Shaking tire - Let's play "Guess the Shake"

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I thought I would engage us in a pastime we love to do on this forum - speculating! :thumbup: This afternoon, all of a sudden after a hard left turn from a stop sign, a front tire started shaking. I think it's the right one but I can't say for certain. Here's what I've determined so far after doing some investigation and a test ride.

At around 50 to 55 it really shakes, enough that the handlebar shakes.

Tire pressures were about 16 psi. I raised them to 18 for the test ride.

No wheel weights are missing, at least there is no adhesive residue or clean spot showing where one may have fallen off.

I jacked up each tire and spun them by hand. There is no visible bulge in any sidewall or in either tread area nor could I feel any. There is no wow in the tread. These indicates there is no obvious tread or ply separation, but that's not to say that may not be the problem.

I did not see any nail, screw, bolt, or anything of the sort that may have punctured the tire and caused an imbalance.

There is no wobble in either tire.

Lug nuts are all tight.

Sway bar heim links are not broken that I can see.

I have to go out of town for the weekend so I won't be able to take the tires to a tire shop or the dealer until Tuesday. This gives you all 5 days to play "Guess the Shake". So what do you think is the cause of the problem? Hopefully on Tuesday I'll be able to find out and we'll see who the most prescient member is! :bowdown:

[Pampurrs]

:popcorn:

[Mazo EMS2]

"Toe-in" got screwed up? Broken band in tire? Tie rod end or bushing screwed up?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

"Toe-in" got screwed up? Broken band in tire? Tie rod end or bushing screwed up?
I forgot to include no apparent looseness in ball joints or tie rod ends.

[Ex-Rocket]

Rear tire is flat.

[Chupaca]

nothing inside the tire...?? ( slime, fix a flat, ride on, beads etc ) And you checked quite a bit. :thumbup: What about the shocks..?? Did you hit any potholes, curbs or pedestrians..?? :popcorn::popcorn:

[BajaRon]

It is your imagination. Nothing is wrong with the tire.... :rolleyes:

[Pampurrs]

I know I may be reaching here...... when was the last time you changed the air in your tires? :dontknow:

:shemademe_smilie: Pam

[Bensonoid]

It's the nut that holds the handlebars.

[Peter Aawen]

It's the nut that holds the handlebars.

What?!? He's a bit loose?! :shocked: :yikes:



If it's not a dud wheel bearing or ball joint, then I'd guess that the shake has something to do with wheel alignment; not toe in/out, more like insufficient positive caster angle... ;)

[finless]

While you had it jacked up, did you check the wheel bearing for any lateral play? e.g. grab the tire front and back and try to wiggle it side to side which would indicate a loose or worn front wheel bearing?

Jerbear had this similar issue and it was his wheel bearings.

Bob

[spydaman60]

:agree: wheel bearings!!!

[jcasey]

:popcorn:
Can I have a bite! :clap:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

While you had it jacked up, did you check the wheel bearing for any lateral play? e.g. grab the tire front and back and try to wiggle it side to side which would indicate a loose or worn front wheel bearing?

Jerbear had this similar issue and it was his wheel bearings.

Bob
The only movement was when I held the front and back sides of the tire and wiggled it. There is a very tiny bit which is the same as I feel in the steering. There is ever so slight play in the steering. Holding the tire top and bottom I could feel no movement at all.

That's why I posted this. I've run out of ideas as to what it might be, other than maybe something internal in the tire like a belt separation that's not visible.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

What?!? He's a bit loose?! :shocked: :yikes:
You're not the first to suggest that! :roflblack:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I know I may be reaching here...... when was the last time you changed the air in your tires? :dontknow:

:shemademe_smilie: Pam
I think you may be onto something! Maybe the air has gotten old and sticky and coagulated in one spot! :roflblack::roflblack:

[garb55]

I know I may be reaching here...... when was the last time you changed the air in your tires? :dontknow:

:shemademe_smilie: Pam

That must be it Pampurrs
He went out and purchased cheap air and it has flat spots :roflblack::roflblack:
There is no "HE made me do it" :roflblack:
By the way I like your license plate

[Highwayman2013]

I had this happen on our 2012 at 14,000 miles, it was bad tires. We tried balancing but they shook worse, belt separation was the determination as one tire was no longer round.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I think I may have encountered the same issue as Highwayman did. A couple of things I didn't mention earlier. My tires have 21,500 miles on them with a fair amount of tread left. The right mirror vibrates pretty badly, the left just a little, so that makes me think it must be the right tire or wheel.

I decided to do some trouble shooting before I leave town in case I need to order a new set of front tires. I went to the local tire shop and had the right tire spin balanced. He took 4 weights off (they're 1/4 oz each) and put on 8 weights, 4 each in two spots, one group near to where the original ones were. A recheck showed the tire to be in perfect balance.

