Does 2014 Spyder RT Need to be started Periodicly when Storing in Cold Garage

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01-10-2015, 05:14 PM
msbluebells

Does 2014 Spyder RT Need to be started Periodicly when Storing in Cold Garage

Hi Fellow Spyder Lovers - We are new to owning a Spyder and we are storing the Spyder for the winter in the garage (last couple days near zero F). We have a trickle charger to keep the battery charge topped off and for a while every two weeks we would go and start the Spyder up- just to warm up and lubricate all the parts. But a few weeks back we started thinking that it might not be necessary with the newer bikes. Any thoughts pro or con? Thanks a bunch! I can't wait for the warmer weather to start puttering the Spyder around!!!
01-10-2015, 05:19 PM
Gray Ghost

You are better off running a battery maintainer, not a trickle charger, and not running the bike. Just starting the bike and letting it idle for awhile can cause more problems in the long run. Do use some kind of stabilizer for the ethanol fuel when storing the bike.
01-10-2015, 05:22 PM
SpyderFun

Not at all....provided you 1.) added fuel stabilizer and ran you bike for about 5-10 mins to make sure it made its way to your injectors. And 2.) have it connected to a battery tender to keep your battery fully charged! I have a 2010 and have never had an issue starting it up in the spring and have the OEM battery still in it.

If you do not have a battery tender, you may want to start it up every now and then. Only problem is it takes a lot out of the battery to initialize the start and if you do not allow sufficient time for the battery to "recharge" itself from starting, it may cause you a problem later on down the road.

Hope this helps!
01-10-2015, 05:26 PM
msbluebells

Thanks! Any Recommendations on Battery Maintainer or Stabilzer for Fuel

Hi-- We can stop at the auto parts store tomorrow. Any recommendations on Battery Maintainer or Fuel Stabilizer, Our dealer sold us the trickle charger. Many Thanks!!!!
01-10-2015, 05:53 PM
cyclekid58

Battery Tender

Quote:

Originally Posted by msbluebells

Hi-- We can stop at the auto parts store tomorrow. Any recommendations on Battery Maintainer or Fuel Stabilizer, Our dealer sold us the trickle charger. Many Thanks!!!!

Battery Tender Jr is recommended and through amazon is and adapter that plugs into the tender plug with a cigarette lighter plug to plug into your power outlet in the trunk or frunk provided you switch fuse 6 to position to make the outlet direct to the battery. That way you don't have to wire in to the battery. This is only for the 2013 or 2014 models. I just bought both the tender and adapter from Amazon.
01-10-2015, 06:19 PM
SpyderFun

Quote:

Originally Posted by msbluebells

Hi-- We can stop at the auto parts store tomorrow. Any recommendations on Battery Maintainer or Fuel Stabilizer, Our dealer sold us the trickle charger. Many Thanks!!!!

Your dealer sold you a trickle charger appears to have your battery issue covered. I have used Sta-Bil in my system because it comes with an easy "squeeze to measure" bottle.
01-10-2015, 06:19 PM
ARtraveler

Scotty: our premier expert on the mechanics of the :spyder2: recommends NOT starting the :ani29: during the winter hibernation period. It needs to be run and put through the paces for a few miles to actually get it warmed up properly.

I add fuel stabilizer (Stabil) as directed to both :spyder2:'s, hook them up to the charger (Battery Tender Jr.), and forget about them until Spring. Here, the hibernation is from Oct-March most years.

They usually start on the first try. I do run them mileage wise to burn up the old fuel and get fresh fuel in the tanks asap.
01-10-2015, 06:29 PM
robmorg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

You are better off running a battery maintainer, not a trickle charger, and not running the bike. Just starting the bike and letting it idle for awhile can cause more problems in the long run. Do use some kind of stabilizer for the ethanol fuel when storing the bike.

:agree: You do NOT want to start the bike and just let it idle. The reason is this.... One byproduct of all internal combustion engines is water. Under normal operating temperature, the water vaporizes and is dissipated with the rest of the exhaust. Just starting the bike and letting it idle will NOT get it to normal operating temperature. In that case moisture can remain inside the engine block and corrode internal parts of the engine. This is true of all internal combustion engines, whether they run on gasoline, diesel fuel, or aviation fuel.

Bottom Line: You should never start any internal combustion engine, and then let it sit for long periods of time after that, UNLESS you make sure that you take it up to normal operating temperature for several minutes.
01-10-2015, 08:56 PM
Chupaca

There you go...!!

also depends on where you are storing the roadster. If you should want to start it and run it up to operating temp, a closed garage is not the place to do it. So if you take outside to do this...:cus: might as well bundle up and go for a ride....:thumbup:
01-10-2015, 09:03 PM
SpyderFun

Actually, the required RPM necessary for maintaining a positive charge on the electrical system is 4k due to it being a PMG type system. This is why starting and only idling it is a bad idea. The new engine designed addressed this flaw.

-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk>
01-10-2015, 09:10 PM
BLUEKNIGHT911

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderFun

Not at all....provided you 1.) added fuel stabilizer and ran you bike for about 5-10 mins to make sure it made its way to your injectors. And 2.) have it connected to a battery tender to keep your battery fully charged! I have a 2010 and have never had an issue starting it up in the spring and have the OEM battery still in it.

If you do not have a battery tender, you may want to start it up every now and then. Only problem is it takes a lot out of the battery to initialize the start and if you do not allow sufficient time for the battery to "recharge" itself from starting, it may cause you a problem later on down the road.

Hope this helps!

DO NOT FOLLOW THE ABOVE ADVICE IT'S INCORRECT.......IT WILL CAUSE MOISTURE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES ..................AND OTHERS HERE WILL AGREE......Mike :thumbup:
01-10-2015, 09:44 PM
SpyderFun

Moisture is not as big of a problem as draining your battery. New hi-tech alloys used in todays engines combined with a good quality oil does a good job maintaining lubrication and eliminating the start of corrosion.

Moisture is removed due to higher engine temps and internal engine pressure which is something idling will not likely accomplish. Using a battery tender that cycles is the best method. 2nd best would be to totally disconnect it to prevent any electron flow provided you are comfortable with doing that.

The Rotax engine has its roots in aviation meaning it has higher tolerances required to be FAA certified - not that this engine is FAA certified but the engineers are likely the same ones who are use to designing around that standard. Might explain its higher RPM limit.

But hey, my advice is only based on my 30-years of aviation experience as a mechanic, inspector and instructor on aircraft ranging from Cessna 172 to Boeing 777. I cannot recall personally finding any reciprocating engine cylinders that were "corroded" due to simply starting them up and not running them at power.

-Mike
<Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk>
01-10-2015, 10:48 PM
RTJERRY

Fuel stabilizer and batt maintainer

On the 14 RT real easy access to the battery in the drunk. Attach the quick disconnect leads of the maintainer and you're good to go next winter too.
01-10-2015, 11:19 PM
JayBros

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Mann

On the 14 RT real easy access to the battery in the drunk. Attach the quick disconnect leads of the maintainer and you're good to go next winter too.

+1! and with the pigtail and proper portable compressor you have a ready hookup for roadside emergency.
01-22-2015, 09:20 AM
bronzeflex42

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

DO NOT FOLLOW THE ABOVE ADVICE IT'S INCORRECT.......IT WILL CAUSE MOISTURE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES ..................AND OTHERS HERE WILL AGREE......Mike :thumbup:

Thanks Mike, I've been doing the idle thing to:lecturef_smilie:. I thought since the temp gauge was reading normal, it was good and hot:dontknow:. Did not know about moisture build up that could be bad on the engine, which requires you to ride the bike instead of idling it, but you live and learn right, thanks for the advice. :)
01-22-2015, 09:35 AM
Highwayman2013

Yes, I agree with Mike. Fill with fuel and put a fuel stabilizer in the fuel, park it out of the way, hook up the battery maintainer, leave it alone.
01-22-2015, 10:01 AM
BajaRon

Long periods of idle are not good for any engine. You need to bring the engine up to operating temperature by riding it. And as others have said, idle will not put much (if any) charge back into your Spyder battery.

I know that people in cold country go out, start their car/whatever and let it idle while they return to the house to finish getting ready. When they get out to the car the coolant is warmed up and the interior of the vehicle is comfy. Great for you but very bad for the engine. It is much better to start the vehicle, let it idle for 30 seconds or so to be sure you have lubricant to every part of the engine and then drive gently until you reach operating temperature.

On the other hand, I spent 30 years jumping into a cold fire truck, starting it up and mashing the throttle to the floor! But then I was getting paid to do that and the repair bills didn't come out of my pocket.
01-22-2015, 10:07 PM
SpyderFun

Corrosion Theory Not Supported by BRP Documentation

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911

DO NOT FOLLOW THE ABOVE ADVICE IT'S INCORRECT.......IT WILL CAUSE MOISTURE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES ..................AND OTHERS HERE WILL AGREE......Mike :thumbup:

This is only a personal opinion and is not based in any BRP documentation as being a fact as applied to the BRP Spyder and its engine. Without documentation by the manufacturer, the only way left to support this opinion is to do exactly what is claimed you should not due and then look for supporting evidence of this belief.

In other words, start and stop your engine during winterization. Then come springtime disassemble the engine and visually inspect it for the claimed corrosion that starting and stopping causes during said period of storage. Finally, mic out the engine to check for excessive wear resulting from the starting and stopping during storage. This has, to my knowledge, never been done by any owner - but I remain open-minded. If there is no evidence to support the opinion, then the claim is proven false by lack of evidence. Its a simple as that.

