Rear brake pad change caution

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04-28-2018, 07:52 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Rear brake pad change caution

When I took my rear tire off last week to change it I of course ended up with the brake caliper hanging loose. For some reason before I could the new tire on the pads closed up. In trying to push them apart I saw the pads were badly worn out. One was almost paper thin. Rather than just wait and do nothing while I waited to get new pads I decided to just pull them out and put the caliper back in place. That way I could get the belt aligned and the axle nut torqued.

I got the new pads today so I took the caliper off the bracket to install the new pads. I tried using needle nose pliers to turn the piston back in. Yes, you do turn it clockwise. A couple of posts from years past say to turn CCW. That is wrong. I could hardly get the piston to turn so to try to free it up I pulled on the parking brake lever. The service manual says to turn the parking brake lever to retract the piston. Oops! The piston all of a sudden got pushed almost all the way out of the cylinder. I could not for the life of me get the piston to start retracting by turning.

What I believe happened is that with the pads worn down to almost nothing the automatic adjustment had turned the adjusting shaft so much the piston was about to come off of it. The little extra turn when I moved the parking brake lever was enough to turn it off. I cobbled up a tool to turn the piston and still I couldn't get it to catch and start retracting. As a last resort I disconnected the brake line and put the caliper in the vise. With no hydraulic pressure on the piston, and working the parking lever I finally got it to catch and retract. It only takes about 3 or 4 turns to seat it all the way.

So, be warned. If your pads are totally worn down be careful when trying to turn the piston in. It will be close to coming off the adjuster shaft. If it does, the air in your garage will turn blue very quickly!

Now, any suggestions about how to most easily bleed the rear brake line will be appreciated! :thumbup:
04-28-2018, 08:04 PM
hypurone

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

Now, any suggestions about how to most easily bleed the rear brake line will be appreciated! :thumbup:

Turn the caliper over so the bleeder is pointing upward. Insert something in between the pads to prevent the piston from moving and bleed as you normally would.... :thumbup:
04-29-2018, 12:13 AM
Chupaca

Let's see...

Seeing as your removed the hose and caliper altogether... reassemble add fluid pump the pedal and bleed at the hose connections first then repump and bleed at the bleeder nut. If you have a vacuum pump goes a lot faster...:thumbup:
04-29-2018, 06:43 AM
Little Blue

Rear Brake pads

Wow, thanks for the TIP. Might go ahead and change/bleed the total brake system. :thumbup: I would look at the Front pads too.
04-29-2018, 09:51 AM
11rtLTD

Rear brake pads

I have a 2011 RT SE5, I too replaced my rear brake pads yesterday.
I discovered that my caliper does NOT have a screw in type piston. I don't know if, somewhere, someone replaced the caliper with a non BRP until but was most definitely a push in or squeeze type piston.
Brakes working great now. Old pads were VERY thin.
Right at 25k on the bike.
Front pads are still at 50% or more.
04-29-2018, 12:45 PM
Papahoosh

What is the average miles before pads need changing?
04-29-2018, 03:42 PM
Mad Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papahoosh

What is the average miles before pads need changing?

It's all dependent on how and where you ride. Stop and go, city type riding= more wear, highway= less wear. Just like with a 4 wheeled vehicle. I have 18K on ours and they are getting close, but I do tow a 250Lb. trailer also. YMMV Mac:doorag:
04-29-2018, 04:10 PM
IGETAROUND

rear brakes 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11rtLTD

I have a 2011 RT SE5, I too replaced my rear brake pads yesterday.
I discovered that my caliper does NOT have a screw in type piston. I don't know if, somewhere, someone replaced the caliper with a non BRP until but was most definitely a push in or squeeze type piston.
Brakes working great now. Old pads were VERY thin.
Right at 25k on the bike.
Front pads are still at 50% or more.

The pre Bremo brakes just push in like a regular caliper does. I believe it was 2012 that they started using the bremo brakes alll around.

Al
04-29-2018, 04:28 PM
wallburl

rear brake piston caliber

;);) Turn the parking brake counter clockwise to return piston!! R Wallace Kansas,

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

When I took my rear tire off last week to change it I of course ended up with the brake caliper hanging loose. For some reason before I could the new tire on the pads closed up. In trying to push them apart I saw the pads were badly worn out. One was almost paper thin. Rather than just wait and do nothing while I waited to get new pads I decided to just pull them out and put the caliper back in place. That way I could get the belt aligned and the axle nut torqued.

I got the new pads today so I took the caliper off the bracket to install the new pads. I tried using needle nose pliers to turn the piston back in. Yes, you do turn it clockwise. A couple of posts from years past say to turn CCW. That is wrong. I could hardly get the piston to turn so to try to free it up I pulled on the parking brake lever. The service manual says to turn the parking brake lever to retract the piston. Oops! The piston all of a sudden got pushed almost all the way out of the cylinder. I could not for the life of me get the piston to start retracting by turning.

What I believe happened is that with the pads worn down to almost nothing the automatic adjustment had turned the adjusting shaft so much the piston was about to come off of it. The little extra turn when I moved the parking brake lever was enough to turn it off. I cobbled up a tool to turn the piston and still I couldn't get it to catch and start retracting. As a last resort I disconnected the brake line and put the caliper in the vise. With no hydraulic pressure on the piston, and working the parking lever I finally got it to catch and retract. It only takes about 3 or 4 turns to seat it all the way.

So, be warned. If your pads are totally worn down be careful when trying to turn the piston in. It will be close to coming off the adjuster shaft. If it does, the air in your garage will turn blue very quickly!

Now, any suggestions about how to most easily bleed the rear brake line will be appreciated! :thumbup:
04-29-2018, 08:45 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallburl

;);) Turn the parking brake counter clockwise to return piston!! R Wallace Kansas,

That's what I thought would do, but it didn't work! The parking brake lever would not turn CCW. It is stopped solidly by some sort of latch or ratchet inside the cylinder. I looked for a diagram that shows how the brake innards are assembled but came up empty.

What is confusing is the service manual says to turn the parking brake lever to retract the piston. But it doesn't say which direction.

I decided to do another Google search and found this page about how to rebuild a Brembo caliper. It looks to be basically the same as the Spyder brake. https://wiki.seloc.org/a/How_to_Rebu...Brembo_Caliper

This pic is part of the instructions. It shows the internal assembly minus the piston.

As you can see it's a right hand thread on the adjuster shaft. That means you would need to turn the parking brake lever CW to retract the piston. I still can't get my head around how turning the parking brake lever CW pushes the piston to lock the pads onto the rotor. That is somehow done by a plate with three balls pushing against the piece in the pic, but what exactly causes the disk to rotate and snug up the piston as the pads wear I can't figure out.
05-02-2018, 08:18 PM
safecracker

2008 to 2012 do not need to turn. I have change rear pads every summer. I will be putting on my 6th rear brake pads in a few days. Front brakes are original and they are half worn out. I have 54,000 miles on my Spyder. Bruce
05-02-2018, 08:35 PM
cptjam

Odd

I did a set of rear brake pads today. I admit, Ann had to hold the caliper while I pushed and turned clockwise, but the piston went in all the way. Took 20 minutes, tops!
05-02-2018, 10:48 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjam

I did a set of rear brake pads today. I admit, Ann had to hold the caliper while I pushed and turned clockwise, but the piston went in all the way. Took 20 minutes, tops!

I suspect the dealers do that a lot. I just could not figure out a way to hold the caliper solid enough to push the piston back in against the spring and turn it at the same time. Times like that is when I need a strong 25 yo buddy close by to help. All my available neighbors are old farts, like me! :roflblack:
05-03-2018, 08:29 AM
larryd

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjam

I did a set of rear brake pads today. I admit, Ann had to hold the caliper while I pushed and turned clockwise, but the piston went in all the way. Took 20 minutes, tops!

cptjam, if I understand YOU correctly, YOU TURN the PISTON, NOT the parking brake lever like IdahoMtmSpyder referred to in his post #10???????
05-03-2018, 09:15 AM
Roadster Renovations

Auto Zone has a loan a tool program. This turns and presses at the same time.

https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tool...ear/298604_0_0

Harbor Freight also sells the same kit a little cheaper.
05-03-2018, 10:30 AM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations

Auto Zone has a loan a tool program. This turns and presses at the same time.

https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tool...ear/298604_0_0

Harbor Freight also sells the same kit a little cheaper.

I borrowed one from NAPA. None of the adapters fit!:banghead:
05-03-2018, 10:43 AM
Roadster Renovations

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

I borrowed one from NAPA. None of the adapters fit!:banghead:

Wonder if it was the same kit?
05-03-2018, 12:41 PM
M109Dreamer

Here is HF's for $50, I would wait till the 50% coupon comes out and get a set for $25. I need it for my new car anyways.
05-03-2018, 11:53 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster Renovations

Wonder if it was the same kit?

