Garage heat options

[Mazo EMS2]

I've been battin' around the idea of installing a heater in my garage. I have a few things I wanna work on with the Spyder this winter, but trying to do it in the cold sucks. I already have natural gas brought through a wall, so it wouldn't take much to do it. So I thought I'd ask what people use for heaters. I'd like to go "ventless" so I don't have to poke a hole in the wall. The space is about 600sq ft.

[Bob Denman]

Couldn't you get a natural gas furnace from a mobilehome, and just hook it up to blow hot air around inside the garage? it would take a minimal amount of ductwork (If any...).
The only downside, is that you'd probably have to vent it...

[cuznjohn]

i used a small colman propane heater, but you have to worry about the bike sweating

[wyliec]

There is what is called direct vent for high efficiency furnaces; but, there is no ventless. Any ventless would be a small space heater, like cuznjohn mentioned.

[Mazo EMS2]

I can get a 30,000BTU wall unit for about $200. Says it'll heat 1000sqft. It's ventless. Might be an option

https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/gas-kerosene-heaters/gas-wall-heaters/30-000-btu-dual-fuel-blue-flame-vent-free-wall-heater/p-1444431352164-c-6867.htm?tid=2305353895268874849

[Bob Denman]

If it runs off of a thermostat: it can't hurt to give it a try! :thumbup:

[blacklightning]

I can get a 30,000BTU wall unit for about $200. Says it'll heat 1000sqft. It's ventless. Might be an option

https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/gas-kerosene-heaters/gas-wall-heaters/30-000-btu-dual-fuel-blue-flame-vent-free-wall-heater/p-1444431352164-c-6867.htm?tid=2305353895268874849
They work great. I bought and intalled one for my mother-in-law. I have a small Mr. Heater that I use in my office. my office is only about 480 sf, but it works great.

[SpyderAnn01]

In one of our houses in Michigan we had heat in the garage. It worked so well that my step daughter, who didn't get a parking spot in the garage, would pull her car in, turn up the thermostat and let the snow melt. :banghead: The heater was there when we bought the house and I don't remember what it was exactly. Natural gas for sure though. Update: The boss said it was a wall mounted ventless unit.

I wish it was as easy to cool our garage as it was to heat that one.

[Motorcycledave]

I got mine at Northern Supply
it hangs on the wall and needs no outside vent
mine is propane but they also are made for natural gas
has a fan and thermastat controled , the local
fire dept inspected it and gave it the big ��
$189 shipped.

[oldguyinTX]

Great options if you have natural gas or (cheap) propane available. NG doesn't exist here, and getting a permit for either an above ground or buried tank is absolutely insane. Then, the price of the tank - typically 500 lbs which is a big tank and lots of $$, plus excavation if it gets buried, then the ongoing price of propane here, which is not cheap. For me, the only option just doesn't work, although I wish it would.

[ARtraveler]

Hanging unit as mentioned above good. We have natural gas here. Had one at my other home, run by thermostat. Probably best bet. Make sure your local codes allow it. Here, everything is supposed to be directly vented to the outside.

Have hot water floor heat here, powered by natural gas. I leave it at 50 degrees and it works fine.

[Highwayman2013]

I can get a 30,000BTU wall unit for about $200. Says it'll heat 1000sqft. It's ventless. Might be an option

https://www.menards.com/main/heating-cooling/gas-kerosene-heaters/gas-wall-heaters/30-000-btu-dual-fuel-blue-flame-vent-free-wall-heater/p-1444431352164-c-6867.htm?tid=2305353895268874849

That would work fine. I had a similar unit in my living room in Pa. No venting.

[DGoebel]

+1 I heated my last 1500 sqft shop with a ventless just like that on NG. Did add a Combination Smoke CO detector (which never once went off in 5 years of MN winters), kept the shop (computer service repair shop) at 68 degrees all winter. Barely noticed the change in NG usage except in Jan/Feb<G>. Seems the heater even had it's own o2 sensor which would shut the heater off if o2 got too low.

[Motorcycledave]

Because the one I have, hangs on the wall and does not require outside venting
it is not considered to be a permanent installed unit. however it works and looks like one
I run mine with a 25 gal propane tank $1.98 pr gal, and with daily use in the winter a tank will last about
2 months, if you are where it is super cold it would last about 1 month I am guessing.
I have been using mine for about 5 years and it works great, I start it up in the morning
it has a pilot light, so I just set the temp and away it goes fan comes on and off automaticly
it is perfect... go to their website and check it out.
If you email me I will send you pictures of mine.
mine has been inspected by the fire marshal here and he says it's good.
Dave
Stay Warm

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

One potential downside to an unvented heater is humidity. One of the products of combustion, especially natural gas, is water vapor. Run the heater long enough you'll have water dripping from everything in the garage that is the least bit cool. To counter that you'll need ventilation, which means a hole in the wall, or two even, one for fresh air and the other for exhaust, exactly what you are wanting to avoid!

