14K service and OOOOPS! I don't think this is good!

[finless]

Just started my 14K service.

This will be the 3rd oil change I have done so far and the two others nothing was ever on my drain plug magnet.

But this time I find this!

It's a set screw (flat end type).

Any ideas? Lamont, your thoughts please?

I am pretty sure if I took it to the dealer they would not want to pull the engine and do a tear down for this?

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106232&d=1429989801

Bob

[DrewNJ]

Is that out of the oil tank or engine? Is there by any chance a really small hole through the middle?

[Lew L]

I'v rebuilt more than a few motors-- from 50cc honda s to 350 ci v/8s--just can't think of a set screw inside a motor. Sooooo-
The good: it somhow got transfered into the motor during assembly and you"ve now got it;)

The bad: Something will soon come loose:shocked:

It's abviously been in the motor for a while and your :spyder2:is running fine??? So we all can hope it's some kind of assembly error. Most things in larger motors are held together with high torque/high strength fasterners or a press fit. But some kind of sensor( oil level, gear position, ect) maybe be positioned with a set screw.

​Good Luck!!!

Kaos

[bruiser]

There is one of those in the oil pump assy. on the pressure regulating piston.

[DrewNJ]

I don't think the oil pump regulator set screw looks like that.

[finless]

Yes I looked at page 66&67 of my 2010/11 service manual and no set screw like that is listed!

I also pinged Shawn Smoak and he checked BOSSweb and finds no mention of a set screw like that.

While I am worried about it, Spyder is back together and running fine.

Can I say and repeat others that taking out the air box to put in new plugs and wires was a total pain in the butt! But that's done now too and all is running well. One thing I did for next time was to remove the spring clips that hold the lid on the airbox and i pounded the locking tabs on those flat so I can remove them next time! Those clips caused most of the headache getting the air box out.

Bob

[Chupaca]

On oil change, do you let the plug drop into the oil pan then retrive it when draining the pan..? Could that have been left in the pan from some other job. Have seen this happen quite often...:dontknow:

[bruiser]

Bob, I found it much easier to pull the air box if you drop the right side support bar. Don't have to remove it completely. I pulled the mounting bolts and a few other things and let it hang. I had the plugs/wires changed in three hours start to finish on my RT.

[Highwayman2013]

Yes I looked at page 66&67 of my 2010/11 service manual and no set screw like that is listed!

I also pinged Shawn Smoak and he checked BOSSweb and finds no mention of a set screw like that.

While I am worried about it, Spyder is back together and running fine.

Can I say and repeat others that taking out the air box to put in new plugs and wires was a total pain in the butt! But that's done now too and all is running well. One thing I did for next time was to remove the spring clips that hold the lid on the airbox and i pounded the locking tabs on those flat so I can remove them next time! Those clips caused most of the headache getting the air box out.

Bob
That air box is fun! 5 minutes to change the plug on the rear cylinder and 5 hours for the front.

[finless]

On oil change, do you let the plug drop into the oil pan then retrive it when draining the pan..? Could that have been left in the pan from some other job. Have seen this happen quite often...:dontknow:

No I do not. I quickly pull it away so I can what is on the magnet.

Shawn is sending that pick to BRP in the morning. He says he has torn apart several motor and just does not recognize that screw.

Bob

[finless]

Bob, I found it much easier to pull the air box if you drop the right side support bar. Don't have to remove it completely. I pulled the mounting bolts and a few other things and let it hang. I had the plugs/wires changed in three hours start to finish on my RT.

That's what I did. It still was a bear as those damn spring clips hang on everything!

In the end it took me about 3 hours too.

Bob

[Highwayman2013]

I didn't have to drop or loosen that bar on the right side but I did bend down one of the tabs on that bar to make it easier for the air box to slide out.

[speedycoop]

Found the same on my magnet last fall. 2011 RT with 12,000 miles. I guess we will see what falls apart on who's machine first!

Chuck

[Lamonster]

Here's what I found.

Problem:
A small set screw may be found in the engine or the engine oil drain plug magnet.
Solution:
Inspect the oil duct cover in the RH side of the engine behind the clutch basket.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106273&d=1430048854

Repair Procedure:

To avoid draining the engine oil, make sure the vehicle is on level ground, lift the vehicle approximately 6-10 inches by placing a jack under the right lower A-arm
Remove the clutch housing following shop manual procedure for Engine Installed in Vehicle.
Remove the clutch basket and the oil duct cover.

If the set screw is damaged the oil duct cover must be replaced.
If the set screw is not damaged, clean and dry the oil duct cover and set screw with a solvant.
Apply blue loctite to the threads of the set screw and slightly torque it.


Reassemble parts removed.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106274&d=1430048855

[speedycoop]

Excellent! but what is its purpose? and is it nesscesary to re install? I am all for proper repair if it is worth the work involed.

Chuck

[finless]

Lamont THANK YOU!

However I am not sure I am up for that job. While the instructions sound easy enough it looks like that might be more than I want to do.

I will study the service manual procedure:
2.Remove the clutch housing following shop manual procedure for Engine Installed in Vehicle.
And see if any special tools etc are needed.

It says jack up the Spyder 6-10" from the right A arm. Is this saying they want me to jack it up so it is on it's side a little thus not needing to drain the oil?

Also, like someone asked. Can I ride it or should this be taken care of right away?

Thanks,
Bob

[Bob Denman]

Hi Bob,
For what little it may be worth...

...The didn't put that piece inside the engine just because they got a bunch of them for free. :shocked:
If it was my bike (It isn't...); I'd make sure that it was in the shop and repaired A.S.A.P. :thumbup:
Good Luck, and please let us know the outcome!

[finless]

By the way, I noticed a small amount of oil on the case right under the rear cylinder. That is the exact location of this oil duct cover...

This explains it! It's forcing oil at the seam of that engine cover :(

Damn.... Studying the service manual now to see if I want to tackle this job.

Bob

[finless]

OK while I could do this job, it will require some parts like seals and gaskets.
If I wasn't still under warranty I would do this myself and order the parts.

So the heck with it... Off to the dealer for warranty repair :(

Damn.... Not too happy about that as again I have no dealers around me that people trust. Closest one that people I know trust is 200 miles away.

Looks like I will be down for a while :(

Bob

[finless]

Excellent! but what is its purpose? and is it nesscesary to re install? I am all for proper repair if it is worth the work involed.

Chuck

So my .0002 cents on this.

It must be safe to ride as you would not know this came out until the oil change. Who knows how long mine has been out!
I did my last oil change at 9600 and now am at 13,999 which is why I was doing my 14K service. I have no codes or oil pressure warnings either.

One thing having this screw out, it does cause is a small oil seepage right behind the rear cylinder at the seam where the clutch housing attaches to the case. While doing my service I noticed a little oil on top of the crank case behind the rear cylinder and a little oil gunk that had built up on the left side of the motor near the drive pulley. Not a lot! But enough that I was wondering where it came from. I thought it might have been from the breather hose going up to the air box. But that was clean. Now I know where it came from and based on the gunk it's been doing it for a while.

So it appears with this screw gone there is a stream of oil being squirted up right at the clutch housing seam where it bolts to the case causing a very slight oil leak. It is such a small leak I never even saw any oil on my garage floor!

I swear if I had the gaskets and seals, I would do this job right now.

Bob

[Highwayman2013]

Glad you got it figured out. I'm going to keep an eye out for that screw on my 2012. Just over 20,000 now.

[finless]

FYI as I said above I had some oil gunk build up on top of the case behind the rear cylinder.

I took a picture of it but I had started to clean some of it up with a rag before taking the picture.
This is not from the breather hose either as that was totally clean.

Based on this amount of gunk and the slight oil leak, it has obviously been doing it for a while.

I checked my records and I did my 9600 mile service on 8/17/2014. So that screw fell out since then. Who knows how long ago!
Could have been 2 weeks ago (which I doubt based on the gunk) or 4600 miles ago! If I had to guess I would say it started about 2K miles ago or about 1/2 way into my oil change.

Thoughts from others?

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106292&d=1430066437

Bob

[finless]

Look at my old plugs after 14K.

I would say my Spyder has been running pretty good :)

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106293&d=1430066994

Bob

[Bob Denman]

:thumbup: Yup! That's a real nice color... :D

[Dennis in Lodi]

The Good: no apparent damage to the set screw. If damaged, it could start a catastrophic chain of events inside your motor.
The concern: It appears to be part of a cylinder wall oil cooling passage. I suspect the majority of the oil going through this passage chamber for cooling would be lost out the open thread. I would trailer this bike to the dealer. If the piston rings scuff from over heating, it will lead to a racing term called "black death" of the motor.

If my plugs looked like that at 14K I would probably go for custom mapping with a power comander V. I would also send the ECU in to balance and reflash the power curves. V twin manufacturers always dump too much fuel in the rear cylinder and retard the timing advance around the 4K rpm range to redline. This extra fueling and retarding help make sure the bike gets through warranty. The left plug is OK the right rear plug needs help.

My heart would have skipped a beat if I would have seen that threaded plug on the magnet. If your bike is under warranty I would not even start it. I would also ask to inspect under this cover myself for any signs of damage before they put it back together. I have been around blown racing cycle motors for 40 plus years, this is a real concern
Best of luck

[Dennis in Lodi]

:thumbup: Yup! That's a real nice color... :D
Those plugs would be OK from a carburated bike from the 80's. But from a current generation water cooled fuel injection that's a bit too dark for my taste.
I'll look on my bench for some used V-twin plugs with 30K on the and try to post.

[finless]

FYI the right plug looks exactly like the left, it's just the picture as I used a flash from my iPhone.
Considering others that have pulled plugs and the pictures I have seen. Mine is running way better than theirs. But yes the fuel mapping on the 2011 is higher than 2013 and up. I am not doing any custom commander stuff sorry. It's staying stock.
Also another top notch dealer Mech (Shawn Smoak) saw my plugs and thinks I am running just fine.

As for the set screw falling out and trailering it. Seems the BRP bulletin just says "if you find that on an oil change" to do the procedure. Considering the only way to know this happened is on a oil change, I am going to ride it to the dealer. For sure I already put miles on it with this missing, another 25 miles I doubt is going to make much difference.

I also plan to call BRP about it Monday AM for advise.

Bob

[finless]

Here is a better picture of the plugs under good lighting.

I will admit even this photo shows the right plug in my hand as more fouled but with your eyes they look almost the same. So the iPhone camera seems to make things worse than they look to the naked eye.


http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106302&d=1430075926

Bob

[finless]

And yes folks... those cuts (actually they are scratches just look worse than they are) on my hand are from trying to get the freaking air box out!

Bob

[finless]

I would also ask to inspect under this cover myself for any signs of damage before they put it back together. I have been around blown racing cycle motors for 40 plus years, this is a real concern
Best of luck

Inspect for what? That they put the screw back in?

Bob

[DrewNJ]

Those plugs look fine Bob. They are a touch on the rich side for sure but it's not dirty rich. Also, the bit of extra fuel helps these motors run a bit cooler. I wouldn't touch ANYTHING in regards to the tuning.

Keep us posted on how it all plays out with the set screw!

[finless]

OK did some research on the lubrication circuit.

No worry about cylinder lubrication. A little worry about the countershaft.

Also Shawn chatted to me about this and his comment was:


looks as though the top-end is being fed first. The oil is entering the top of the oil duct cover and going down to feed the countershaft. With the screw missing, it could lowering the overall oil pressure.

Also this was not a service bulletin but just a post on BOSSweb which is BRP's dealer forum.

I thank Lamont to the bottom of my heart for helping identify this issue as he spent the time to go on the BRP forum and find it!!!!

THANK YOU Lamont! :bowdown:

106307

106308

Bob

[finless]

Can I just say after all this.... I am a little bummed out :(

My Spyder has been perfect and I have taken care of it extremely well as far as general maintenance goes.

To have this happen totally bums me out today knowing that I have to see a dealer at 14K.
I was hoping to never see a dealer ever in the life of me owning my Spyder (Darth). Alas... it's not to be :(

It's causing me to reflect on owning a Spyder to be honest when a simple set screw can put me down. No car or other vehicle I have ever owned has done this to me. I put 90K miles on a Honda 750-4 in 1970's with not a single issue.

Anyway to try and have some fun about this but still not being happy, I feel like Bob Denman on this day :(

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106333&d=1430095530

So now it's time for me too to deal with a dealer.

After Darth is fixed, if I ever have another BS problem like this I think I will be done with Can-Am / BRP products.

Not being harsh but I like being happy with my ride!

If I am not, then how can someone enjoy a ride that brings grief like this?... :(

I love my Spyder don't get me wrong! But having something as a simple set screw take me out, in my opinion, is not cool. It makes me think this is not going to be a reliable product for the long run :(

I am hoping after this is fixed, I don't have any more issues for miles to come.


Bob

[tigerdr]

Stay calm and optimist Bob. The dealer will do the repair and your next ride will be the best you ever done.

Remember, nothing goes wrong with your Spyder before you find that set screw on the magnet. I have the same feeling about my Spyder 3 months after I purchase my 2010 bike. An oil leak at the water pump seal made me down for 2-3 months. Since, and after 85000 kilometers without any trouble, I am very very happy with my Spyder. Next year, a new 2016 RTS is already on the Santa Claus list.

[finless]

Stay calm and optimist Bob. The dealer will do the repair and your next ride will be the best you ever done.

Remember, nothing goes wrong with your Spyder before you find that set screw on the magnet. I have the same feeling about my Spyder 3 months after I purchase my 2010 bike. An oil leak at the water pump seal made me down for 2-3 months. Since, and after 85000 kilometers without any trouble, I am very very happy with my Spyder. Next year, a new 2016 RTS is already on the Santa Claus list.

No offense but if I was down for 2-3 months, that would be it for me period.

Thanks for the upbeat confidence. I will try to stay in there.

Bob

[Bfromla]

Having read a number of you post, you rather capable person , just roll with the punches & bounce back:bbq: Learn from it and share with us please.
thx
b

[Lamonster]

Also this was not a service bulletin but just a post on BOSSweb which is BRP's dealer forum.

I thank Lamont to the bottom of my heart for helping identify this issue as he spent the time to go on the BRP forum and find it!!!!

THANK YOU Lamont! :bowdown:

Bob

I'm sorry you had this problem but don't let it sour you on the Spyder, things built by humans fail sometimes and guys like us find it as a challenge. I do agree that this is a job best left for the dealer seeing it's covered anyway. Glad I was able to point you in the right direction. :doorag:

[Bob Denman]

[QUOTE=finless;967707]
Anyway to try and have some fun about this but still not being happy, I feel like Bob Denman on this day :(

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106333&d=1430095530


HEY!! :D I resemble that remark!! :roflblack:
Seriously; if your bike has been this good for this long... Don't get ready to leave Town just because ONE Bear pooped in your petunias! :thumbup:

[Woodsrider]

Hopefully they get you in and out quick. I'm thinkin I may should dive in and check mine and do the loctite 'just in case'. Seems our BRP friends should put a service bulletin out to do just that if it's happened more than once, which it apparently has.

FOD running through the engine on it's way to the sump can do bad things...

[finless]

Well it's going in tomorrow AM. Talked to the dealer today.
One thing that alarmed me so far is the service writer was quoting to me pre-2012 service schedule!!! e.g. 3,000 mile oil changes etc. I corrected him and said your talking about the old service schedule! I said BRP changed that in 2012.... He then corrected himself....

Hmmmmm I did not find that too good...

Good thing is when I talked to the Mech, he knew what I was talking about. The Mech at this dealer comes reccomended so I am going to forget the service writers education level and trust the Mech.

Bob

[Bob Denman]

:2thumbs: Glad to hear that the plan is coming together... :clap:
Please let us know the outcome; Good Luck!! :thumbup:

[dlby]

Well I feel for you

Just joined the three wheel group in Nov.

Such an awesome running, feeling machine---

But Since bout 1973 most all my machines & there have been many & variety of brands
Last 17 years even HD with only one issue (top dead center sensor) Road king

Still have high hopes that our se6 is a gem
Any way we do feel for ya

Hope they would tell me if that showed up on oil change ---

I switch back & forth normaly on doing service on machines
3k first service due in 400 mi---

[NorCalBud]

Bob, You state that you're doing your 14k maintenance. Aren't you in California and have a '11? Doesn't that put your scheduled maintenance at 12k? I'm also in Cali and want to ensure that I'm not missing something...
Thanks!

[finless]

Bob, You state that you're doing your 14k maintenance. Aren't you in California and have a '11? Doesn't that put your scheduled maintenance at 12k? I'm also in Cali and want to ensure that I'm not missing something...
Thanks!

Seems this comes up a lot. BRP revised the service schedule for 2008-2012 Spyders. They did this in 2012!!!

Now the schedule is every 4600 miles. When BRP first released this schedule it said EXCEPT California. But a later memo did not exclude California!

Bob

[finless]

Sniff, sniff... :shocked:

Darth is at the dealer now. Now awaiting how long it will take based on any possible parts they do not have and will need to order....

NorCalBud, I did chat with Niles at Bert's about the service schedule. They are going to confirm the Ca. thing. Either way if Ca. is excluded, it's because of Ca. EPA reasons not because there is a strange vortex in Ca. causing service schedules to be different :)

FYI if you want the Service Bulletin that went to dealers AND the letter that went to users/customers. Here is a ZIP containing both.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9BFwCzfMWZ8ZFdTeGdsT0Y5N2c/view?usp=sharing


Bob

[Bob Denman]

Hang in there... :thumbup:

I feel your pain. :(

Try sleeping later, watching more reality shows, and NOT calling the dealer every seventeen minutes for updates... :shocked:

[finless]

Hang in there... :thumbup:

I feel your pain. :(

Try sleeping later, watching more reality shows, and NOT calling the dealer every seventeen minutes for updates... :shocked:

Boy I sure wanted to call them yesterday afternoon for a status, but I refrained :)

Bob

[billybovine]

Boy I sure wanted to call them yesterday afternoon for a status, but I refrained :)

Bob

It's hard to let someone else work on it. It will likely have a good outcome. Then you start to imagine bad scenarios happening like the job being assigned to the new apprentice they hired last week. :shocked:

[Roadster Renovations]

Hang in there, Bob!

[SpyderCruiser]

Bob,
This really sucks, and I feel for you. But on the positive side with all the gears in there, you are lucky the screw did not wedge between the gears and cause major damage. Keep the faith, Take Care.

[finless]

Thanks folks!
A little worried I have not heard from the dealer yet about the warranty claim.....
I will wait till this afternoon and call then.

Bob

[tigerdr]

No news... is good news...

[finless]

Just got a call from the dealer. Good news is BRP acknowledged the warranty work. Bad news as I suspected, the dealer doesn't have the clutch housing gasket and seals in stock. I figured that would be the case but its understandable. Now outlook for my Spyder to be fixed is mid next week. If all goes well, looks like I will be able to ride the Bert's canyon cruise May 9th. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Bob

[NorCalBud]

Sniff, sniff... :shocked:
Darth is at the dealer now. Now awaiting how long it will take based on any possible parts they do not have and will need to order....
NorCalBud, I did chat with Niles at Bert's about the service schedule. They are going to confirm the Ca. thing. Either way if Ca. is excluded, it's because of Ca. EPA reasons not because there is a strange vortex in Ca. causing service schedules to be different :)
FYI if you want the Service Bulletin that went to dealers AND the letter that went to users/customers. Here is a ZIP containing both.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9BFwCzfMWZ8ZFdTeGdsT0Y5N2c/view?usp=sharing

Bob

Thanks for the info Bob! I somehow missed that info, but that's exactly why I asked about it. I just turned 12k miles and have been attempting to stay current with the schedule. But a 2k mile reprieve can sure help when I have Spyder, car and Truck Insurance due this month. :(
I'm glad things are working out well for you so far regarding the "foreign matter".
Thanks again!

[finless]

Finless is not happy being Spyderless :(

Would have loved to have gone for a ride this weekend......

Hopefully only a few more days and I will have it back :yes:

Bob

[Bob Denman]

Maybe you can hang out in the showroom; bumming test rides on all of the bikes... :D
Don't forget to drink up ALL of the coffee, eat every donut, ad ask a gazillion questions to anybody within earshot...

They'll find a way to get the parts, and get you out of there! :roflblack:

Good Luck! :thumbup:

[jthornton]

Just curious did you do the valve lash check?

JT

[finless]

Just curious did you do the valve lash check?

JT

Yes I figured since they are going to tear it down I am having everything done now for the 14K service except what I had already done (plugs and wires). My estimate is $900 not counting my SRA-LA discount and of course minus the warranty work for the set screw.

I also did an oil change and they think they will be able to do everything without dumping it but I told them to do it if they had any indication they needed to since the valve covers will be off.

Bob

[billybovine]

Yes I figured since they are going to tear it down I am having everything done now for the 14K service except what I had already done (plugs and wires). My estimate is $900 not counting my SRA-LA discount and of course minus the warranty work for the set screw.

I also did an oil change and they think they will be able to do everything without dumping it but I told them to do it if they had any indication they needed to since the valve covers will be off.

Bob

Since the valve covers are off did you tell them to fix the oil in the air box issue you said you had in another post. It is a reasonably easy fix.

[finless]

Since the valve covers are off did you tell them to fix the oil in the air box issue you said you had in another post. It is a reasonably easy fix.

The oil leak was not from the air box. It was caused by oil squirting from that set screw hole forcing it up between the clutch housing the and engine case. It was not from the air box.

Bob

[billybovine]

The oil leak was not from the air box. It was caused by oil squirting from that set screw hole forcing it up between the clutch housing the and engine case. It was not from the air box.

Bob
I know that. In another thread a couple of weeks ago in a discussion about excessive oil in the air box. I thought it was you that said that posted that you had this problem. If so time good to fix it.

[finless]

Awe CRAP! :dontknow:

Well talked to my dealer today.

Best case I wont get my Spyder till Friday now.
I kind of expected that due to the job needed with removing the clutch housing and for SURE I do not want them to be rushed.

In the end I have a feeling I may not be riding at the Bert's Canyon ride this year here in SoCal. :(

It's better to have my Spyder done right than rushed for this ride and I told them that!!!!
I told Bryan (the service manager), it needs to be RIGHT not half assed as I am extremely picky and will be checking their work.

We agreed that Friday was a best case scenario but agreed I as a customer won't be upset if not. Again I want it done right not rushed for a ride my dealer is SPONSORING this weekend!!!!!


In the end I was hoping that my entire Spyder ownership life I would not need a warranty call and work done. Pisses me off that one little set screw caused all this grief and leads to a MAJOR TEAR DOWN of my Spyder's engine :(

I will just say that now I am not sure the reliability of the Spyder is not in question.
Earlier I thought all these warranty claims were a figment of being online. e.g you hear more about the problems online than the people that don't have problems...
Alas, add me to the list of being a Spyder owner AND having to see a dealer for a issue requiring MAJOR work. :(
I do not like that as to DATE, I have never owned anything that something like this happened! No car, no previous motorcycle, NADA!


I was chatting with my wife over last weekend, and if I honestly get one more issue like this, I am done and going to pick up something else. If my dealer screws this work up, that will be it for me and BRP. It's at a platinum dealer and should get done properly (yet,,,, I am worried). Sorry, but I cannot go through this again!

If you cannot trust what you ride, then the fun of riding goes bye bye...

Sorry to be negative but alas, not that happy right now :(

I am hoping this is a one time occurrence and the rest of my Spyder ownership will be good! :)

Bob

[AbNormy]

Bob they'll get you running right they know they better! You're a celebrity! They could at least give you a loaner to ride if they don't finish it on time!

[finless]

Bob they'll get you running right they know they better! You're a celebrity! They could at least give you a loaner to ride if they don't finish it on time!

When I get a status today I will ask about the possibility of a loaner for the ride.

As for the celebrity thing (which I am not in my opinion). I doubt my dealer even knows anything about me (I am sure they don't in fact) and thus I doubt I would get any special handling over any other customer. But thanks for the positive thinking :)



Bob

[Highwayman2013]

Bob, our dealer here lent an F3S to Rick last weekend, it doesn't hurt to ask.

[finless]

Bob, our dealer here lent an F3S to Rick last weekend, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Yes I saw all that on facebook.. That was cool they did that!

Bob

[finless]

And the saga continues....

I wont have it now till Saturday AM (my choice and I wont go into why).

One thing I learned from this is service managers can be full of hoowie!!! They are sales men that don't really know the answer and like to "sell you that they are taking care of you". Well not trying to say all are but in this case, this one was....

When I called at 10:30 AM today for a status, the manager said "Oh yea... the tech is about ready to button it up!".
I said "OK I can be there about 2:00". He paused and then said, "end of the day"

WTH? How do you go from just about ready to button it up to end of the day?

So 2 hours later I called and this time asked specifically asked for the service writer I first worked with (I guess the assistant manager).
He said "The tech has about 5-6 hours more work and just started this AM. It might be ready by the end of the day".
I am like WHAT!!!! :yikes:
I said to him, your manager told me on Tuesday the parts arrived and the tech started that day!!!!!

I hate BS slinging to put off having to listen to a customer complain. JUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!
I would not have been upset if the manager just told me on Tuesday they could not start till Thursday and explain why..... Yes I would not have been happy but I would have understood! Sheesh :banghead:

I mean come on... I realize a service manager has to balance customer satisfaction and getting the job done. My bike is not the only one in the shop being worked on... I get it.... But to flat out BS... Someone needs to teach these people real customer service... Sometimes you have to tell the BAD with the good and have the people skills to deal with someone that may not be happy about the parts being in but that you cannot start the work for 2 more days... Don't lie to a customer just to get out of having to deal with them not being happy, it just bites you in the tail end later anyway!
So you know why I say this. I was a Customer Field Service person for Xerox for years. I know how to treat customers and workload demands! Telling them the truth thus building a long term trust, is way better than spinning tangled webs!

OK so sorry for my rant.... I fully trust the tech at this dealer but if I ever have to go there again, I will avoid the service manager and talk to the people doing the work to get the straight poop.

Anyway, there is light at the end of the tunnel :)

Now just to hope it all got done right.......

Bob

[garb55]

Good luck
hope everything goes well
And you can rant about not telling the truth all you want because I hate it if they give me a line of BS
and if I find out about it I usually go to their boss:lecturef_smilie:

[AbNormy]

Like we got the wherewithal to buy spyders cause we're dumb?

