VSS has saved my butt a few times. .... IMHO I like VSS " annoying " me ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

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that would be my fault then lol.. Ive driven plenty of cars that had no ABS or traction control, im still here :)

Badmotor, the short answer to your question is NO! :lecturef_smilie:

But as you get better at controlling your Spyder/Ryker and smoother at feeding in your command & control inputs, you CAN learn to ride juuuust within the limitations set by the Nanny, and eventually, minimize or possibly avoid all those interventions!! :thumbup:

Look further ahead down the road; watch & plan where you WANT to GO, not what you want to avoid; and practice driving smoothly all the time, and IF you work at it hard enough & get better over time, maybe even learn how to move your weight around and tailor your control inputs so that you aid the Nanny rather than trigger her into saving your butt yet again :p you'll discover that those interventions become less aggressive and less frequent too! :ohyea:

Go On!! Do It! You KNOW you want to! :yes:

:agree: with both BlueKnight and Peter Aawan.

Twice, nanny saved me when hydroplaning on Alaska's famous Glenn Highway. There was fast traffic in both lanes. When it rained, you had to be very careful. Twice was enough, I learned to go less than 50mph through puddles. And, I have been slapped on the hand a couple more times for being overly aggressive on the twisties here in AR.

I prefer to have nanny waiting for something bad to happen and helping out in the nick of time. :bowdown:

I appreciate the concern guys, but the "nanny" will kick in on a 15-20mph turn on a side street sometimes. Kind of ridiculous IMO. Im not looking to be tokyo drift here. Any common things to check like sensors, play in steering?

The Rally is supposed to be "performance" oriented. I can only imagine how bad the VSS would be if I actually took it off pavement.

Just thought of something, i have my suspension set at #2 since buying... would increasing the stiffness to level 4 help?

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

I appreciate the concern guys, but the "nanny" will kick in on a 15-20mph turn on a side street sometimes. Kind of ridiculous IMO. Im not looking to be tokyo drift here. Any common things to check like sensors, play in steering?
.....

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Try leaning FORWARD & IN to the corner, at the same time as ONLY PULLING on the inside grip of your handlebars, with no or extremely little pushing on the outside bar. ;) Thru a lot of miles, both my own and that of the many others I've assisted, I've found that for most, pushing forwards & therefore of necessity for most over 4ft tall, also pushing downwards on the outside bar to make a corner tends to add a bunch of 'up high & outward leverage' to the outside lean of the trike, adding significantly to the body roll, and the Nanny really doesn't like that at any speed, while PULLING on the bar at the same time as leaning IN & FORWARDS, as if you were going to kiss the wrist of your inside hand on the corner, will help pull your weight & the trike's CoG into a position that the Nanny much prefers, in a way that will let you corner MUCH harder and faster than if you sit up like Jacky & push on the bars while trying to use your back & core muscles to hold you upright against all the forces that'll now be trying to throw you out & off the trike, instead of working WITH the trike & pulling yourself into leaning in and forwards, thereby aiding the Nanny in helping you get around the corner smoothly and ultimately, if you ever push it to that extreme, waaayy faster than you ever imagined possible! :ohyea:

Still, it's not impossible, but I doubt it's a sensor issue; it might be a steering &/or alignment issue, especially if you've never had that properly checked since the dealer assembly; & it's probably not a suspension setting issue.... But in the vast majority of Spyder/Ryker riding concerns like this, it's an operator issue. You need to come to terms with the fact that it's NOT a motorcycle like any other, it's far more like a quad or a ski-doo, and you need to adjust YOUR riding style & practices to suit. Once you do, and you start to become PROFICIENT with the necessary body english, SMOOOTH & GENTLE with all the necessary control inputs, and learn to ride RIGHT UP TO BUT NEVER TRIGGERING THE NANNY, things will fall into place and you'll find it an absolute blast, WITHOUT triggering the Nanny all the time!! :yes:

These Spyder/Ryker things are FAR more agile than you might think during the learning phase, when thru your own actions (or inactions) you might be unknowingly triggering the Nanny way more often than necessary, but the Nanny is really only trying to help you get better at doing the right thing! Every time the Nanny steps in, think a little about what YOU might have done to trigger that intervention, and what YOU could do next time to avoid triggering her that way again. For most, it doesn't take a massive amount of time, altho it might be a thousand miles or more; but for some.... :rolleyes:

Just Sayin' - again! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen

Try leaning FORWARD & IN to the corner, at the same time as ONLY PULLING on the inside grip of your handlebars, with no or extremely little pushing on the outside bar. ;) Thru a lot of miles, both my own and that of the many others I've assisted, I've found that for most, pushing forwards & therefore of necessity for most over 4ft tall, also pushing downwards on the outside bar to make a corner tends to add a bunch of 'up high & outward leverage' to the outside lean of the trike, adding significantly to the body roll, and the Nanny really doesn't like that at any speed, while PULLING on the bar at the same time as leaning IN & FORWARDS, as if you were going to kiss the wrist of your inside hand on the corner, will help pull your weight & the trike's CoG into a position that the Nanny much prefers, in a way that will let you corner MUCH harder and faster than if you sit up like Jacky & push on the bars while trying to use your back & core muscles to hold you upright against all the forces that'll now be trying to throw you out & off the trike, instead of working WITH the trike & pulling yourself into leaning in and forwards, thereby aiding the Nanny in helping you get around the corner smoothly and ultimately, if you ever push it to that extreme, waaayy faster than you ever imagined possible! :ohyea:

Still, it's not impossible, but I doubt it's a sensor issue; it might be a steering &/or alignment issue, especially if you've never had that properly checked since the dealer assembly; & it's probably not a suspension setting issue.... But in the vast majority of Spyder/Ryker riding concerns like this, it's an operator issue. You need to come to terms with the fact that it's NOT a motorcycle like any other, it's far more like a quad or a ski-doo, and you need to adjust YOUR riding style & practices to suit. Once you do, and you start to become PROFICIENT with the necessary body english, SMOOOTH & GENTLE with all the necessary control inputs, and learn to ride RIGHT UP TO BUT NEVER TRIGGERING THE NANNY, things will fall into place and you'll find it an absolute blast, WITHOUT triggering the Nanny all the time!! :yes:

These Spyder/Ryker things are FAR more agile than you might think during the learning phase, when thru your own actions (or inactions) you might be unknowingly triggering the Nanny way more often than necessary, but the Nanny is really only trying to help you get better at doing the right thing! Every time the Nanny steps in, think a little about what YOU might have done to trigger that intervention, and what YOU could do next time to avoid triggering her that way again. For most, it doesn't take a massive amount of time, altho it might be a thousand miles or more; but for some.... :rolleyes:

Just Sayin' - again! :thumbup:

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Great info Peter ... however I think :bdh: ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

I appreciate the concern guys, but the "nanny" will kick in on a 15-20mph turn on a side street sometimes. Kind of ridiculous IMO. Im not looking to be tokyo drift here. Any common things to check like sensors, play in steering?

The Rally is supposed to be "performance" oriented. I can only imagine how bad the VSS would be if I actually took it off pavement.

Just thought of something, i have my suspension set at #2 since buying... would increasing the stiffness to level 4 help?

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Try the suspension adjustment. I have an RT which is a different animal, but when I installed REAL tires and stiffened the suspension I also increased cornering speeds before nanny intervention.

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Originally Posted by Navydad

Try the suspension adjustment. I have an RT which is a different animal, but when I installed REAL tires and stiffened the suspension I also increased cornering speeds before nanny intervention.

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Turning up the fronts to #4 & rear at #3 or #4 seems to have helped a bit to keep the VSS from kicking in. And I flashed a slightly revised tune that he sent last night. Yes real performance summer tires would be great, wish they made RE71RS for Ryker sizes!!

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

Turning up the fronts to #4 & rear at #3 or #4 seems to have helped a bit to keep the VSS from kicking in. And I flashed a slightly revised tune that he sent last night. Yes real performance summer tires would be great, wish they made RE71RS for Ryker sizes!!

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Have you looked at the Yokohama Advan Fleva for the rear and the Federal Formoza AZ-01's for the fronts? I use them on my F3S... I don't know the sizes you need but worth it to look! Both are GREAT performance tires...

You can unplug the two front wheel sensors. that'll will put it in limp mode, but everything will be disabled, VSS, ABS, etc. you can see how riding with it would be like.
I don't suggest doing unless you're just going to mess around.

The real way of doing it is disconnecting the front sensors and splicing them into the rear wheel sensor. No limp mode that way.. but be warned it will slide alot more than it normally would.

I honestly wish Can am would either give us a race mode or a special key to unlock the bike with no aids on it. Some of us like to have fun :)

oh.. and before I hear it.. I don't care lol...

Rally Mode (only available on the Ryker Rally) drastically turns down the Nanny but doesn't turn it off. If you are in Rally Mode and it's kicking in often, without really pushing the boundaries, it's possible you may have a faulty wheel sensor. There is no Spyder/Ryker that allows you to disable it completely unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by blackphoenix38

You can unplug the two front wheel sensors. that'll will put it in limp mode, but everything will be disabled, VSS, ABS, etc. you can see how riding with it would be like.
I don't suggest doing unless you're just going to mess around.

The real way of doing it is disconnecting the front sensors and splicing them into the rear wheel sensor. No limp mode that way.. but be warned it will slide alot more than it normally would.

I honestly wish Can am would either give us a race mode or a special key to unlock the bike with no aids on it. Some of us like to have fun :)

oh.. and before I hear it.. I don't care lol...

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Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Was speaking to a friend who does custom engine harnesses/wiring for cars & we are going to look into doing something like this, but with a switch that can go between normal setup & all 3 sensors reading from rear wheel.

Besides having more fun on the street it would allow you to push things at a track event too.

Also was reading that HP Tuners software has capability to tune the VCM module also but I need to look into that further.

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Was speaking to a friend who does custom engine harnesses/wiring for cars & we are going to look into doing something like this, but with a switch that can go between normal setup & all 3 sensors reading from rear wheel.

Besides having more fun on the street it would allow you to push things at a track event too.

Also was reading that HP Tuners software has capability to tune the VCM module also but I need to look into that further.

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How are you planning on defeating the input to the VSS System from the Yaw Rate Sensor? There’s a lot more to what causes a VSS intervention than just wheel speed.

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Originally Posted by Snowbelt Spyder

How are you planning on defeating the input to the VSS System from the Yaw Rate Sensor? There’s a lot more to what causes a VSS intervention than just wheel speed.

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Thats a very good question, maybe some sort of resistor inline that always shows sensor value as bike being straight, or shows less rotation than it should up to a point.
Im far from an expert on the systems of the Ryker so any constructive input is welcome.

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

Thats a very good question, maybe some sort of resistor inline that always shows sensor value as bike being straight, or shows less rotation than it should up to a point.
Im far from an expert on the systems of the Ryker so any constructive input is welcome.

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Sensors are on the CAN bus - not easy to replicate.

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

Sometimes I feel it braking/stuttering the wheels in turns, sometimes not. Either way it's annoying me.

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BTW, do you get this on left turns only?

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Originally Posted by DickB

Sensors are on the CAN bus - not easy to replicate.

BTW, do you get this on left turns only?

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It happens on left & right turns, definitely more than stock due to the tuning of throttle & torque requested.

Here's the CANBUS connectivity and VCM functionality Snowbelt Spyder was referring to:









BRP spent significant engineering effort and manufacturing expense to create a 3-wheeler that was as safe as automobiles for everyone to ride with, for the most part, standard driving licenses. Not only did they achieve their goal but they took steps to ensure these safety actions could not be defeated.

But they can be defeated ... if you have the talent and persrverance of megagame to decode and inject CANBUS message signalling and content.

I suspect any commercial vendor capable of defeating the VSS would keep this information quiet to avoid legal action by BRP. For example, BRP went after one member for publishing free software that helped explain the diagnostic and fault codes.

OK something is definitely wrong with my VSS system.
Today every time I started the bike, the first few turns I made, no matter how slow & easy I made them the SCS would kick in at front left or right tire.
After a few turns this stopped & bike rode basically normal. Didn't matter whether I was in Eco Off or Rally Mode. If I turn the bike off & start again, I go through same thing again.

I'm gonna flash the PV3 back to stock file tomorrow just to eliminate the tune as a culprit, but I doubt that's the problem. Why would the tune only make it happen for first few left & right turns?

Which sensors are primarily responsible for triggering the VSS at either front wheel? Will start by checking those to make sure they're not loose or something...

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Originally Posted by Badmotorf1nger

OK something is definitely wrong with my VSS system.
Today every time I started the bike, the first few turns I made, no matter how slow & easy I made them the SCS would kick in at front left or right tire.
After a few turns this stopped & bike rode basically normal. Didn't matter whether I was in Eco Off or Rally Mode. If I turn the bike off & start again, I go through same thing again.

I'm gonna flash the PV3 back to stock file tomorrow just to eliminate the tune as a culprit, but I doubt that's the problem. Why would the tune only make it happen for first few left & right turns?

Which sensors are primarily responsible for triggering the VSS at either front wheel? Will start by checking those to make sure they're not loose or something...

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Why wait for tomorrow... I just flashed back to stock & those VSS issues disappeared.
I'm guessing something in my 2023 ECM does not like either the Dynojet PV3, or something about the tunes.
But since I'm the first guy to have a PV3 tune on a 2023 and the software doesn't show anything about VSS I'd imagine this will be very difficult to remotely pin down via e-tuning.