Whatever you install make sure that any part of it that can act as an ignition source is at least 18" above the garage floor. That's to prevent igniting gasoline fumes that may be present, which is common in a garage. That's required by building and fire codes pretty much universally.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Great options if you have natural gas or (cheap) propane available. NG doesn't exist here, and getting a permit for either an above ground or buried tank is absolutely insane. Then, the price of the tank - typically 500 lbs which is a big tank and lots of $$, plus excavation if it gets buried, then the ongoing price of propane here, which is not cheap. For me, the only option just doesn't work, although I wish it would.
Go with a pellet stove. Cost of operation is similar to propane. I have one in my garage. Works great and makes for a nice toasty warm garage to work in.

[Bob Denman]

Pellet stoves will require daily attention...
That may not always be practical. nojoke

[5legsshort]

This is what I put in my 200 sq.ft. shed, so far so good. No fumes, no worries, but do have to cut a hole...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-7-500-BTU-115-Volt-Window-Air-Conditioner-with-Cool-Heat-and-Remote-LW8015HR/205588134

[jaherbst]

When I lived in Edina, MN I installed a Reznor gas heater in my garage. It was remotely controlled from inside the house. It hung from the ceiling and would heat up the entire garage in less than 10 minutes. Temps there in the winter were -20 to 30 degrees. Extremely happy with this setup and professional installation.

Jack

[Machinegunner]

If you use an unvented heater, you will have to maintain a warm temp otherwise if the garage gets cold there will be condensation. I use a direct vent unit heater hung from the ceiling. The best, in my opinion, is an infrared tube heater. It is hung and vented, but only heats the objects the rays shine on. You won't get condensation and you only need to turn it on when needed.

[Mazo EMS2]

I don't plan to use it all the time, only when I wanna work on something out there. I have no intention on trying to keep it warm.....just when I need it to be. I'm thinking I'll go with the wall unit and see what happens..Thanks for all the thoughts:thumbup:

[Navvet]

I just added Mr Cool DIY Ductless Mini-Split Heat Pump (w/ WiFi) in both my wife's 600 sq ft workshop and my 850 sq ft garage. 12K (1 ton) for her shop and 18K (1.5 ton) for mine.

These are great !!! Pre-charged linesets, just hook everything together, run power and turn them on. Set the temp on the thermostat and it stays there .... Plus you can't hear them running !!!

A small hole (4") is required in the wall for the lineset and the outside unit is small enough I mounted them on the wall.

I got mine from here and was able to get both units delivered for less than $2,000.

http://ingramswaterandair.com/mrcool-mrcool-series-c-45_124_4659_4661.html
(Admin - If posting this web address is a no-no, please delete the address. Tks)

[jcthorne]

Great options if you have natural gas or (cheap) propane available. NG doesn't exist here, and getting a permit for either an above ground or buried tank is absolutely insane. Then, the price of the tank - typically 500 lbs which is a big tank and lots of $$, plus excavation if it gets buried, then the ongoing price of propane here, which is not cheap. For me, the only option just doesn't work, although I wish it would.

IfNG

If NG is not available to you, consider a high efficiency mini split heat pump. They work well down to about zero deg F these days. FAR cheaper to run than straight electric resistance heat.

[ijon1]

I have a outdoor wood boiler that heats my house, my hot water, the attached garage then the water goes back to the boiler.

[wyliec]

IfNG

If NG is not available to you, consider a high efficiency mini split heat pump. They work well down to about zero deg F these days. FAR cheaper to run than straight electric resistance heat.

If you go that route, the ductless split heat pump would be a choice.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

IfNG

If NG is not available to you, consider a high efficiency mini split heat pump. They work well down to about zero deg F these days. FAR cheaper to run than straight electric resistance heat.
Not always. I have a Daikin system in my house with one unit in the garage. I seldom use the garage unit because it's only 9000 Btuh capacity and the heat pump is 36,000 Btuh. At low temperatures, like 0 to 15°F, if the garage unit only is running, which would be case most of the time I need it, the Coefficient of Performance of the heat pump drops down to close to 1 which is basically the same as straight electric resistance.

For dedicated system where a single indoor unit with the same rating as the heat pump is used, like a single system for the garage, the efficiency will be better.

[Rogue Hawk]

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/trekcreative/images/f/f2/TNG_Warp_Core2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100124044519

[JimVonBaden]

In one of our houses in Michigan we had heat in the garage. It worked so well that my step daughter, who didn't get a parking spot in the garage, would pull her car in, turn up the thermostat and let the snow melt. :banghead: The heater was there when we bought the house and I don't remember what it was exactly. Natural gas for sure though. Update: The boss said it was a wall mounted ventless unit.

