Like Pulling Teeth!

[NancysToy]

I am not much of a whiner, but I have come to the point in my frustration with BRP that I decided to post here, just in the hopes that sombody from BRP will happen to read my post and come to my aid.

Within the first 50 miles I rode the Spyder last year, the windshield cracked. At the first service, I submitted a claim. The dealer had to order a replacement, which took over two months to receive. This windshield was installed only finger tight, with loctite on the threads. Within ten miles this one cracked, too. The dealer submitted yet another claim, which was subsequently denied by BRP. The same day the shield cracked, I added rubber washers and barely snugged the screws. Now all four holes are cracked, some quite badly. BRP has since changed the attachment hardware and only supplies the shield as a kit. Obviously there is a problem.

I have measured the attachment points and inspected them thoroughly, and it is my opinion the problem lies in the console itself. If it is not addressed, windshields will continue to crack on this particular machine. This could certainly turn into a safety issue if one eventually breaks. At very least, the modified hardware should have been retrofitted to our Spyder, with a new windshield installed. It is ludicrous to insist there is only "One to a customer," when there is an obvious, underlying problem, and it does not involve a normal wear item.

My dealer has become frustrated trying to get this covered. They suggested I start a claim with BRP customer service, which usually helps them when they resubmit the claim themselves. I tried time after time to phone BRP customer assistance at the number in the manual. I just get the same recording, "Due to high call volume, we are unable to answer your call at this time." Very convenient for BRP...not so for me. I wrote a letter and emailed BRP via the SpyderTeam. To date I have had no reply. I just emailed them again, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

If you are out there BRP, please contact me! I dearly wish you would see fit to set up regional customer service representatives, to assist people like me, and some others here, who have been unable to get needed repairs done in a timely fashion. It should not take extreme measures to get a warranty issue resolved, or at least explained.
-Scotty

[bjt]

Sounds like a reasonable request. I can see how its frustrating when BRP's common statement is to refer all issues to your dealer but then the dealer can't get something accomplished... I have heard of a few owners being able to talk with someone at BRP about service issues but it seems that most people cannot communicate with BRP. :(

If and when we get to the LA event, if I remember, I'll try to get some BRP rep's phone number or email address for you.

[Lamonster]

I thought you bought a Cal-si. How does it fit?

[NancysToy]

I thought you bought a Cal-si. How does it fit?
Got a CHAD. Fit OK, but I even had to struggle a bit with their metal bracket and larger holes. That is when I decided to measure the nutserts vs. the windshield holes, and use winding stick to look for twist. There are definitely problems, including the nutserts way to the edge of the console holes, leaving a large, unsupported area on one side of each screw. Probably won't run the CHAD in the summer, so I want my stock windshield...in one piece!
-Scotty

[Lamonster]

Got a CHAD. Fit OK, but I even had to struggle a bit with their metal bracket and larger holes. That is when I decided to measure the nutserts vs. the windshield holes, and use winding stick to look for twist. There are definitely problems, including the nutserts way to the edge of the console holes, leaving a large, unsupported area on one side of each screw. Probably won't run the CHAD in the summer, so I want my stock windshield...in one piece!
-Scotty

If I remember right there is no nut insert, it was part of the casting of the console support.. :dontknow:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=1690

[TMehaffey]

Scotty,
One thing to note is loctite will attack lexan/polycarbonate.
It will cause cracks around the holes.
I own a business where we use polycarbonate as guards for
equipment. I had an employee use loctite blue on a machine
due to vibration, he also used it on the guard. He came back
an hour later and the guard was fractured at all the mounting
locations.
Hope this helps.
Tim

[NancysToy]

If I remember right there is no nut insert, it was part of the casting of the console support.. :dontknow:
You are correct in that the metal threads are cast in. I called it a nutsert for want of a better term. Bottom line is that the threaded holes are in the wrong places, putting strain on the windshields.


Scotty,
One thing to note is loctite will attack lexan/polycarbonate.
It will cause cracks around the holes.
I own a business where we use polycarbonate as guards for
equipment. I had an employee use loctite blue on a machine
due to vibration, he also used it on the guard. He came back
an hour later and the guard was fractured at all the mounting
locations.
Hope this helps.
Tim
Loctite can damage plastics, although I would be surprised to see it cause immediate cracks, even in large quantities. There was no loctite in contact with the replacement shield, and there is no evidence of marring from the chemical, which is what one usually sees. Unfortunately, even with the built-in locking compound on the BRP screws, they were only finger tight, and loosened in a short test ride around the parking lot, so something was needed to hold them in place.