I wondered that too. There was one adapter that looked like the pins were the correct distance apart, but the pin diameter was too large for the piston holes.
05-04-2018, 09:12 AM
cptjam

Yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryd

cptjam, if I understand YOU correctly, YOU TURN the PISTON, NOT the parking brake lever like IdahoMtmSpyder referred to in his post #10???????

Correct. Use the tips of a 6” set of needle nose, push hard and twist!
05-04-2018, 01:12 PM
IdahoMtnSpyder

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjam

I did a set of rear brake pads today. I admit, Ann had to hold the caliper while I pushed and turned clockwise, but the piston went in all the way. Took 20 minutes, tops!

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryd

cptjam, if I understand YOU correctly, YOU TURN the PISTON, NOT the parking brake lever like IdahoMtmSpyder referred to in his post #10???????

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjam

Correct. Use the tips of a 6” set of needle nose, push hard and twist!

What's confusing are the instructions in the service manual.

I tried turning the PB shaft since I couldn't hold the needle nose pliers and push and turn them while trying to hold the caliper with the other hand. What I found is you can't rotate the parking brake CCW because it won't go, and the threads, according to the one picture of a Brembo brake I post above, are right hand threads. What I don't know is if you can actually turn it CW to retract the piston since that's the way the threads go. But according to the SM you can turn it. But turning CW is what sets the parking condition. Is the service manual wrong, incomplete, or are we missing something?

There's no question the easiest way is to turn the piston, CW only. Just be sure to not let it come out all the way before you retract it because it will fairly easily. And when the pads are worn close to nothing it doesn't take much to run it off the adjusting shaft and disengage the threads.

It really is pretty much a two person job if the piston doesn't turn freely right off the bat. Needle nose pliers work, but it can be a challenge to keep them firmly stuck in the piston holes while pushing and turning. In my case the piston apparently had come off the end of the adjusting screw so I was trying to push the piston back against the internal spring while trying to get the threads engaged. That's when I gave up and took it loose from the brake line and chucked it in the vise. Then it was easy!

I think I'll send a note to BRP asking about the procedure in the service manual.
07-03-2018, 05:26 PM
UtahPete

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

That's what I thought would do, but it didn't work! The parking brake lever would not turn CCW. It is stopped solidly by some sort of latch or ratchet inside the cylinder. I looked for a diagram that shows how the brake innards are assembled but came up empty.

What is confusing is the service manual says to turn the parking brake lever to retract the piston. But it doesn't say which direction.

I decided to do another Google search and found this page about how to rebuild a Brembo caliper. It looks to be basically the same as the Spyder brake. https://wiki.seloc.org/a/How_to_Rebu...Brembo_Caliper

This pic is part of the instructions. It shows the internal assembly minus the piston.

As you can see it's a right hand thread on the adjuster shaft. That means you would need to turn the parking brake lever CW to retract the piston. I still can't get my head around how turning the parking brake lever CW pushes the piston to lock the pads onto the rotor. That is somehow done by a plate with three balls pushing against the piece in the pic, but what exactly causes the disk to rotate and snug up the piston as the pads wear I can't figure out.

Helpful, thanks.
11-29-2019, 06:49 PM
AbNormy

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder

I borrowed one from NAPA. None of the adapters fit!:banghead:

So the HF kit likely wouldn't work on RT brembo calipers? have to find a young neighbor to hold my caliper looks like
12-01-2019, 08:52 AM
jcthorne

This thread is all kinds of mixed up with many comments being directed at 2013+ Brembo calipers but actually applying to the older chinese BRP calipers.

The older calipers you need to turn the parking brake lever shaft. The newer calipers you need to turn the piston.

BajaRon sells a tool for the newer caliper piston that makes turning it in much easier. The off the shelf brake tool kits do not have an adaptor that fits the Brembo powersports caliper.
12-01-2019, 09:12 AM
IdahoMtnSpyder

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcthorne

The older calipers you need to turn the parking brake lever shaft. The newer calipers you need to turn the piston.

That clears things up. As I remember when I did mine the 2014 service manual has a comment about turning the parking brake lever. Must have been a left over instruction from earlier manuals. Not the only time old info got left in newer manuals.