The common practice and belief of “…not letting your engine get above operating idle temp causes corrosion…” comes from old school engines that used old school oil and PCV valves. The BRP engine is a hi-tech engine made with superior manufacturing process and materials that uses hi-tech oil which eliminates this old school theory. Can the engine become corrode? Sure, but not the way warned about.

Let’s Put “My Opinion” To a Test…..
MY OPINION: Starting and stopping your engine causes a “net charge loss” of your battery because the 998 engine uses a PMG for its charging system (FYI... PMG explained: http://www.electrosport.com/technica...g-system-works).

Owner Complaints: Initial Spyder owners were complaining of experiencing a “dead battery” even after periods of operation (do a site search on this topic). Why? Likely caused by operating the Spyder at a low RPM - an RPM that they were likely use to operating their previous rides at (i.e. less than 4k) and not regularly using a battery tender.

BRP Supportive Evidence: The 998 engine uses a PMG which, if the above article was read, is not efficient at charging during operation at low RPMs - like idle. The Maintenance Manual for the 2010 - 2011 states (ref: Electrical System - Charging System - Inspection - “Charging System Output (DC Voltage Output Test)”) that to test the electrical charging system is to initially test the battery has a static charge of 12.6vdc (also ref: “Battery Voltage Test (No Load)”). Then check for 13 - 14 vdc and 10A at 4k RPM. The “Battery Load Test (While Cranking)” states the battery should not drop below 10vdc.

"My Opinion" Proved: Simply put, 13vdc @ 4k RPM is higher than the static of 12.6 making a positive charge on the battery at ~10A. Any RPM less than 4k does not guarantee a positive charge back to the battery to replenish the loss occurred during starting which could lead to a “net charge loss” on your battery - especially if farkles have been added. This is why the routine use of a battery tender is strongly suggested by other owners and myself.

"Corrosion" Opinion Disproved by BRP:

BRP DOES NOT STATE, "THAT STARTING AND STOPPING THE ENGINE DURING PERIODS OF STORAGE CAN OR WILL CAUSE CORROSION" (ref: Maintenance - “Storage Procedure (Winterization)”)

In summary, personal opinions are fine as long as they can be supported by evidence by the manufacturer or by the professional training and certification the individual received in a similar discipline.

I hope this helps explain “my opinion” and disprove the "corrosion theory" of others.
01-23-2015, 02:48 PM
ThreeWheels

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyderFun

Let’s Put “My Opinion” To a Test…..
MY OPINION: Starting and stopping your engine causes a “net charge loss” of your battery because the 998 engine uses a PMG for its charging system (FYI... PMG explained: http://www.electrosport.com/technica...g-system-works).

Owner Complaints: Initial Spyder owners were complaining of experiencing a “dead battery” even after periods of operation (do a site search on this topic). Why? Likely caused by operating the Spyder at a low RPM - an RPM that they were likely use to operating their previous rides at (i.e. less than 4k) and not regularly using a battery tender.

BRP Supportive Evidence: The 998 engine uses a PMG which, if the above article was read, is not efficient at charging during operation at low RPMs - like idle. The Maintenance Manual for the 2010 - 2011 states (ref: Electrical System - Charging System - Inspection - “Charging System Output (DC Voltage Output Test)”) that to test the electrical charging system is to initially test the battery has a static charge of 12.6vdc (also ref: “Battery Voltage Test (No Load)”). Then check for 13 - 14 vdc and 10A at 4k RPM. The “Battery Load Test (While Cranking)” states the battery should not drop below 10vdc.

"My Opinion" Proved: Simply put, 13vdc @ 4k RPM is higher than the static of 12.6 making a positive charge on the battery at ~10A. Any RPM less than 4k does not guarantee a positive charge back to the battery to replenish the loss occurred during starting which could lead to a “net charge loss” on your battery - especially if farkles have been added. This is why the routine use of a battery tender is strongly suggested by other owners and myself.

"Corrosion" Opinion Disproved by BRP:

BRP DOES NOT STATE, "THAT STARTING AND STOPPING THE ENGINE DURING PERIODS OF STORAGE CAN OR WILL CAUSE CORROSION" (ref: Maintenance - “Storage Procedure (Winterization)”)

In summary, personal opinions are fine as long as they can be supported by evidence by the manufacturer or by the professional training and certification the individual received in a similar discipline.

I hope this helps explain “my opinion” and disprove the "corrosion theory" of others.

Net Net, I agree with this guy. I run the Spyder and the Piaggio three or four times during the season and don't have any problems.
If they had a kill switch for the fuel pump, similar to the petcock on the old gas tanks, all this would go away.
You could then run the engine dry, and not have to worry about plugging of the fuel system over the winter.