I wish it was as easy to cool our garage as it was to heat that one.
I'm installing a Mini-Split system. Heat and cool in one unit, 110 volt, though 220V is better, and they come in a kit ready to install. It even comes charged. You can get an HVAC tech to do the vacuum for under $100, and have a system for under $800 that works great! Bare in mind that my garage is only 400 sq ft.

[jcthorne]

The single unit mini splits are available up to 36,000 BTU now. Even precharged DIY units.

[JimVonBaden]

The single unit mini splits are available up to 36,000 BTU now. Even precharged DIY units.
Awesome units, very popular in Europe and easy to install. Mine will require a 2-3" round hole in the wall for the lines and electrical.:thumbup:

[subdude17349]

I replaced my ventless gas wall heater and electric resistance heater with a mini-split. Works great.

Biggest issue with the natural gas blue flame heater was the moisture that it put in the air. Turn it on and 20 minutes later every single metal item in the garage was covered in condensation. Great for making things rust.....:banghead:

[jcthorne]

For dedicated system where a single indoor unit with the same rating as the heat pump is used, like a single system for the garage, the efficiency will be better.




I have no idea what you are trying to say here. But a heat pump is ALWAYS more efficient that straight electric. As the temp drops it can approach the same but will always be slightly above 1.0 The point at which it approaches 1.0 is part of the evaporator (outside unit) design. Some work well down to 20 below.

The DIY and mainstream inverter driven minisplits generally work well down to about zero.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If NG is not available to you, consider a high efficiency mini split heat pump. They work well down to about zero deg F these days. FAR cheaper to run than straight electric resistance heat.


Not always. I have a Daikin system in my house with one unit in the garage. I seldom use the garage unit because it's only 9000 Btuh capacity and the heat pump is 36,000 Btuh. At low temperatures, like 0 to 15°F, if the garage unit only is running, which would be case most of the time I need it, the Coefficient of Performance of the heat pump drops down to close to 1 which is basically the same as straight electric resistance.

For dedicated system where a single indoor unit with the same rating as the heat pump is used, like a single system for the garage, the efficiency will be better.


I have no idea what you are trying to say here. But a heat pump is ALWAYS more efficient that straight electric. As the temp drops it can approach the same but will always be slightly above 1.0 The point at which it approaches 1.0 is part of the evaporator (outside unit) design. Some work well down to 20 below.

The DIY and mainstream inverter driven minisplits generally work well down to about zero.
OK, let me try to clear up what I'm driving at. In the first quote above you said the mini-split is FAR cheaper to run than resistance heating. I am saying that is not always the case. The Daikin system, and others, have the option of multiple indoor units, all which can run individually. In my case I have a 36k Btuh heat pump connected to a 36 Btuh indoor unit in the house and a 9k Btuh unit in the garage. Each unit runs independently of the other. If I am running the garage unit, it would usually be the only unit running as I would be out there during the day. The garage is not heated full time, and the house unit runs almost exclusively at night. In that scenario I have a 36k Btuh heat pump connected to a 9k Btuh condenser/air handler. The heat pump will throttle back so it's output matches the load, but, and here's the kicker, the energy to run it does not drop proportionally. As a result the energy input into both the heat pump and indoor air handler are close to 9k Btuh, just barely under the output of the air handler. In this case the efficiency of the system, although better than 1, is not FAR better than straight resistance heating.

Below are two charts derived from the published engineering data for my Daikin heat pump. The first is for a 100% connected load. In that one you can see exactly what you are saying about the efficiency being far better, even at outdoor temps down to 5°F. The second chart is for 50% connected load. As you can see as the outdoor temp drops down to 5°F the energy in is 8.0k Btuh compared to 11.7k Btuh for 100% load. These are the actual numbers from my spreadsheet. That shows the input energy only drop about 30% for a 50% drop in output energy. Daikin does not publish data for 25% connected load. Extrapolating to a 25% connected load I estimate the input energy would probably be around 6.5 to 7k Btuh. So at 5°F for a 9k Btuh output (75% less than full load) the energy input is only about 40% less yielding a COP of 1.33. In my case 9k Btuh is quite slow to raise the garage from 55°F to 70°F. Coupling the low efficiency and the long warm up time I opted to use a pellet stove for heating the garage. Had I studied the engineering data closely before I built my house and installed the heat pump I would either have put in a much larger indoor unit in the garage, or not one at all. Time of day metering is also another reason I seldom run my garage unit. Power rates are almost double during the daytime compared to night time.

That's why I say if the indoor unit and heat pump are of equal rating then the system is very efficient, as you say it is. But, if the indoor unit is much smaller than the heat pump, which would be the norm for a multi-unit indoor system, you cannot be assured of high efficiency operation at low outdoor temps all of the time. Hope this helps you understand better my earlier comment.

139609

139610

I recognize this thread is about garage heating only and the single unit system is what is being recommended to the OP, but I just could not let your characterization of a mini-split system always being far more efficient go without offering an alternative view.