BTW, whether it was this thread or the latest email complaining to BRP, they at least had the decency to finally email me and say that they were looking into it and that someone would contact me. We'll see...
-Scotty

[SSPSpyder]

I went in to my dealer recently and all their BRP ATVs and Spyders were gone (50+ units).
I asked what's up with that and was told by the sales manager that they were fed-up with dealing with BRP so they sold off all their inventory, never to be replaced!
Unhappy customers, unhappy dealers, what's next?
Wake-up BRP!:mad:

[Lamonster]

You are correct in that the metal threads are cast in. I called it a nutsert for want of a better term. Bottom line is that the threaded holes are in the wrong places, putting strain on the windshields.
-Scotty

Well Scotty I guess it's possible that your threads are in the wrong place but mine are just fine. I've had the stock shield, BRP touring shield and now the Cal-Si shield and have had no issues with cracks in 26,000 miles. :dontknow:

[Roger]

I would have thought that the rubber washer would do the trick or maybe permatex which has a rubber like properties once it's set up.

[Firefly]

A few thoughts on this odd-fitting shield.

Those holes are easy to strip out and my guess is that this happened - either at the factory or the dealer, so you are are not getting into the holes at the correct angle.

The other concern is you say you only 'snug' them down. Too loose could cause breakage.

It would be a major repair to replace the console, and since BRP doesn't support the usage of aftermarket parts, the best they will probably do would be to tap new holes correctly and use new, possibly larger screws.

While you're certainly frustrated - with good reason - I think you're just going to have to fix this yourself. Not what you want to hear I'm sure - but as with many things - if you want it done right you gotta do it yourself.

Tap new holes at the correct angle, use Heli-coils and new screws.

I use washers on mine to hold down a larger area of the shield. Someone on one of these groups had made metal plates that fit perfectly, which would be the ideal way to hold the shield down well.

I'm not aware of the changes you said that BRP made to the shield mounting? What did they change?

[Buelldog]

You are correct in that the metal threads are cast in. I called it a nutsert for want of a better term. Bottom line is that the threaded holes are in the wrong places, putting strain on the windshields.


Loctite can damage plastics, although I would be surprised to see it cause immediate cracks, even in large quantities. There was no loctite in contact with the replacement shield, and there is no evidence of marring from the chemical, which is what one usually sees. Unfortunately, even with the built-in locking compound on the BRP screws, they were only finger tight, and loosened in a short test ride around the parking lot, so something was needed to hold them in place.

BTW, whether it was this thread or the latest email complaining to BRP, they at least had the decency to finally email me and say that they were looking into it and that someone would contact me. We'll see...
-Scotty

Scotty......I know you should not have to do it.....but have you tried to modify the mounting holes in the windshield in to a slot configuration with lateral movement space for the stressed mounting hardware??The channel would have the same height but the hole elongated to allow stress related movement from the misaligned console attachment points:dontknow:

[johnboyjohn.pretious]

Hi Scotty,

I have the same symptoms. It appears the holes in the consul are differently spaced to my windshield. I have elongated the holes in the 'shield and made them into slots with a fine file and patients.Offering the two parts together so that the bolts do not pull the 'shield about seems to be working, but only time will tell. I have also put rubber washers between the consul and the bolt heads to give a slight movent for expansion and contraction in differing temperatures.

Keeping my fingers crossed

johnboy.

[NancysToy]

A few thoughts on this odd-fitting shield.

Those holes are easy to strip out and my guess is that this happened - either at the factory or the dealer, so you are are not getting into the holes at the correct angle.

The other concern is you say you only 'snug' them down. Too loose could cause breakage.

It would be a major repair to replace the console, and since BRP doesn't support the usage of aftermarket parts, the best they will probably do would be to tap new holes correctly and use new, possibly larger screws.

While you're certainly frustrated - with good reason - I think you're just going to have to fix this yourself. Not what you want to hear I'm sure - but as with many things - if you want it done right you gotta do it yourself.

Tap new holes at the correct angle, use Heli-coils and new screws.

I use washers on mine to hold down a larger area of the shield. Someone on one of these groups had made metal plates that fit perfectly, which would be the ideal way to hold the shield down well.

I'm not aware of the changes you said that BRP made to the shield mounting? What did they change?
Hole angles look good, and all are square to the metal they are bored into. The shields have provisions (slightly slotted holes) to allow for the angle as you tighten the screws. The hole locations do not match the holes in the shield well in either direction, however. The diagonals are even off side-to-side. Both the factory installed shield and the new one cracked quickly. The screws are snug, but not tight. There is no play to allow the shield to move and crack. The console is twisted, too, according to winding sticks I placed on it. The CHAD metal bracket sits flat on the floor, but two diagonally opposite mounting tabs sit high when laying loose on the Spyder. There is a principle involved here. I refuse to fix it unless they make it worth my while! BTW, the new kits have a large metal washer and a rubber washer for each screw. I heard the windshiel holes are also more elongated now, but I can't confirm that. The original ones were slightly elongated top-to-bottom on the lower holes, and side-to-side on the upper holes.


Scotty......I know you should not have to do it.....but have you tried to modify the mounting holes in the windshield in to a slot configuration with lateral movement space for the stressed mounting hardware??The channel would have the same height but the hole elongated to allow stress related movement from the misaligned console attachment points:dontknow:
This would be my preferred method if they would provide a new windshield. The dealer has already said he would not do so. The second part of the answer would be truing the console or replacing it, and filling the holes in the plastic to provide support clear around the screw. I can modify or fix about anything ever made, but again, this should not be my worry. This was not a $3,000 Chinese knock-off. If a BMW or a even a Honda had this problem, they would step up to the plate.......in far less than a year!

Oh nuts! Now you've gone and got me all riled up. :mad::D:pray:
-Scotty

[wyliec]

I am not much of a whiner, but I have come to the point in my frustration with BRP that I decided to post here, just in the hopes that sombody from BRP will happen to read my post and come to my aid.

Within the first 50 miles I rode the Spyder last year, the windshield cracked. At the first service, I submitted a claim. The dealer had to order a replacement, which took over two months to receive. This windshield was installed only finger tight, with loctite on the threads. Within ten miles this one cracked, too. The dealer submitted yet another claim, which was subsequently denied by BRP. The same day the shield cracked, I added rubber washers and barely snugged the screws. Now all four holes are cracked, some quite badly. BRP has since changed the attachment hardware and only supplies the shield as a kit. Obviously there is a problem.

I have measured the attachment points and inspected them thoroughly, and it is my opinion the problem lies in the console itself. If it is not addressed, windshields will continue to crack on this particular machine. This could certainly turn into a safety issue if one eventually breaks. At very least, the modified hardware should have been retrofitted to our Spyder, with a new windshield installed. It is ludicrous to insist there is only "One to a customer," when there is an obvious, underlying problem, and it does not involve a normal wear item.

My dealer has become frustrated trying to get this covered. They suggested I start a claim with BRP customer service, which usually helps them when they resubmit the claim themselves. I tried time after time to phone BRP customer assistance at the number in the manual. I just get the same recording, "Due to high call volume, we are unable to answer your call at this time." Very convenient for BRP...not so for me. I wrote a letter and emailed BRP via the SpyderTeam. To date I have had no reply. I just emailed them again, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

If you are out there BRP, please contact me! I dearly wish you would see fit to set up regional customer service representatives, to assist people like me, and some others here, who have been unable to get needed repairs done in a timely fashion. It should not take extreme measures to get a warranty issue resolved, or at least explained.
-Scotty
I have called the 1888 864 2002 and have gotten a live person each time. Is that the number you have called?

I just called again 5 pm EST and got through. My question was relating to not receiving my BEST card. But the number I have given is for any spyder questions.

[NancysToy]

I have called the 1888 864 2002 and have gotten a live person each time. Is that the number you have called?

I just called again 5 pm EST and got through. My question was relating to not receiving my BEST card. But the number I have given is for any spyder questions.
No, I used the number for Customer Assistance in the Operators Guide. That is the one the dealer instructed me to use. I never thought about trying the BEST number. We'll see if they respond to my email and letter, now that they have acknowledged receiving them at long last.
-Scotty

[Firefly]

I'm not sure what winding sticks are. You should probably take photos of it all - post them here - and send to BRP so they can see what you're talking about.

So it's not an angle problem from what it sounds.

Maybe time to break out the duct tape - or better yet some 3M industrial velcron.

I actually thought of making a quick-change bracket for the shield - something that works from inside the console outwards that the shield would slide onto and then clamp down from outside - so no more screwing into the console and taking the chance of stripping a hole.

[wyliec]

No, I used the number for Customer Assistance in the Operators Guide. That is the one the dealer instructed me to use. I never thought about trying the BEST number. We'll see if they respond to my email and letter, now that they have acknowledged receiving them at long last.
-Scotty

The number I gave is not the BEST number. It's the number to call only for spyder questions.

[NancysToy]

I'm not sure what winding sticks are. You should probably take photos of it all - post them here - and send to BRP so they can see what you're talking about.

So it's not an angle problem from what it sounds.

Maybe time to break out the duct tape - or better yet some 3M industrial velcron.

I actually thought of making a quick-change bracket for the shield - something that works from inside the console outwards that the shield would slide onto and then clamp down from outside - so no more screwing into the console and taking the chance of stripping a hole.
I have been impressed by the adjustable metal CHAD bracket. Very nicely made and really stiffens up the console. For getting some wind, what would be ideal for me would be an undrilled standard windshield, that I could drill to match the CHAD brackets. I have even considered plugging the holes in a stock shield, or using a sport or sport-touring bike shield with this bracket.
-Scotty

[NancysToy]

Well, my whining helped do the trick, it seems. I just got off the phone with a customer service rep from BRP in regard to the windshield. It sounds like things are going to start moving again. I don't know why, how, or where this has fallen through the cracks for so long, but I was certainly impressed when it finally got off the ground. To receive a phone call at 7 PM is above and beyond the call in taking care of a customer, and BRP deserves some credit for their efforts. I am very pleased so far. If we can get the problem solved and my warranty issues addressed, I will be ecstatic. My thanks to Carlo from BRP for his extra efforts on my behalf. I feel much better already. :D
-Scotty

[Roaddog2]

Sometimes the squeaky wheel does get the grease.....:thumbup::agree::agree:and when they start using well nuts this problem will go away well nuts are rubber with a threaded insert that expands when screws are threaded in :thumbup: