HELP! 2008 GS SM5 Starter not turning over despite excellent battery voltage

Went to start the Spyder after a lengthy period of inactivity. Only 8K miles on this machine. Never a lick of trouble with this machine. Always on Battery Tender, fresh fuel, checked voltage (12.8), etc. Key on, fuel pump cycles, safety message displays. Push M button on dash, hit starter.

** Fuel pump runs again(!), starter DOESN'T make a sound, fuel pump stops, safety message displays all over again. Everything checkable checks normal electrically. Again, starter doesn't click, turn, nothing, no sound at all. Lights, horn, all fully functional. No blown fuses.


I'm thinking starter relay, but need to know:

Is this a common problem?

Where is the starter relay so I can check/replace?

And, of course, if my diagnosis is wrong, what do I check next?

TIA

Does anybody offer an aftermarket OBD code reader for these things?

Connections at the battery been checked?

Check all connection's, kill switch, foot on the brake, put it in neutral!!!Good luck

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Originally Posted by John in PA

I'm thinking starter relay, but need to know:

Is this a common problem?

Not starting, yes. Starter relay causing it, NO.

And, of course, if my diagnosis is wrong, what do I check next?

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Given the experiences of others, you should check the main battery cables at both ends for a good solid clean connection.
Then you should check the battery voltage at the moment that the starter tries to run.

Your symptoms indicate that the battery voltage to ALL THE SYSTEMS is falling off when the starter tries to run.

The most likely causes of that.....after a bad battery and loose cables are:
Shorted starter
Hydraulic lock because of liquid in one or more cylinders.

Check those cables.

Finally got around to checking cables. Everything clean and tight on the battery. Also the 4 leads on the starting solenoid (?) (small silver cannister with 2 heavy leads and two light weight leads bolted to left side of frame ahead of battery under seat?) are bright and tight. I actually retightened everything after cleaning. Still the same results. There is no appreciable voltage drop at the battery when I hit the starter.

Again, after clearing the safety message, then hitting the starter, fuel pump cycles for 5 seconds, display resets to safety message after a 5 second cycle of the fuel pump. The starter does not make any attempt to run at all, so I doubt there's a compression lock in a cylinder. No sound whatsoever but the brief cycle of the fuel pump.

I'm wondering about the starter solenoid, but not sure how to test. Upstream of that, pretty much the computer(??)

I looked at the shop manual at the procedures involved in testing the solenoid. YIKES! It would be a world easier to just replace the solenoid. I have one on order.

First off, you need to attach a voltmeter to the battery terminals and see what voltage is at rest and when you hit the starter. On the terminals and not the cables. If you have 12 plus volts at rest and you hit the starter and it drops below 10.4, you have a battery problem. If it does not drop at all and you recycle the message, then you have a connection problem somewhere. If not at the battery, it could be the ground on the engine itself. Try this first and then respond back.

if your not even getting a clicking from the starter relay then power is not getting there or it's toast. could be you have a faulty kill switch:dontknow:

No where did I read that you checked the main ground. It is the negative jumpstart post under the seat. Is it tight? Do not loosen it. It is a pain to retighten.

If the battery voltage does not drop to below 10V. The display will not reboot as you describe unless there is bad connection.

Voltage was checked at battery terminals during starting attempts. Never dropped below 12.2V. Positive and negative connections at solenoid and at ground post are clean and tight. Starter switch is good as fuel pump cycles every time it is pushed. I wondered if the solenoid plunger is frozen up.

Spyder lives in a climate controlled garage with Italian motorcycles. Maybe it caught something from them... ;-)

I have a good bit of the Tupperware off the trike, but haven't seen the starter (supposed to be under the right upper Tupper, but I didn't see it...) and no clue where the main engine ground is, though I *guess* it's near the starter(?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John in PA

Went to start the Spyder after a lengthy period of inactivity. Only 8K miles on this machine. Never a lick of trouble with this machine. Always on Battery Tender, fresh fuel, checked voltage (12.8), etc. Key on, fuel pump cycles, safety message displays. Push M button on dash, hit starter.

** Fuel pump runs again(!), starter DOESN'T make a sound, fuel pump stops, safety message displays all over again. Everything checkable checks normal electrically. Again, starter doesn't click, turn, nothing, no sound at all. Lights, horn, all fully functional. No blown fuses.


I'm thinking starter relay, but need to know:

Is this a common problem?

Where is the starter relay so I can check/replace?

And, of course, if my diagnosis is wrong, what do I check next?

TIA

Does anybody offer an aftermarket OBD code reader for these things?

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Hello,
I'll add my two cents worth. If you haven't already, check the fuses under the frunk lid and the seat.
For the fuses under the seat, look at fuse #5. It is a 10 amp fuse that controls the starter solenoid amongst other things. Pull it out and check it with an ohm meter if you are able to. Make sure the fuse blades are clean when reinserting the fuse.
Also, some of the early spyders had issues with the relays that are also located in the fuse box under the frunk lid. Sometimes issues were resolved by simply pulling the relays out one at a time and reseating them. This action would clean oxidation from the electrical contact pins under the relay. If you have a small stainless steel brush you can brush the pins clean or you can use 220 or 400 grit sandpaper to clean them.
As for the fuses under the seat, those are your main fuses for the DPS, VSS, headlights, etc. I would give those a inspection one at a time as well.
I hope this helps you out.

Thanks for all suggestions. I double checked fuse #5 in the front fuse box. It's fine. I suspected so, as the same fuse runs the fuel pump, which is running just fine. I replaced the starting solenoid today, as well as the battery, even though all battery voltages measured fine. No joy yet. Same deal, clear safety code, hit starter, fuel pump runs 5 seconds, safety message resets, not even a whisper out of the starter.

If the kill switch was bad, would the fuel pump run anyway?

Spyder has less than 5K miles on it and has always been kept in a heated garage, on a battery tender.

I can see the starter on the parts diagrams and in the service manual (on the bench) but where is it on the machine? I've got about 2/3 of the Tupperware off, no clear view of the starter. In the manuals it looks like it would be up front below the front cylinder.

John, where was it parked during the lengthy down time? Thinking it may have had unwelcome guests(little guys with beady eyes). Certainly wouldn't be a first. A close inspection of any wiring you can get to may be in order.

Stored in a very tight temperature controlled garage. Never seen any evidence of rodents in the bike shop. No mouse nests, etc in the machine.

Tested the Kill switch. Appears to function normally, that is, fuel pump runs during starting attempts with switch "on", does not run with switch "off." On that basis I'd say it appears to function.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John in PA

Went to start the Spyder after a lengthy period of inactivity. Only 8K miles on this machine. Never a lick of trouble with this machine. Always on Battery Tender, fresh fuel, checked voltage (12.8), etc. Key on, fuel pump cycles, safety message displays. Push M button on dash, hit starter.

** Fuel pump runs again(!), starter DOESN'T make a sound, fuel pump stops, safety message displays all over again. Everything checkable checks normal electrically. Again, starter doesn't click, turn, nothing, no sound at all. Lights, horn, all fully functional. No blown fuses.

I'm thinking starter relay, but need to know:

Is this a common problem?

Where is the starter relay so I can check/replace?

And, of course, if my diagnosis is wrong, what do I check next?

TIA

Does anybody offer an aftermarket OBD code reader for these things?

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Do you have a jump pack or another healthy motorcycle battery to jump the Spyder with? If so, I'd try jumping it to see if it starts.

The plot thickens. I've got the trike running, but in an odd fashion. I went through the code reading procedure found in the shop manual involving setting the display in Hr mode, then depressing both headlight override and M button , holding them down, and pressing hi-beam flasher 5 times. No codes appeared, but engine started perfectly normally immediately after. I stopped and restarted it quite a few times, then took the trike for a brief ride. Everything normal, also stopped and started several times after the ride, IF I RESTART WITHIN THE TIME BEFORE THE SAFETY MESSAGE DISPLAYS AGAIN (5 minutes or so??) Perfectly fine.

BUT, if I let the bike sit long enough for the safety message to display, it will not start unless I depress both the headlight override, and the M button together AFTER clearing the safety message. If I do NOT press both buttons after clearing safety message, fuel pump cycles but bike makes NO effort to start.

Demonic possession?????????

Sounds like computer problems!? :| Or wires shorting somewhere... somehow!?
Re-flash!?!?!?!?...

Weird... take it to a dealer I would say.

A dealer would have no clue but they have access to BRP tech help. I would demonstrate the problem to the dealer and insist they get the answer from BRP before they attempt to 'fix' it.

Good tip. I might even call BRP tech myself just to get an idea.

I spoke to the tech at the dealer, a good guy with several years experience. He's never encountered a Spyder doing what mine is doing. I'll take it to them next week. He'll contact BRP for advice before proceeding.

Basically my current starting procedure is clear safety message, cycle display to Hr, hold down headlight override and press M switch, release and press starter. VROOOM! Anything less than that and the fuel pump cycles and safety message resets, ad infinitum Once bike has started, it will restart normally till off long enough for safety message to reset, then it's back to goofy mode again.

I'll report back what BRP and the tech find out.

Wow... and I'm just ticked about the safety message to clear! Amazing you figured out BRP's "new" starting procedure. You didn't say though if it only worked during full moons, when wearing a blue hat and red socks. Glad you can make it go and hope BRP has some answers for you. I'll be watching as I'm riding a 2010 RS.

I have a feeling they might do a reflash on it.

Yeah, the tech said there's really not a way to reflash. Hope he's mistaken and it's just a procedure they haven't had to do yet. I'd hate to guess at the cost of a new ECU...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John in PA

Yeah, the tech said there's really not a way to reflash. Hope he's mistaken and it's just a procedure they haven't had to do yet. I'd hate to guess at the cost of a new ECU...

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Oh damn... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John in PA

I spoke to the tech at the dealer, a good guy with several years experience. He's never encountered a Spyder doing what mine is doing. I'll take it to them next week. He'll contact BRP for advice before proceeding.

Basically my current starting procedure is clear safety message, cycle display to Hr, hold down headlight override and press M switch, release and press starter. VROOOM! Anything less than that and the fuel pump cycles and safety message resets, ad infinitum Once bike has started, it will restart normally till off long enough for safety message to reset, then it's back to goofy mode again.

I'll report back what BRP and the tech find out.

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What I would do is ride the crap out of the trike, for an hour or more at least on the freeway, backroads, in stop and start traffic, etc. etc. Maybe this will re-educate the ECU about being a member of Spyder society? Make it relearn. It might cure the problem. It sounds like, while being stored, the ECU might have gotten a spike in the elctrical system..from the battery tender maybe?

this probably right off the mark but would the dss for the security key be the cause.somehow timing out after key on.do you have another key to try.