The bike shakes as much or more now than it did before. My next step is to swap the left and right tires and see if the shake moves to the left. If it does, then that's a strong indicator the tire is the culprit. If the shake stays on the right then it's got to be something like the wheel bearing.

I'm off to do the swap!

The tire dealer found that there are 35 Federal EVOs available somewhere in the US. His charge would be about $100 ea., mounted and balanced? How does that compare to what some of you guys have paid? I don't time at the moment to search the forum.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I see balance imperfections all the time but no weights are flipped off, i always tell my customers to have it checked with
road force to verify rim/tire is good & then have it balanced.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

No change in the shake after swapping the tires. Jacked up the right one again and used a rod to listen for internal noise in the bearing. Nothing. Almost complete silence as the wheel spins. The only sound was a little bit of rubbing of the brake pad.

So, I guess it's off to the dealer next week! :banghead:

[Champagne]

When was the last time you change the brakes if they are not put on properly you can heat up the brakes and the Rota Will develop a wave this will make the tire wobble every time you hit the brakes hard. I know about the wobble you are talking about it will come out of nowhere the wheel look like it is ready to dance it's wobbling so bad but if you keep on driving it will disappear. But what you have to be careful of if it wobbles too much it will break the bracket that holds the fender on the front tire I had to take mine and go get it welded before I realized what the problem was

[TXSHOTGUN]

due to the low air pressure, it could have spun the tire on the wheel in the tight turn. this would cause its balance to be off. This can sometimes happen if you brake hard also.

[Highwayman2013]

When was the last time you change the brakes if they are not put on properly you can heat up the brakes and the Rota Will develop a wave this will make the tire wobble every time you hit the brakes hard. I know about the wobble you are talking about it will come out of nowhere the wheel look like it is ready to dance it's wobbling so bad but if you keep on driving it will disappear. But what you have to be careful of if it wobbles too much it will break the bracket that holds the fender on the front tire I had to take mine and go get it welded before I realized what the problem was
I did that when I put new pads on the front. If you put the EBC pads on they are a little thicker. You must leave the metal backing covers off the pads. The good thing is I got new rotors from Bajaron and the RT stops much better.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Brake pads are original. The tire was rebalanced today and that did not changed the shake very little, if at all. The shake is all the time, not while braking. Swapping the tires right and left did not change it.

[Peter Aawen]

The more you tell us about it, the more it sounds like you've got one or more dud tires!! Only fix for that is new/replacements!! :(

Good luck :thumbup:

[Pampurrs]

That must be it Pampurrs
He went out and purchased cheap air and it has flat spots :roflblack::roflblack:
There is no "HE made me do it" :roflblack:
By the way I like your license plate

Thanks! :dg1:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The more you tell us about it, the more it sounds like you've got one or more dud tires!! Only fix for that is new/replacements!! :(

Good luck :thumbup:
With 21,500 miles on the tires I'm kind of thinking maybe I should go ahead and get new tires even though there is some tread left on the Kendas. Then if the shaking, actually more like vibration, continues I'll know for certain it's something mechanical.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

you said you had them balanced but did you have them road force tested, there is a very big difference

[finless]

Reaching a little.

A bad shock can make you think a tire is out of balance.
Got new tires on my SUV about 6 months ago and at certain speeds I got a shake and swore they did not balance them right.
Took it back and they checked them again. Balance was fine!
They told me I really needed to replace the shocks which they did tell me the first time and I passed on doing that (don't plan on keeping the SUV much longer).
Had them replace the shocks this time and all was good.

Bob

[Highwayman2013]

With 21,500 miles on the tires I'm kind of thinking maybe I should go ahead and get new tires even though there is some tread left on the Kendas. Then if the shaking, actually more like vibration, continues I'll know for certain it's something mechanical.

Something you would do sooner or later and it eliminates a variable.

[trikermutha]

mine shakes to at 7200 miles..not to bad yet but winter those crap tires are gone IMB

[Bensonoid]

Those tires have been good friends but it's time to let them go.

[NorCalBud]

I asked about a similar situation happening with my '12 RTL a few weeks back, only I said Shimmy and wobble as well as occurring between 43 to 46 mph...
The replies I got referred to it being "Tire Separation". There are several other posts using that term. I haven't had the $$ for new tires, so I'm just waiting it out until I do....
I'm curious to see if new tires results in a remedy for your issue.
Good Luck!

[Mongo]

I did everything you just went through, To no avail mine was a bent rim, not sure how it got bent because no one rides my Spyder but me and I am the original owner and do not recall hitting anything to cause this.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I did everything you just went through, To no avail mine was a bent rim, not sure how it got bent because no one rides my Spyder but me and I am the original owner and do not recall hitting anything to cause this.
I can't figure why the vibration didn't change sides when I swapped the tires if the problem really is the tire. Did you try swapping?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

As a guess, might check the front pulley to be sure it is tight.