Will still try the wheel speed sensor bypass trick & see if that dumbs things down enough to let the tune work good enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Aawen

Try leaning FORWARD & IN to the corner, at the same time as ONLY PULLING on the inside grip of your handlebars, with no or extremely little pushing on the outside bar. ;) Thru a lot of miles, both my own and that of the many others I've assisted, I've found that for most, pushing forwards & therefore of necessity for most over 4ft tall, also pushing downwards on the outside bar to make a corner tends to add a bunch of 'up high & outward leverage' to the outside lean of the trike, adding significantly to the body roll, and the Nanny really doesn't like that at any speed, while PULLING on the bar at the same time as leaning IN & FORWARDS, as if you were going to kiss the wrist of your inside hand on the corner, will help pull your weight & the trike's CoG into a position that the Nanny much prefers, in a way that will let you corner MUCH harder and faster than if you sit up like Jacky & push on the bars while trying to use your back & core muscles to hold you upright against all the forces that'll now be trying to throw you out & off the trike, instead of working WITH the trike & pulling yourself into leaning in and forwards, thereby aiding the Nanny in helping you get around the corner smoothly and ultimately, if you ever push it to that extreme, waaayy faster than you ever imagined possible! :ohyea:

Still, it's not impossible, but I doubt it's a sensor issue; it might be a steering &/or alignment issue, especially if you've never had that properly checked since the dealer assembly; & it's probably not a suspension setting issue.... But in the vast majority of Spyder/Ryker riding concerns like this, it's an operator issue. You need to come to terms with the fact that it's NOT a motorcycle like any other, it's far more like a quad or a ski-doo, and you need to adjust YOUR riding style & practices to suit. Once you do, and you start to become PROFICIENT with the necessary body english, SMOOOTH & GENTLE with all the necessary control inputs, and learn to ride RIGHT UP TO BUT NEVER TRIGGERING THE NANNY, things will fall into place and you'll find it an absolute blast, WITHOUT triggering the Nanny all the time!! :yes:

These Spyder/Ryker things are FAR more agile than you might think during the learning phase, when thru your own actions (or inactions) you might be unknowingly triggering the Nanny way more often than necessary, but the Nanny is really only trying to help you get better at doing the right thing! Every time the Nanny steps in, think a little about what YOU might have done to trigger that intervention, and what YOU could do next time to avoid triggering her that way again. For most, it doesn't take a massive amount of time, altho it might be a thousand miles or more; but for some.... :rolleyes:

Just Sayin' - again! :thumbup:

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Thanks Peter, I needed this.

Sarah

I have a 2023 Ryker 600. New to me maybe 400 mi. Going down the road at 45 mile per hour It seems like the brakes are being slightly applied. Can this happen without getting any kind of light in the display?

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Originally Posted by guber

I have a 2023 Ryker 600. New to me maybe 400 mi. Going down the road at 45 mile per hour It seems like the brakes are being slightly applied. Can this happen without getting any kind of light in the display?

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I think what you feeling is " engine braking " ..... Mike :thumbup:

Would I get engine braking holding the throttle steady?

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Originally Posted by guber

I have a 2023 Ryker 600. New to me maybe 400 mi. Going down the road at 45 mile per hour It seems like the brakes are being slightly applied. Can this happen without getting any kind of light in the display?

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Could use more details. What exactly makes you feel that the brakes are being applied? Is it a steady feeling or more like pulsing on and off? Straight or curve?

Straight flat road. It would be random pulsing. Could be slight stumble in the engine but at the high RPMs doesn't seem likely. or maybe?

It could be something faulty in the stability control, such as a bad Steering Angle Sensor or Yaw Rate Sensor, but I've only seen problems reported in curves. As you are under warranty, I would have your dealer check it out. whatever it is, it's not normal.

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Originally Posted by guber

Straight flat road. It would be random pulsing. Could be slight stumble in the engine but at the high RPMs doesn't seem likely. or maybe?

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Could be belt slippage. Have you checked your CVT air filter?

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Originally Posted by BajaRon

Could be belt slippage. Have you checked your CVT air filter?

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At 400 miles?

Does it happen only at that speed, guber?

Sarah

Okay I checked it again. I found it appears/I noticed it when I had the cruise control on. So it must be the engine modulating the speed. Not the smoothest operation.

I've not used cruise control a whole lot, so I can't comment there. But I'm glad to hear the bike's okay.

Sarah