Glad you said "most". I keep a V-max around for just a little excitement. At 70 yrs old---- V-boost is a real kick.
Lew L
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Thank you so very much for your extremely useful post! It has helped me so much with my question!!!
I have googled it. There is nothing out there. That is why I posted my question here. I thought if any would know, it would be the members here...
If u want two folow me arround corecting mi speling, punktuation, n gramar, u r goin too b verry bussy! :thumbup:
I cannot imagine that BRP's plan is to NOT grow their market. That's how they satisfy their investors. That's how business works. That's how everything works. When it doesn't grow it's either a sign that somethings wrong, end of product life, or market saturation. Two things we can all agree on: The Spyder market is NOT saturated AND it's definitely NOT an obsolete product!
Caution & risk (liability): I suspect that's what is holding them back.... They're taking "baby steps." Allowing drivers to disable the nanny's anti-slip was one of them. Unfortunately in an SE (mine anyways) doing so makes very little (if any) difference with good sticky tires. I still don't know why it's not possible to change sprockets. Seems like everything else is reporting back via wheel spin speeds. All that would sacrifice is a touch of top end. And for those of us who don't care about going 120 (let alone 90 - not in this for tickets lol/col.)......
FWIW: Gearing change (sprockets) seems plausible regardless of any associated "fly by wire" control system issues. ~ Because the aftermarket companies are now beginning to remap the ECM's.
I wouldn't mind a bit more power. I ride two up with a trailer and it struggles with headwinds and hills.
These are two VERY good reasons of why the 1330 RT's could and should have the option of using the 89 tooth rear sprocket...So far, and as far as I know, No one has been successful with this change...I read only one post where one RT owner tried making it work without success...This individual was going to give this a second trail but they would never answer my PM's...Go here and read posts by GM=tech and others...http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...sprocket/page2) (I have been in contact with both of the ECM tuners and they both would like to get this working...I am willing to buy the parts and put the time and effort in this fix over the winter months and hopefully get it working...It would be really nice if BRP would step up with a belt, pulley kit and a reflash that would allow this to happen...Hopefully the aftermarket can crack this nut...I think this would be a very popular option for the RT's owners riding 2 up, pulling a trailer and riding mountain twisty roads...larryd
I wonder if BUDS MegaTech will allow the changes and / or disabling the Nanny? I know it allows it on the off road side with ATVs and SxSs.
http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/brpbud...echlicencekey/
I learned From Monster fuel one way to get around the gearing change the nanny won't allow. Something about splicing the sensor cable from the rear tire and tying it in with a front wheel sensor. They were doing this to be able to run the bike on a Dyno. This would tell the ECU all three tires are spinning equal and allow any gearing change. The fuel mapping is identical for the 89 or the 79 tooth sprocket but you would loose traction control and abs for the rear wheel as it is blinded. Only a theory I was told, but it makes sense??
Right now monster fuel has a Daytona test bike and is working on a complete package turbo kit. Basically taking parts off of other BRP product lines and fitting them to the Can-Am. I was told that their ECU flashes which are netting about 25 ponies aren't really selling as hoped for. This is having a domino effect on funding for the turbo project. Seems Can-Am owners talk the performance talk but don't walk the performance walk even though there is 25 ponies for $350 with the ECU flash.
Just in case people have missed it, here is a video of my test RT going from 0 to 68 mph, laying down about 25' of rubber in under 6 seconds. A Stock RT is only going 50 mph in the same time and distance. My NEW F3L hauls but with the flash but it took an exhaust change to get the results.
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/
I am not spending $350 for only 25 ponies. I think most are fine just the way the Spyder is for now. JMO :shocked:
Now change the pricing and MAYBE you will get more people to take the Pony plunge .
I have to say, at least from my point of view, my RT has plenty of performance.
I'm more into touring. My farkles include more lights and the sound system.
If my RT accelerated to 60 MPH 3 seconds faster, that means I get to work 3 seconds earlier.
I'm not passing judgement on those that want to hop up their Spyders.
I'm merely adding another point of view that might explain why there are so few performance upgrades available.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. I'm sure someone on this forum will point out my error.
So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.
I am always looking for more power. And adding 20%+ more horsepower to a $25k+ machine for only $350 is a real bargain (If the gains are true). I come from (and still am) the ford performance family (numerous mustangs, including my roush and my ford lightning), and there are no gains to be had in that way (percentage wise), without going to nitrous. Which, is the one thing that I have never heard anyone mention in the spyder world.
So, has anyone ever installed nitrous to to their spyder? I would really like to read their post:yes:
Since some of you think its a bargain why not jump on this great deal and performance upgrade then:dontknow:
Even a bargain is only a bargain when it has been tried and proven. I am never one to have to (or want to) be the first guy on the block to try something.
That seems to be the norm around here. That is why you have people paying $30k+ for a spyder that I will pick up in 4-5 months from a dealer for $24k or less. I am patient and will wait until something is proven, or a bargain, and then spend my money.
But to each their own.
I think Ann has spoken for all of us. You might be hanging out with the wrong crowd if all your concerned with is power upgrades, turbo's, wheelie's, racing
and lack of Libido! The Harley crowd may be more to your liking. I went through that phase of my life from 1951 till 2008. (and enjoyed every minute of it)
:D
Jack
PS Get a Can AM Maverick with a Turbo. I have one and get rid of those feeling with it. You will be off-road and not endangering any one except yourself and the Squirrels! :joke:
This past summer, I took my flashed RT to Canada for the purpose to get a Dyno test, figure out the speed restrictions and solve the gearing change. In my short time there I was 0 for 3 in those goals as I was on a vacation and didn't want my only ride tied up. We learned a current F3S or Daytona is needed for the project going forward to conduct reliable Dyno testing.
In follow up conversation with Monster Fuel is where the splice comment came up. Blinding the rear wheel works with the splice for a gearing change but the rear wheel is no longer part of the ABS. So to me that does not seem like a solution??
JCThorne posted his flash test results and he showed a 20 hp gain on his F3S. I can't find that post??
To be honest, my 2016 totally stock F3L WITH the 89 tooth sprocket did not show ANY net gain in my time and distance testing and only modest gains when I tested exhaust combinations. This is being mirrored in comments from F3S owners. The flash was designed around the 79 tooth gearing and the 89 tooth is not befitting from the flash as much as the RT OBVIOUSLY DOES. 25' of rubber and 0 to 68 mph is proven on the video.
In follow up conversations about this issue with Monster Fuel they, implied the 89 tooth gearing is being addressed with a different flash option.
I AGREE WITH YOU, since they have a full time Daytona test bike, a Dyno shop less than an hour away, it's time to poop or get off the potty.
Dennis
I resemble that. Both snowblowers resemble much larger units ( in snow throwing capability ) A slight governor mod and rubber flaps added to the thrower made a HUGE difference.
Now to the :spyder2:, haven't modded the motor yet but that is the question of this thread....................
Lew L
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...5-mph/2516457/
Bill Warner (Fish Farmer) was one of the nicest quiet type guy--no ego problem--that I've ever met.. Running on the Loring Air Force decommissioned B2 bomber airstrip in N. Maine. 1/2" pavement difference in the 4 mile runway was perfect for land speed racing. Bill hit 311 mph in the 1.5 mi run but was trying hard for 300 mph in the one mile. 292 mph was his best on a prior run. Personally I loose the ability to process data above 175-190 mph--tach-shift points-track bad spots--cross wind bursts. It enables me to understand that most Formula 1 racers have Mensa IQ ratings. Land Speed Racing is a very high risk sport. Lucky for us the Spyders can't reach 50% of that speed.
Darrell
Sean,
I've hear a just a few mods, not sure about the 1300's though. You can obviously change the air intake, exhaust, cat delete. In the earlier days some even played around with a juice box and PCV, not sure if it was an auto tune. But, whenever someone tried to find out the "actual" gains I never have read here that someone was able to Dyno to verify this Hp/Tq gains. So even with the ECU flash, which seems to be the current wave for increasing "hp/tq" until there is an actual way to Dyno, we wont know what the actual "performance" gains are.
Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.
I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.
I actually think it would be fairly easy. Locate the 3 wheel sensor wires going into the ECM label & cut the 3 wires---install a 3 wire into 1 wire pigtail jumpers with push on connectors for easy return to normal after the test.. Connect the rear sensor input & both of the floating front wheel input sensor wires & connect the output lead of the 3 to 1 input to the rear senor input on the ECM. Now the front wheels could be stationary--lifted up same height as rear on makeshift ramp or jack stands. That's the whole process. Reconnect cut wires with push on terminals back to original location after the dyno is finished. I'll find & prep the ECM wires & run a dyno this Spring-Summer.
Darrell
For clarification. I agree with the digital signal bit to VSS. However, it is not part of the CANbus. CANbus is the network for communicating among the various processors on the bike, i.e., VSS to TCM to ECM to cluster, and so on. It is not for the input signals to those processors.
If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem?? Just my opinion from spending 20 yrs as an I/O & Mainframe National/International Tech Support Specialist. I just about lived on an airplane for 7 yrs repairing systems in 40+ States & England, France, Germany, & Mexico City. Technology units have really shrank in size but most of the concepts are fairly similar on the output side. I don't miss riding the NYC subway at 2AM-3AM with the weirdo's. When time, weather, & family health issues clear up I will locate the speed sensor wires entering the ECU--cut & splice & go for a ride & let you know the results of my theory. Currently it is 25 degrees in Westerville OH Worse case if the front wheel sensors attach to more than the ECU I will remove the front wheel sensors & splice all 3 sensor wires together at the ECU in lieu of just letting the front wheel sensor wires as an open floating. The ECM maybe sending different signal.wires to the Trans & VSS.
Darrell
Had read on other forums that this was one way to disable anti-slip on older machines that did not have provisions to disable traction control.... (After the mod, traction control reporting 0 slip, all input reading off the front wheel.) But even without mod (me simply disabling t/c on my SE machine) there's not really enough power during warm weather (with sticky tires) to reliably get the tire loose/counter-steer. (So close, but not quite there. And I have no interest/won't hold the brake to build power from a stop, although that might work.)
I hope someone comes up with a good flash for my machine that makes a difference. I'd be happy with 10 - 15% increase. That would make all the difference with traction control disabled. As it is now, 2/3 of the time I accelerate from a stop (even turning onto the road) with traction disabled in warm weather: Instead of the expected slip & counter-steer, all I'm left with is my inside front tire 6 inches off the ground. Definitely not the desired results!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Hi,
I agree with some of the previous "speakers", I came from the quad/ATV community before I bought my first Spyder and there it was a natural thing to tune it in every possible way, air filter, exhaust and software :)
In the Spyder community on the other hand there is no one even talking about tuning and no one seem to do it, strange.....
Powercommander 5 is available for Spyder but not for all year models, and I used that together with autotune on my Yamaha Raptor 700 which gave quite a lot extra power.
There is also a swedish company called Vtech/Maptun which has specialized in upgrades for "power sport" vehicles lika snowmobiles (Skidoo), water crafts (Seadoo) and also Spyder“s and ATV“s.
When I talked to them they told me they have sold a lot of Spyder software upgrades especially to the US.
Their software stage 2 together with muffler replacement pipe (cat delete) gives a raise from 115 hp to 140 hp :)
https://www.maptunpowersports.com/tu...er-f3-s-115-hp
I find it amazing that I'm able to buy a 2018 Ford Mustang GT with almost all the luxury add on features for under $50K--base Mustang GT with standard luxury for $40 K range--not to far off from the loaded Spyder. The base GT 460 HP hits 0-60 in 4 sec or less--seats 4--air conditioned-stability features on the upper end the Spyder hasn't even thought of--10 spd automatic trans, 3 yr standard warranty. Makes no logic to me.
Darrell
I believe we can thank the high end motorcycle market, led by HD for the high prices. The market appears ready to pay $20-$35K for high end motorcycles. Conversely high end snowmobiles and seamobiles go for $15K. Volume also contributes I guess.
The other thing is, with the Mustang you can turn off most of the safety features if and when you want. They've even gone the other way and added things like variable exhaust and line lock. I guess Ford doesn't believe all its customers are idiots who will injure or kill themselves without muting power through s/w control.