From your info, it leads away from the front wheels. My first guesses would be tires, brakes, then look elsewhere.

Still though, the hard pull to the side mentioned in post one indicates front end, maybe even a stuck caliper piston.

PK
There's no hard pull. It's just the right side vibrates more than the left and is quite noticeable in the mirror. It stayed that way after swapping the front tires left and right. Thinking about it I would describe the vibration as kind of sharp, in other words strong and very short in duration, not a smooth up and down like you would expect from an out of round tire.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If the issue is on one side only ( right ) and you swapped tires and issue remains on the right side .......I'm thinking wheel bearings ?????......Mike :thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It is your imagination. Nothing is wrong with the tire.... :rolleyes:


I can't figure why the vibration didn't change sides when I swapped the tires if the problem really is the tire.


As a guess, might check the front pulley to be sure it is tight.

From your info, it leads away from the front wheels. My first guesses would be tires, brakes, then look elsewhere.

PK
Turned out to be a simple problem with a simpler solution! :banghead:

BajaRon pretty well nailed it! PMK was darn close, and had the best answer, "Look elsewhere."

Yesterday I noticed that the body panel on the left side vibrated while the right one did not. It was greatest at around 40 mph and somewhat less at 60 to 70 mph. That did not change when today I swapped the tires back like they are supposed to be. That made me start to think the problem was on the left side, not the right side as I originally was convinced it was, even though the right mirror vibrated a lot more than the left mirror.

I also noticed the last week or two the drive belt is moving to the outside of the wheel pulley so today I wondered if the bearing in the SmoothSpyder tensioner might be bad and pushing the belt sideways and causing the vibration. I jacked up the back wheel and starting turning it. Lo and behold! There was a small rock stuck in the teeth right on the outside edge of the wheel pulley! :gaah: A quick jab with a screwdriver and it was gone! :ohyea: I took Nid out for a test ride and NO MORE vibration! :thumbup: :thumbup: :yes: :yes: My right side mirror vibrates no more! :clap:And I don't see any damage to the belt!

So let that be a lesson for us all. A vibration seen in one part of the Spyder doesn't mean the source of it lies there. No new tires needed either, yet! :yes:

[WellsboroSpyder]

The bearing in the asphalt might be bad

[finless]

So let that be a lesson for us all. A vibration seen in one part of the Spyder doesn't mean the source of it lies there. No new tires needed either, yet! :yes:

Reminds me of RC Helicopters!!! You know everything on a helicopter is spinning right? People chase tail vibe issues like "it must be in the tail rotor"!!!!!!
It's almost always in the main rotor...

Good analogy....
You got sucked into the "vibe" issue and thinking it HAD to be this or that.....

Bob

[south GA Farm Boy]

Brake pads are original. The tire was rebalanced today and that did not changed the shake very little, if at all. The shake is all the time, not while braking. Swapping the tires right and left did not change it.

Did you ever solve the problem on the handlebar shaking even after balancing the tires? My 2016 started doing the same thing about 250 mile and two different dealers or myself has been unable to solve the problems! I have spend money on everything I can come up with and still have problem! One dealer replaced one front tire, the other dealer replaced right front wheel bearing, and did numerous testing of the spyder, and no answer! It keeps on shaking the handlebars and windshield! I have two new federal tires ordered, and they should be here this week, will put them on and see what happens! I really think Can Am needs to get involved and put two new wheels and tires on the front! If that doesn't solve the problem, buy it back or replace it with a new Spyder! It is only about 5 weeks old!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did you ever solve the problem on the handlebar shaking even after balancing the tires?

I guess you missed the answer [highlighted in quote below] in the post three above yours! :opps:


Turned out to be a simple problem with a simpler solution! :banghead:

BajaRon pretty well nailed it! PMK was darn close, and had the best answer, "Look elsewhere."

Yesterday I noticed that the body panel on the left side vibrated while the right one did not. It was greatest at around 40 mph and somewhat less at 60 to 70 mph. That did not change when today I swapped the tires back like they are supposed to be. That made me start to think the problem was on the left side, not the right side as I originally was convinced it was, even though the right mirror vibrated a lot more than the left mirror.

I also noticed the last week or two the drive belt is moving to the outside of the wheel pulley so today I wondered if the bearing in the SmoothSpyder tensioner might be bad and pushing the belt sideways and causing the vibration. I jacked up the back wheel and starting turning it. Lo and behold! There was a small rock stuck in the teeth right on the outside edge of the wheel pulley! :gaah: A quick jab with a screwdriver and it was gone! :ohyea: I took Nid out for a test ride and NO MORE vibration! :thumbup: :thumbup: :yes: :yes: My right side mirror vibrates no more! :clap:And I don't see any damage to the belt!

So let that be a lesson for us all. A vibration seen in one part of the Spyder doesn't mean the source of it lies there. No new tires needed either, yet! :yes: