For Blueknight911 - Vredestein for rear tire 2016 RTL

Mike, I'm about ready to try the Vredestein for my back tire. Question-is the Quatrac 5 a sticky tire? Or is it just a good tire? I need a sticky tire and that is why I have been using the Yokohama S Drive. Also, which size should I choose in the Quatrac? How about the Sportrac? And what should the psi on these two tires be? Most of my riding is done in the warmer temps (I don't do much riding in the actual winter months).

Thanks for your reply-I can always count on you to give me the true information.

Not Mike,

But I just went from the S-drive to the Quatrac 5 in the 205/60R 15 size and I think it's as sticky as the S-drive. One thing I did notice is that the ride is softer then the S-drive. Not sure if that due to the 60 viruses the 55 ratio, but I do like it better. This is on my F3s.

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Originally Posted by Chiisai

Mike, I'm about ready to try the Vredestein for my back tire. Question-is the Quatrac 5 a sticky tire? Or is it just a good tire? I need a sticky tire and that is why I have been using the Yokohama S Drive. Also, which size should I choose in the Quatrac? How about the Sportrac? And what should the psi on these two tires be? Most of my riding is done in the warmer temps (I don't do much riding in the actual winter months).

Thanks for your reply-I can always count on you to give me the true information.

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Also, not Mike here...
I have put on approx 3k miles on my quatrac ( I have them on all 3).
They are far superior to Kenda and ride soft and smooth butttt, I wouldn’t call them sticky as the rear has slid out a couple times in wet conditions. The Sportrac is higher rated in the rain but you may have a tough time getting them in the US. I wish I could tell you they were super sticky but I can’t. Hope this helps...

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Originally Posted by PW2013STL

Not Mike,

But I just went from the S-drive to the Quatrac 5 in the 205/60R 15 size and I think it's as sticky as the S-drive. One thing I did notice is that the ride is softer then the S-drive. Not sure if that due to the 60 viruses the 55 ratio, but I do like it better. This is on my F3s.

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Wow, that is very interesting. I really can't wait to try this tire. I have an appointment on the 9th of July to have my S Drive changed out. What psi are you running on that Quatrac?

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Originally Posted by Jeffmal

Also, not Mike here...
I have put on approx 3k miles on my quatrac ( I have them on all 3).
They are far superior to Kenda and ride soft and smooth butttt, I wouldn’t call them sticky as the rear has slid out a couple times in wet conditions. The Sportrac is higher rated in the rain but you may have a tough time getting them in the US. I wish I could tell you they were super sticky but I can’t. Hope this helps...

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I really need a tire that handles well in wet conditions. Here in SE Missouri it has rained almost every day for the last 3 months. What is the average mileage on these Vredestein ?

:agree: with the other posters who are ACTUAL users of the Quatrac 5 …… According to the TIRE RACK testers, the " S " drive is far below the Quatrac 5 in the FOUR main reasons for buying/using any tire, ie. Wet -Dry - Comfort - Treadwear ….. Are there Better tires , Absolutely, however if they don't make those tires in sizes to fit our Spyder's it doesn't matter how Great they are...……. As far as what PSI works best, well the following PSI's I use are F= 16 , R= 17. …. and this applies to All Car tires used on Spyders…… IMHO the " PERFECT " psi isn't attainable by the average owner. WE don't have the equipment, or funds necessary to achieve that..... So trying to or wishing it so , isn't realistic. … I base my recommendations on Science and what is reasonably attainable …….. The absolutely STICKIEST tire that I know off is/was the Toyo Proxes T 1r, but availability in our sizes ( in the U.S. ) aren't available from any seller that I know of ...…. Hope this helps you out ………..Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by Chiisai

Wow, that is very interesting. I really can't wait to try this tire. I have an appointment on the 9th of July to have my S Drive changed out. What psi are you running on that Quatrac?

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I am running them at 16# front and 18# rear. I also have them on all three. I have driven in some very heavy rain and found them to handle as well (better than most) as any tire that I have tried. Are they hydro plane proof- NO, but no tire is.

Once my wife's 2018 F3l needs tires (only 4,000 miles on it) these are the tires I will be putting on!

I am watching this with interest as a replacement for my Kendas(fr) and Arachnid (rr)

I would like tyres for my RTL that don't aquaplane so easily.

This week on the East Coast of Australia we've had good rain, not heavy just constant. I took a 700km round trip and had the rear end try to overtake the front a few times. After the first two I actually started experimenting to see how little a "line" of water laying in a wheel track it would take to cause it to aquaplane. It doesn't take much.

Some may not see this as amusing, but the 1st episode happened with a Dual Cab Toyota Hilux so close to my tail lights he could have change the bulb for me. The RT stepped the tail to the right for a good 20-25m (20-25 yds). Yes it was putting the wind up me but Mr Hilux got one hell of a fright and stayed w a y back after it.

What sizes - front and rear - for 2014 RTS? Noticed mine needs a rear tire, and the fronts are close enough to do all at once. Also, anyone know of a good shop close to Columbia SC? If needed, I can remove them and haul them in the truck.

I rode them in heavy rain during my tour in early June and they stuck well... didn't feel them slip or slide on me. I'm running them at Mike's recommended PSI and have really enjoyed the improvement over the stock tires that were on my RS. I bought an RS with 5k on the stock tires... but it is a 2010... so didn't trust them at 9 years old (or more). After all the complaints about the Kenda's... was happy to be rid of them. I have to say, amazed at the change in the bike from the tires alone.

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Originally Posted by Wahrsuul

What sizes - front and rear - for 2014 RTS? Noticed mine needs a rear tire, and the fronts are close enough to do all at once. Also, anyone know of a good shop close to Columbia SC? If needed, I can remove them and haul them in the truck.

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If you are asking about using the Vredestein Quatrac 5 …. folks here have put 175/55-15 on the front and 205/60-15 on the rear … Try and but them at the Tire Rack.co … or Simple tire … or Vulcan tire ….these folks sell them on-line …… Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by askitee

I am watching this with interest as a replacement for my Kendas(fr) and Arachnid (rr)

I would like tyres for my RTL that don't aquaplane so easily.

This week on the East Coast of Australia we've had good rain, not heavy just constant. I took a 700km round trip and had the rear end try to overtake the front a few times. After the first two I actually started experimenting to see how little a "line" of water laying in a wheel track it would take to cause it to aquaplane. It doesn't take much.

Some may not see this as amusing, but the 1st episode happened with a Dual Cab Toyota Hilux so close to my tail lights he could have change the bulb for me. The RT stepped the tail to the right for a good 20-25m (20-25 yds). Yes it was putting the wind up me but Mr Hilux got one hell of a fright and stayed w a y back after it.

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Folks in your part of the world have said they can't get the Vredestein's ….. another choice for you is the General Altimax RT 43 ( T-rated model ) or Michelin Primacy ….. good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

If you change tires, I have found that one of the first questions to ask is, do you have the correct size spindle to balance the tires. I had a shop replace a set of front tires. It was several months later when I asked they be rebalanced. OH he said, we don't have that spindle so we just put them on. I searched and found a Firestone shop that did, but I would never ever put a Firestone on my bike. My local dealer who is now out of the Spyder business and has closed their shop (no BUDS access) charged me $80 to put a fender back on that I had removed to put a wrap on. And over $200 to replace the rear tire. Dealership, as "I" see it, are not nice people. Just money hungry at all cost.

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Originally Posted by Chiisai

Wow, that is very interesting. I really can't wait to try this tire. I have an appointment on the 9th of July to have my S Drive changed out. What psi are you running on that Quatrac?

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I have also adjusted down to 16 front and 18 rear and that seems to be the safest sweet spot. After over 3k miles they still look brand new! I live in wet, sunny South Florida.
Sticky tires are important! I don't know of a tire that sticks better but the Vredestein Sportrac is better rated in the rain! I don't know if you will be able to locate any and they are NOT an all weather tire.

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Originally Posted by Chiisai

... Question-is the Quatrac 5 a sticky tire? Or is it just a good tire? I need a sticky tire ....

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Define 'sticky'. Do you mean dry grip or wet grip or both?

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Originally Posted by Spyderlass

Define 'sticky'. Do you mean dry grip or wet grip or both?

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Sticky as in hugging the pavement going around curves, which would be dry grip. The stickiness is usually a softer rubber, but I am looking forward to testing the Vredestein tire out for not only how sticky it is in the curves, but also the water displacement during and after rain.

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Originally Posted by Chiisai

Sticky as in hugging the pavement going around curves, which would be dry grip. The stickiness is usually a softer rubber, but I am looking forward to testing the Vredestein tire out for not only how sticky it is in the curves, but also the water displacement during and after rain.

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Ah, well you may be disappointed, the Vredestein tyre is an 'All weather' tyre and as such is a compromise tyre primarily designed for countries of moderate climate where it's possible to have satisfactory results because the extremes of the weather are not great. It is a tyre capable of functioning as a snow tyre but also functioning as a summer weather tyre. Because these two extremes are so different, the compromises necessary in the design and function of the tyre limit its effectiveness at both extremes. It is simply not possible to have the best of both worlds and that is why summer tyres and winter tyres still exist - they're both better at their job than the compromise 'All weather' tyre design.

I run these tyres on my vehicles because, living in Scotland, we don't normally experience the extremes of temperature so an 'All weather' tyre is acceptable but I have to say that for the majority of UK drivers this is not the case and they run summer tyres all year around to have the benefits in handling and grip that the summer tyre provides.

So, to answer your question, no, an all weather tyre could not be considered a 'sticky' tyre for dry road use. Though it can be a very satisfactory tyre, nevertheless.

With regard to wet conditions, one has to separate wet grip and aquaplaning resistance, these two requirements are entirely different and require different characteristics of the tyre. It's a complex area and beyond a simple discussion here but a few basic principles can be mentioned.
For wet road grip the tyre needs to be capable of some water displacement and also capable of mopping up the remaining water so that the tyre rubber is in good contact with the asphalt surface; secondly, the rubber compound needs to be capable of griping a damp surface. Generlly, 'All weather' tyres are quite good at this so are a fair choice for the driver/rider who often encounters these conditions.

However, aquaplaning resistance requires that the tyre is so capable of displacing water that it resists the tendency to roll up the wedge of water formed under its leading face when rolling. To achieve this it must have wide grooves, the grooves must be arranged so as not to impede the water flow and, if possible the tread blocks are to act as water pumps as they are loaded and pressed against the road surface. Since at the onset of aquaplaning the tyre is leaving the road surface and riding up on top of the water, it stands to reason that the rubber compound is less important.
As a wee note, if a tyre tread has lots of large spaces it will have less rubber on the road surface, also it will be more difficult to arrange that its tread blocks support each other. These limitations can compromise performance and tyre life.

Plainly the whole picture is much more complex than this short note here but it is an outline and one can use the information as a guide when assessing the suitability of a particular tyre for one's own requirements.

I'll post 3 pictures of tyre treads, you can have a look and see which you consider to have certain characteristics.

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Originally Posted by Spyderlass

Ah, well you may be disappointed, the Vredestein tyre is an 'All weather' tyre and as such is a compromise tyre primarily designed for countries of moderate climate where it's possible to have satisfactory results because the extremes of the weather are not great. It is a tyre capable of functioning as a snow tyre but also functioning as a summer weather tyre. Because these two extremes are so different, the compromises necessary in the design and function of the tyre limit its effectiveness at both extremes. It is simply not possible to have the best of both worlds and that is why summer tyres and winter tyres still exist - they're both better at their job than the compromise 'All weather' tyre design.

I run these tyres on my vehicles because, living in Scotland, we don't normally experience the extremes of temperature so an 'All weather' tyre is acceptable but I have to say that for the majority of UK drivers this is not the case and they run summer tyres all year around to have the benefits in handling and grip that the summer tyre provides.

So, to answer your question, no, an all weather tyre could not be considered a 'sticky' tyre for dry road use. Though it can be a very satisfactory tyre, nevertheless.
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Plainly the whole picture is much more complex than this short note here but it is an outline and one can use the information as a guide when assessing the suitability of a particular tyre for one's own requirements.

I'll post 3 pictures of tyre treads, you can have a look and see which you consider to have certain characteristics.

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Well put Spyderlass, and you've described the situations I have to consider. Here in Australia I can encounter :
45 Degrees Celsius days down to -5 Degrees C
Greasy roads covered in moisture from fog to tropical downpours.

I've been looking at the tread patterns and compounds of the various aftermarket rubber that fits my RTL front and rear and trying to find something that suits. Perish the thought on a MC forum, but I am trying to find something similar to the Yokohama Advans on my Lexus. They are a very wide low profile tyre (factory std) rarely aquaplane and stick like the proverbial to a blanket ( for the non Aussies ;) stick like poo to a blanket). They however don't last long but I love the fact that in day to day driving they do well, you can encounter something that may bring others unstuck (like travelling a country road and you think its just a different shade of blue metal gravel used to tar the road and find its actually quite wet) Its this good compromise I am after. I applied the same philosophy on two two wheelers, always went for quality wet weather grip over longevity.

I haven't found anything the Kendas do well except bounce in the "waste tyre bin" when tossed in at the dealership, or cut up to make baby swan ornaments for the front garden.

I saw the Pirelli Cinturato Winter tyre in 165/65 R15 and wondered what it would be like in AU, looks like its a EU/UK only.

Your 3 left to right
1. Wet tyre?
2. Looks like a snow tyre ?
3. Ideal for wheelbarrows (looks like a Kenda)

Has anyone tried the Federal Formoza FD2 Performance Radial Tire - 205/60R15 91V? It has a UTQG 420 Temperature A and Traction A rating. I have not ... yet. But this tire interests me because it is symmetrical and is a directional tire. I still have the original Kenda tire on the rear and will be watching these posts until replacement time rolls around.

Yeah, I'm still looking at what I want to replace with. Of the dealers mentioned, only Vulcan had both sizes of Vredestein available.

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

:agree: with the other posters who are ACTUAL users of the Quatrac 5 …… According to the TIRE RACK testers, the " S " drive is far below the Quatrac 5 in the FOUR main reasons for buying/using any tire, ie. Wet -Dry - Comfort - Treadwear ….. ………..Mike :ohyea:

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You cannot compare ratings for a speed rated summer performance tire against an all weather station wagon tire. IE a summer performance tire with a traction rating of B will still have more straight line grip than an A rated all weather passenger car or SUV tire. You can only compare Tire Rack ratings within the same performance category.

From personal experience I can tell you the Quatrac 5 does not have the straight line grip that the S-Drive does. Not even close. I have a customer with them, off the line launch he just spins easily. I have also ridden his bike and can confirm the traction just is not there. Even more so when the two are warmed prior to launch.

Like the Generals, the Quatrac may last longer, but its not as sticky. I would not have one on my F3. Might be a good choice for an RT or F3L though. Different tires are better at different things.

I've got an Arachnid 350, 225/50R15 on the back. What does everyone recommend for tire pressure for this tire?:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by Baron14y

I've got an Arachnid 350, 225/50R15 on the back. What does everyone recommend for tire pressure for this tire?:popcorn:

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Zero. That is the pressure in that tire when you break the bead to remove it. Absolute junk. Arachnid are likely the only tires on the planet WORSE than the Kenda.

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Originally Posted by Baron14y

I've got an Arachnid 350, 225/50R15 on the back. What does everyone recommend for tire pressure for this tire?:popcorn:

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I personally don’t agree with your choice, and I say this from personal experience, but to answer your question....same pressures as recommended for the OEM Kenda. I ran at 30#.

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Originally Posted by bigbadbrucie

I personally don’t agree with your choice, and I say this from personal experience, but to answer your question....same pressures as recommended for the OEM Kenda. I ran at 30#.

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Didn't have a choice on the tire. It was on the Spyder when I bought it. My choice would have been a Kumho.

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Originally Posted by Baron14y

Didn't have a choice on the tire. It was on the Spyder when I bought it. My choice would have been a Kumho.

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I see you are in Fla. , a place that can get very heavy downpours ….. many folks on this site have reported Their Kumho's lost a lot of the WET traction they had until the tires were only Half-worn, then they had Hydro-planning issues …. just something to consider ….. Mike :ohyea:

Just changed the tire pressures on the front Federal's, and the rear Arachnid. Trying 18 psi on the fronts, and 24 psi on the rear. I'll see how that feels (assuming the feels like temp ever gets below 103).:pray:

I know this thread is a few weeks old but I think if you want to truly know how sticky a tire is, you probably need to trust a more scientific method of comparison instead of a "seat of the pants FEEL". That seat of the pants is each individual's own personal opinion and not likely to be very accurate considering each individual has a different riding style, different bike/trike, different weight, etc. The UTQG tire rating is something a bit more precise and it would probably help most of us in decision making when choosing tires. just sayin.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/utqg-rating

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Originally Posted by cruisinTX

I know this thread is a few weeks old but I think if you want to truly know how sticky a tire is, you probably need to trust a more scientific method of comparison instead of a "seat of the pants FEEL". That seat of the pants is each individual's own personal opinion and not likely to be very accurate considering each individual has a different riding style, different bike/trike, different weight, etc. The UTQG tire rating is something a bit more precise and it would probably help most of us in decision making when choosing tires. just sayin.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/utqg-rating

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I have said the exact same thing about " seat of the pants " vs science and :agree: ……. I also did some research on the " UTQG " rating …. every manufacturer of tires Rates their tires to THEIR own standard … there is NO Gov't. standard ( a minimum ) like they have for Temp - Traction etc..... ie someone's 400 rating may be better than another's 500 rating …. Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

I have said the exact same thing about " seat of the pants " vs science and :agree: ……. I also did some research on the " UTQG " rating …. every manufacturer of tires Rates their tires to THEIR own standard … there is NO Gov't. standard ( a minimum ) like they have for Temp - Traction etc..... ie someone's 400 rating may be better than another's 500 rating …. Mike :ohyea:

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True statements, but in light of not having a uniform standard, UTQG rating is as close as one is going to get to a "scientific" look at tire durability, stickiness and traction capabilities. The article I linked to clearly states that. So, until a uniform testing method and scale are established (if ever) it is the best we have and certainly better than any seat of the pants opinion.

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Originally Posted by cruisinTX

I know this thread is a few weeks old but I think if you want to truly know how sticky a tire is, you probably need to trust a more scientific method of comparison instead of a "seat of the pants FEEL". That seat of the pants is each individual's own personal opinion and not likely to be very accurate considering each individual has a different riding style, different bike/trike, different weight, etc. The UTQG tire rating is something a bit more precise and it would probably help most of us in decision making when choosing tires. just sayin.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/utqg-rating

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I just read your link to the Tire Buyer ….. it says Exactly what I said about the UTQG ….. Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

I just read your link to the Tire Buyer ….. it says Exactly what I said about the UTQG ….. Mike :ohyea:

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So, even though I agreed with you ("True statements") there is still this uncontrollable need to gloat? sheesh!

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Originally Posted by cruisinTX

So, even though I agreed with you ("True statements") there is still this uncontrollable need to gloat? sheesh!

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" Gloat " - ??? …. I don't think so …. it could be you weren't very clear in what you were trying to convey ……….. Mike :ohyea:

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Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

The absolutely STICKIEST tire that I know off is/was the Toyo Proxes T 1r,

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Nah, The Toyo RA1, R888 & Yoko Advan A048, all would be much stickier..... But the T1R would last longer! :roflblack:

Are all the recommended tires listed for the RT, or are they also the same for the F3L ??

johnv

??? .. are you asking about the sizes or the brands ...or both ….. Mike :ohyea:

Mike, I am asking about both....thanks

johnv

Just got a little over 13,000 miles on my rear 215/65 R15 VREDESTEIN Quatrac 5 tire. Our 2014 RT Limited should go a few more thousand before I even worry about it. Very sticky tire up here in North Idaho. UTQG is around 400. Very comfortable and quiet tire. No concerns regarding accurate speedometer readings or mileage as the tire is a tiny bit taller.