SE5 Not Downshifting

[stevo62]

My 2012 SE5 rt started stalling today every time we would come to a stop, figured out its not down shifting, I've read to check oil levels and I did and it is almost full, had oil changed at 9k miles at the dealer it has a little over 10k miles right now, The only way to get home from a ride was to manually downshift and avoid stopping (timing out the red lights) it would even stall on 1st gear, I would have to keep the rpm's up and apply the brake to keep from stalling . anyone else have this issue, My closest dealer is about 2hrs away, any advice would be appreciated , thx in advance

[Bfromla]

So you can only manually down shift, can you get in reverse? Does it still go to N on start up? No codes? Is there another dealer for a second opinion/inspection? Just a thought

[Snowbelt Spyder]

So, we have an SE5 that won't initiate an Auto downshift, but paddle shifting works normally in both directions. However, even when manually downshifted to 1st, the engine won't idle and keeps trying to die at a stop. I'm actually more interested in that because a lot of throttle manipulation, depending on how you're doing it, can interrupt the Auto downshift initiation.

So, what is the engine idle behavior in Neutral? Is it hard starting, idle rough, idle fast, keep trying to die? Does it run normally at higher RPM? If so, typical symptoms of a large vacuum leak such as failed purge valve or hoses to the MAP sensor. Vacuum hoses is always the old standby here, anyway. Your machine is 4 years old. Any codes? Check Engine Light? Just need to divide and conquer a little and separate the issues.

If idle operation is normal, what happens when you shift to 1st. Hard shift, feel like the centrifugal clutch is dragging on the engine at idle? Or after you start moving does it feel like it's not disengaging? Well, that would be a worse problem and probably a trip to the dealer is required. Or, are things relatively normal after startup, and the problems start after riding for awhile?

[stevo62]

So you can only manually down shift, can you get in reverse? Does it still go to N on start up? No codes? Is there another dealer for a second opinion/inspection? Just a thought

Yes I can get it on reverse, its on 1st gear when I start up, unless I put it on N when I shut down, No codes

[JIM W]

Check the map sensor vacuum lines if they haven't been replaced yet there do.
That's how my 2012 acted maybe not quite as extreme!

[stevo62]

So, we have an SE5 that won't initiate an Auto downshift, but paddle shifting works normally in both directions. However, even when manually downshifted to 1st, the engine won't idle and keeps trying to die at a stop. I'm actually more interested in that because a lot of throttle manipulation, depending on how you're doing it, can interrupt the Auto downshift initiation.

So, what is the engine idle behavior in Neutral? Is it hard starting, idle rough, idle fast, keep trying to die? Does it run normally at higher RPM? If so, typical symptoms of a large vacuum leak such as failed purge valve or hoses to the MAP sensor. Vacuum hoses is always the old standby here, anyway. Your machine is 4 years old. Any codes? Check Engine Light? Just need to divide and conquer a little and separate the issues.

If idle operation is normal, what happens when you shift to 1st. Hard shift, feel like the centrifugal clutch is dragging on the engine at idle? Or after you start moving does it feel like it's not disengaging? Well, that would be a worse problem and probably a trip to the dealer is required. Or, are things relatively normal after startup, and the problems start after riding for awhile?

Engine Bahavior is same as always, Idle normal 1300-1400, it does not sound like it wants to die. Took it for a ride this morning and sometimes it downshifts and sometimes it don't, it only died once while it was downshifting by its self, checked the oil again and its full, took some panels off on the left side but cant really see anything abnormal, I only see 1 hose but doesn't look cracked or broken, I wonder if I should pressure wash it with a reg hose nozzle, since we live by the coast and maybe something is just sticking?

[stevo62]

Check the map sensor vacuum lines if they haven't been replaced yet there do.
That's how my 2012 acted maybe not quite as extreme!

I took the lower panel (LH) off but cant figure out where the Map sensor vac hose is, We just recently move and lost my CD with the diagrams, thx . I'll keep looking ,
Found a pic here on the Vac line, looks like its on top of the engine, not sure what panels to take off , but I'll keep looking, thx

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Not really sure pressure washing would be recommended. The shift linkage is the only thing external and paddle shifting is fine.
2 hoses, front and back.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=127676&stc=1

[JIM W]

Take a look at the check engine light post in this trend it's the same problem

[spyderCodes]

It is possible that your map sensor hoses need replaced but I doubt if that is your problem.

On the SE5 shifting is initiated by the ECM (engine Control Module) by opening & closing a couple of solenoids (electrically controlled valves).
Since the ECM or TCM (Transmission Control Module) aren't throwing codes back I would remove the oil inspection Tupperware to expose the oil tank and look at the wiring and connectors that surround the aluminum structure behind the oil tank.
You'll see connectors and wires.
Make sure the connectors are snapped together securely.

It's possible either the transmission oil filter has either collapsed upon itself, the shift unit has picked up some dirt or the solenoids are not always working.

[stevo62]

It is possible that your map sensor hoses need replaced but I doubt if that is your problem.

On the SE5 shifting is initiated by the ECM (engine Control Module) by opening & closing a couple of solenoids (electrically controlled valves).
Since the ECM or TCM (Transmission Control Module) aren't throwing codes back I would remove the oil inspection Tupperware to expose the oil tank and look at the wiring and connectors that surround the aluminum structure behind the oil tank.
You'll see connectors and wires.
Make sure the connectors are snapped together securely.

It's possible either the transmission oil filter has either collapsed upon itself, the shift unit has picked up some dirt or the solenoids are not always working.

Ok Thanks , I'll check that

[Snowbelt Spyder]

And if we understand your problem correctly, shifting with the paddle worked every time with no issues. Auto downshifting was not working correctly. And there was a tendency to stall at idle. But, both the Auto downshifting and the stalling issue showed improvement on the ride this morning compared to previous. Auto downshifting needs 4 conditions to initiate:

-Throttle released
-Vehicle decelerates
-Preset RPM reached
-Preset speed reached

If you don't find anything wrong with your checks, give it some more exercise.

[stevo62]

Found the cracked hose, I'll be posting pics soon, on the way to buy a replacement and test run, Thanks everyone

[billybovine]

Something else easy to check just in case. The shift lever will come loose and bind. Not allowing it to shift sometimes. It is located in front of the left foot peg. Under the lower side bodywork. The lever must be all the way on the spline shaft with a small amount of the shaft sticking through the lever. Grab the lever and try and slide it back and forth on the shaft. If it slides tighten up the pinch bolt.

[stevo62]

Something else easy to check just in case. The shift lever will come loose and bind. Not allowing it to shift sometimes. It is located in front of the left foot peg. Under the lower side bodywork. The lever must be all the way on the spline shaft with a small amount of the shaft sticking through the lever. Grab the lever and try and slide it back and forth on the shaft. If it slides tighten up the pinch bolt.

Yes , I checked that first, it was good , Thx

[stevo62]

I changes the Vacuum Line , It was the front side, and went for a ride, and its back to normal, I shot some video and im gonna try and post it on you tube, I had already taken everthing apart so it might look weird uploading in reverse , thanks everyone, hope my pics load uphttp://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=127686&stc=1http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=127687&stc=1http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=127688&stc=1

[jerpinoy]

I'm glad to read this post and I've learn a lot, I also own a 2012 RT SE5 . Thanks to all who tune in.:yes:

[JIM W]

Glad to hear that fix your problem:clap:
But there's a second line running to the other carburetor I recommend you change that one as well:2thumbs:

[Highwayman2013]

Glad to hear that fix your problem:clap:
But there's a second line running to the other carburetor I recommend you change that one as well:2thumbs:

Agree, there is another vacuum line behind the sensor that goes to the other injector.

[stevo62]

Here's a short video if anyone wants to see it, I had already taken it apart when I started shooting video,
https://youtu.be/CfTPUz-3ytA

[Bfromla]

Yes I can get it on reverse, its on 1st gear when I start up, unless I put it on N when I shut down, No codes
:hun: The SE5 is suppose to always start engine in N no matter what gear it was in. The dealer should be able to know something from that. Sorry your having trouble, hope it all gets figged out:2thumbs:

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Here's a short video if anyone wants to see it, I had already taken it apart when I started shooting video,
https://youtu.be/CfTPUz-3ytA

Nice work. Now then. How about if EVERYBODY with a 998, who has never replaced these two hoses, replaces them this spring before the season starts. How to get that word out? Imagine what a trouble free riding season you'll have.

[billybovine]

:hun: The SE5 is suppose to always start engine in N no matter what gear it was in.


:hun: If you mean the engine will start in any gear. Yes, it does not need to be in neutral. After the engine starts an SE will automatically shift to neutral.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:hun: If you mean the engine will start in any gear. Yes, it does not need to be in neutral. After the engine starts an SE will automatically shift to neutral.
It is designed to work that way.............but it doesn't always ..........My RT is living proof, and B.U.D.S. couldn't find WHY !!!......Soooooooooo I always put mine into neutral before I shut it off..........Mike :bbq:

[bronzeflex42]

Here's a short video if anyone wants to see it, I had already taken it apart when I started shooting video,
https://youtu.be/CfTPUz-3ytA
I own a 2012 also and will definitely use the vid to replace mine. Thanks Steve. :2thumbs::ohyea::ohyea:

[lou49]

Since this engines get sooooo hot, It would be nice to replace them with heat resistant hoses! Who knows what b r p used? Have a 13 rts but I'm going to replace mines! Better safe than sorry!

[Spyder0824]

My wife's 2012 Spyder RT Limited started doing the same thing last Friday. We just bought it last Thursday. It only had 1800 miles on it. Yesterday I and a friend took off all the side covers and replaced the battery, fuel filter and spark plugs. We just got back from a 70 mile ride and it is still doing it. She was able to manually downshift and keep the rpm's up most of the time. But it still stalled out a few times. The dealer I bought it from is 400 miles away. There are no check engine icons showing. I am going to call the dealer tomorrow.

[Spyder0824]

Thanks for the pictures. I took the side panels off again & replaced both map sensor vacuum lines (even though only was cracked). Put it all back together and my wife and I went for a ride. We just got back and everything is working again. It is down shifting automatically and did not stall out. Thanks again.