Turn like Snow Skiing? Newbie thoughts...

[tehrlich]

Just had my 2015 Black RT limited delivered yesterday. The two extra weeks for delivery was TERRIBLE and AWESOME at the same time. It was fantastic that it gave me the opportunity to really study these forums. Thank you for all that participate! It was terrible for me that I had to wait! I haven't ridden a motorcycle in 30 years!

Having the "Do's and Don'ts" thread implanted on my skull, I started her up and went for it. The first ten miles were very scary.... drift, lean, tracking, etc., etc., and I quickly reviewed all the posts in my brain of swaybars and shocks that I'd needed to buy.

Then, I realized how tight my hands were. I tried it again, but made an effort to relax my hands, and the turns came a lot smoother. It dawned on me that the tightened hands were much like tightened feet while snow-skiing. When you are snow-skiing and you are afraid of the terrain, or the conditions, it is natural to lean back in the boots. This gets you out of balance over the skis, and to compensate, your toes will tend to grab towards the front of the boot. It's a vicious cycle because the more you lean back, the more the skis want to get away from you.

I was a professional ski instructor for many years and have taught thousands to ski. So, I stepped on the Spyder again, and decided to go back to my training days and use that philosophy. I drove over to the "bunny slope" (a local middle school parking lot), and really worked on the turns as suggested in the manual and on videos. I am SO GLAD that I made myself do it. It was invaluable information as I was in a controlled environment where I could change positions, attempt weight shifts, play with the throttle, etc.

My next observations, may be completely inaccurate, so any input is appreciated so that I do not develop bad habits!!

1. Hands on the Spyder are like feet in the ski boots. The outside foot on a turn (the downhill ski) applies more pressure to engage the edges. I found that if I focused on my outside hand to apply pressure on the handlebar to turn, my turns became smoother. The inside hand needed to work, but let's say 80:20. Similar to skiing.

2. Body position, and weight transition, are critical through a turn. With skiing, you have to transfer your body weight over the outside ski, and FORWARD. This will keep the core over the skis and the skis take over. I found with the Spyder turn you lean into the turn and forward. The harder the turn (not just sharp but higher speed, too) the more centrifugal force to throw you out of the turn. Therefore you you don't just lean into the turn, but lean forward towards the inside wheel.

3. Legs and feet mattered. During a turn if I felt my inside leg putting pressure on the seat, it felt like I was "hanging on," and more body roll and skipping occurred. However, when I applied pressure to my outside foot, like a ski boot, it helped me get my weight forward and inside. The turns seemed to just carve, and were dynamic.


I focused completely on hands and feet with body position for 100 miles today and could really tell when I hit the sweet spots of the turns. The more I attempted to attempt a dynamic turn, the more body roll and skipping decreased. I could get it down to where I never felt a lot of sway or jumping. I think I'll get the upgrades eventually, but will try to master the stock setup first.

I have more thoughts on posture, the sweet spot of the Y, and timing of a turn, but would like anyone's input on my observations.

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: and :congrats:

Your getting it figured out. Practice makes perfect. :2thumbs::2thumbs:

[one2doo]

:congrats:

[PrairieSpyder]

Good analogy. Your #2 - like skiing, push with your outside foot, shifting your weight to the inside.

[Chupaca]

congrats on a fine new ryde..:2thumbs: never snow skied but it sounds like you got it figured out and well on your way to be a pro. Enjoy it :thumbup:

[missouriboy]

Welcome to the party!
You are "getting it" very quickly. Good for you! :yes:

#1: "Pushing the outboard bar for turns": YES, you'll get much better control and less fatigue this way. It's entirely unlike handling the same curve on two wheels.

[tehrlich]

Forgot to add…

I used to always tell my students that it was "better to look good, than to ski good!" (As adapted from Billy Crystal on SNL.)

A brand new black 2015 RT Limited definitely does that!!

Keep looking 'maahvelous'! LOL


(I want an F3 just for that reason!)

[tehrlich]

Thanks for the replies. Looking forward to learning a lot on here

[Lew L]

Welcome---

Just wait untill You get a bajaron bar:rolleyes:.

BTW: I try to put a bit more pressure on my inside ski( outer edge )(maybe 70/30). I get much more controle and it's less tiring as both legs share the pressure.

It's a great analogy--pressing with the outside foot---I"m trying to make it a ingrained habit ( like sking ) so I don't even have to think about ( like sking)

Kaos

[chuck gross]

that is a perfect analogy as I have been skiing for 50 years it is a great way of putting the body language.
just remember to do your braking if needed before the corner and at the apex of the turn give it a little throttle out of the corner and
try to pick a line and stay smooth with out any major steering corrections through the corner now your carving some turns!!
and much like skiing look through the corner and ahead to set up for the next corner or what lies ahead.
and the nanny helps let you know when you are getting a little squirrely or if you hit some sand or gravel in that turn she helps you out.
have a blast and welcome Spyder lover.:ohyea:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This may sound weird and dangerous......but to relax both my hands while riding I actually just release my fingers ( not thumbs ) from the grips and only push to turn. ....Not say push with left, pull with right etc.....This prevents the " DEATH GRIP TENDENCY " of the newer rider.....try it on some gentle roads to see if it helps......Mike :thumbup:

[tehrlich]

Welcome---

Just wait untill You get a bajaron bar:rolleyes:.

BTW: I try to put a bit more pressure on my inside ski( outer edge )(maybe 70/30). I get much more controle and it's less tiring as both legs share the pressure.

It's a great analogy--pressing with the outside foot---I"m trying to make it a ingrained habit ( like sking ) so I don't even have to think about ( like sking)

Kaos
Yes, I will probably upgrade, but I want to get the stock setup figured out first.

Skiing... 80/20 was the old-school "centerline" model. The better "shaped skis" give you a lot more latitude for weight distribution and much more efficient.

[tehrlich]

that is a perfect analogy as I have been skiing for 50 years it is a great way of putting the body language.
just remember to do your braking if needed before the corner and at the apex of the turn give it a little throttle out of the corner and
try to pick a line and stay smooth with out any major steering corrections through the corner now your carving some turns!!
and much like skiing look through the corner and ahead to set up for the next corner or what lies ahead.
and the nanny helps let you know when you are getting a little squirrely or if you hit some sand or gravel in that turn she helps you out.
have a blast and welcome Spyder lover.:ohyea:


Thanks!

Great point! Accelerate as you're coming out of the turn. I'll try that!

[tehrlich]

This may sound weird and dangerous......but to relax both my hands while riding I actually just release my fingers ( not thumbs ) from the grips and only push to turn. ....Not say push with left, pull with right etc.....This prevents the " DEATH GRIP TENDENCY " of the newer rider.....try it on some gentle roads to see if it helps......Mike :thumbup:

I kind of discovered this after my forearms were cramped up! Just stretching the fingers got me thinking how tight I was locked on.

[Deanna777]

This may sound weird and dangerous......but to relax both my hands while riding I actually just release my fingers ( not thumbs ) from the grips and only push to turn. ....Not say push with left, pull with right etc.....This prevents the " DEATH GRIP TENDENCY " of the newer rider.....try it on some gentle roads to see if it helps......Mike :thumbup::agree: Deanna

[Bob Denman]

Have you had any ATVing experience? That'll also help!
(But I REALLY like your skiing analogy! :clap: :thumbup:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5gbDgptNlvA

[bmccaffrey]

Welcome aboard.
Many good suggestions.

Hmmmmmmm ski instructor in TEXAS.
Short season LOL :roflblack:

[Trbayth]

I kind of discovered this after my forearms were cramped up! Just stretching the fingers got me thinking how tight I was locked on.
I've got about 8K miles on the Spyder and I still have to remind myself sometimes to relax.

Sent from my ASUS ZenPhone 2 using Tapatalk

[AY4B]

Great analogy , I was thinking the same thing for awhile now. It's more like a combination of snow skiing and a go cart.

[tehrlich]

Again, I'm a newbie at this. I've just been trained to dissect every aspect of a turn. So my brain can't help it, but I realize I need input from people that are experienced.

Ive read a lot about 'anticipating the turn .' I discovered that if I focused on my hips and two 'sit bones,' that it was easier to start the turn, carve the turn, and avoid hopping. It also seemed to help me judge the correct radius of the turn. I had been struggling with that in my first 50 miles.

Just before the turn I would lean slightly onto the corresponding 'sit bone.' Then the turn would occur. So right turn, right sit bone, etc.

I also found out that my hips have to be fluid just like in skiing actually. My mindset when I first hopped on the thing was that I just throttled, braked, and turned. But I've discovered that isn't the case at all.

Your body has a region of space (front to back, left and right) that you must use to have the machine carve a turn. Can't just sit on the seat.

[tehrlich]

Sorry for the long posts and possible obvious statements. Just trying to learn and not develop bad habits.

[tehrlich]

Forgot to mention that focusing on weighting the correct sit bone helped my hands begin the turn. As I just sit here typing this, if I put my hands up like on the handlebar, place more weight on the right sit bone, my right hand comes in and my left hand goes out. Both clockwise, or a right turn.

Placing more weight on the left sit bone automatically moves my hands counterclockwise, or a left turn.

Input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[ursamajor35126]

I haven't analyzed my "sit bones" or my anticipatory movements necessary to drive my Spyder..... however I DO drive aggressively and "carve" my turns. All I know is that if I hang on for dear life the bike twitches and rocks and wiggles in the middle of the curves.... If I let the bike move around under me.... ie: seek it's own "set" and do what it wants to do naturally.... I am confident, relaxed and smiling as I roll on the throttle at the apex and power away like a "real" motorcycle rider.

AS an aside.... when I first bought my spyder I thought the damn thing was trying to kill me every chance it got. As I rode it a few hundred more miles I learned to begin to relax and not muscle the thing around so much..... Now..... Well the smiles say it all...... I love my Spyder and wouldn't change a thing. I have gone on some rides with 2 wheelers on some rather "spirited" rides and I keep up with them on my RT.... If I had an F3 I would lead the way.:yes:

[AY4B]

Dont try to over think your every move. I also did that at first. Just take more rydes and you will find that every time you get on your spyder, you will relax a little more, take more control, and enjoy the ryde. I still like your skiing analogy though. I find myself using that same body movements with my lower body more so than my upper body. Dont over do it though. Experience is the best teacher. Let your Spyder teach you.

[tehrlich]

Well, it's in my nature to over think a turn. It was how I was "raised!" It's also fun for me to analyze it.

As I've been working on this, I've noticed that I can anticipate the hop if my weight is not in the right place. Skiing isn't any different: get your weight incorrectly between the skis and you are now fighting the skis. I think this applies with the two front wheels of a Spyder, too.

Anyway, I hope this may help some newbies like me.

[Jim's_Spyder]

I got mine in Oct last year, just under 2K miles on it. I still catch myself with a death grip on the bars. I have to fight with myself not to do that when I ride.

[PistonBlown]

You'll notice with the original GS and the standard RS that the seat is quite curved from side to side - I think this encourages you to transfer your weight around in corners and makes pretty easy to do so. With the RT's, and to a lesser extent the RSS's/ST's, the seat is flatter which makes them more comfortable but I suspect it also stops that initial tendency to move around so it has to be a more conscious thing at first. On my RS I tend to move around quite a bit when cornering, putting my weight not only into the corner but forward to keep that inside front wheel on the ground.

I think your right to hold off getting the swaybar at first. I spent some time with the standard sway bar to really get the feel for it and understand the limitations were before I swapped it. This allowed me to 'fix' my riding style with plenty of safety leeway, and I could then appreciate how much of an improvement the new sway bar was.

[PrairieSpyder]

You'll notice with the original GS and the standard RS that the seat is quite curved from side to side - I think this encourages you to transfer your weight around in corners and makes pretty easy to do so. With the RT's, and to a lesser extent the RSS's/ST's, the seat is flatter which makes them more comfortable but I suspect it also stops that initial tendency to move around so it has to be a more conscious thing at first. On my RS I tend to move around quite a bit when cornering, putting my weight not only into the corner but forward to keep that inside front wheel on the ground.

I think your right to hold off getting the swaybar at first. I spent some time with the standard sway bar to really get the feel for it and understand the limitations were before I swapped it. This allowed me to 'fix' my riding style with plenty of safety leeway, and I could then appreciate how much of an improvement the new sway bar was.

:agree:

I wish the RT seat was more saddle-like, like the RS. But I manage to shift my weight as needed, especially now that there are floor-boards on which to plant my feet.

[wiredgeorge]

I am pretty proud of myself when I remember to keep my eyes open in turns.... Like CC said, "Be the ball"!

[Ben Burped]

I took the official Commonwealth of Virginia trike course on my own RT. They taught me to move my butt as far as possible on the seat toward the inside of turns and definitely move my body weight as far as safely possible toward the inside of turns. Try this sitting still while you get the " hang " of it and then try it in a controlled environment such as an empty parking lot. You will discover amazing things.

[tehrlich]

I'm at nearly 1000 miles and I feel like I got the hang of the turning in the first 100 miles. I realize many veterans on here are thinking that you don't need to think this much about it, but as a new owner, I disagree. I think this discussion may be valuable for the many lurkers on the site that are thinking about purchasing or have purchased. I know, because I was one of them.

When I initially rode and didn't have the hang of it, it scared me a lot. How was I going to get my kids on this thing with it trying to throw me out of a turn? My initial reaction was to come here and search for answers. I figured out a lot in different thread comments, practiced, watched the BPR videos, and did ALL of their recommended exercises. I became more comfortable. However, I didn't know if I was building bad habits while I was feeling better.

I didn't like the mantra that you just have to ride 30-40 minutes and you'll figure it out. That would be like someone telling a new skier to get on the slopes and you'll figure out how to turn in a few hours. Anyone that has been skiing knows that there are people that know how to turn skis and people that know how to RIDE their skis. Big difference.

As a new owner of something that looks like a "cruiser," I think the psychology of it was that I just had to sit back and ride. I've found quite the opposite, as most do I guess. The more I use my weight on my feet (not standing), the more I'm able to move my upper body and center of mass into the turn, and push/pull the handle bar. The machine tracks perfectly, the inertia is fluid, and it feels just like my skis bending and accelerating out of a turn. I'm no expert, to say the least, but I can at least sense when it feels right.

[tehrlich]

I'm still with the stock ride of my 2015 RT Limited, and using my analogy of skiing, I'm guessing this is a very middle of the road setup for someone: average height and weight, and easy riding. This is the same when you ski on a mid-level skis/boots/bindings. I feel like I've maxed out the suspension with my weight (230, 6'4") and pushing the limits, and willing to discover boundaries with the limits. I'm certainly no expert, and I'm thinking of the dynamics of every turn I make. (If that doesn't appeal to you, I understand, but that is my brain working and having fun!)

Actually, I could see myself leaving it as stock if I was 30 pounds lighter and just cruising the neighborhoods and light highway riding. But, I'm sway barring it and adding upgraded shocks of course! Can't wait for those to go on. I know that I'll want it to do more even after that! LOL! I'm already contemplating an F3! :shocked: I need to stay married, though!

[tehrlich]

I apologize that I haven't searched more on this, but the tires definitely go through a break-in period. I know to a lot of you that is "obvious" but someone may not know it. I've found that the tires respond a LOT better now that I've put hundreds of miles on them.

However! Are these tires that great? Are there better options? The sidewalls seem soft.

I would very much like any suggestions that the pros have on this.

[tehrlich]

There aren't many "trike only" Basic motorcycle classes in Texas. I took one this weekend near Galveston. It was great because it focused on the Can Am platform and Chris was extremely knowledgeable. I did a two-day private course because I knew that I had detailed questions. He helped me a lot and pushed me hard to find limits. Because it was just the two of us, he let me run the courses more than necessary and coached me on each one. Just a fantastic experience, even in the 104 heat!


A link to their website is here. (http://www.motorcyclerentalshouston.com/miscpage_010.asp)