[billybovine]

And the saga continues....

I wont have it now till Saturday AM (my choice and I wont go into why).

One thing I learned from this is service managers can be full of hoowie!!! They are sales men that don't really know the answer and like to "sell you that they are taking care of you". Well not trying to say all are but in this case, this one was....

When I called at 10:30 AM today for a status, the manager said "Oh yea... the tech is about ready to button it up!".
I said "OK I can be there about 2:00". He paused and then said, "end of the day"

WTH? How do you go from just about ready to button it up to end of the day?

So 2 hours later I called and this time asked specifically asked for the service writer I first worked with (I guess the assistant manager).
He said "The tech has about 5-6 hours more work and just started this AM. It might be ready by the end of the day".
I am like WHAT!!!! :yikes:
I said to him, your manager told me on Tuesday the parts arrived and the tech started that day!!!!!

I hate BS slinging to put off having to listen to a customer complain. JUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!
I would not have been upset if the manager just told me on Tuesday they could not start till Thursday and explain why..... Yes I would not have been happy but I would have understood! Sheesh :banghead:

I mean come on... I realize a service manager has to balance customer satisfaction and getting the job done. My bike is not the only one in the shop being worked on... I get it.... But to flat out BS... Someone needs to teach these people real customer service... Sometimes you have to tell the BAD with the good and have the people skills to deal with someone that may not be happy about the parts being in but that you cannot start the work for 2 more days... Don't lie to a customer just to get out of having to deal with them not being happy, it just bites you in the tail end later anyway!
So you know why I say this. I was a Customer Field Service person for Xerox for years. I know how to treat customers and workload demands! Telling them the truth thus building a long term trust, is way better than spinning tangled webs!

OK so sorry for my rant.... I fully trust the tech at this dealer but if I ever have to go there again, I will avoid the service manager and talk to the people doing the work to get the straight poop.

Anyway, there is light at the end of the tunnel :)

Now just to hope it all got done right.......

Bob

I agree with you about service dept. Just tell the truth it will be a lot easier in the end. Telling the Customer what they think they want hear just does not build trust.

I hope that light at the end of the tunnel is not a train. :roflblack:

[finless]

Funny Billy funny.....

So just a little reasoning why I decided to pick it up Saturday morning instead of today.

Saturday morning is a ride with hundreds of Spyders that my dealer is sponsoring. I go every year. I don't want to say the dealers name but you all smart people can figure it out if you want :)

Anyway, today a bad weather system is going through and it was predicted yesterday. Even the service writer told me yesterday he was not going to ride in either. High winds and big down pours of rain. Last night was crazy too! At about 1:00 AM a small twister came through here.... Do damage or anything but sounded like a freight train. Pretty scary for Ca.

Anyway on to my reasoning. I could pick it up today and ride in the rain. But then I thought,,,,, if I have any post service issues and breakdown, it wont be fun standing in the rain on the side of some freeway waiting for a tow!
Tomorrow there is no rain and the storm will have passed. For the BIG RIDE, the dealer will be having chase trucks that can tow Spyders. Also the ride is through twisties and up a mountain from sea level to almost 6,000 feet! So it will be a somewhat hard ride. I figure if something screws up, it will happen on this ride and a chase truck can get me back to the same dealer it was fixed at! So I pick up my Spyder that morning 1 hour before the ride starts!

Not a bad deal aye? I am going to ride my Spyder as hard as I can :)

I guess in the end, this turned out to be pretty good timing wouldn't you say?

Bob

[tigerdr]

Bob, have a good and safe ride tomorrow.

:doorag:

[finless]

Bob, have a good and safe ride tomorrow.

:doorag:

Thanks! I hope too!

Here is how many were at the ride last year. I expect it will be more this year. If I breakdown, pretty sure all will be OK :)

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107136&d=1431098136

[AbNormy]

Keep us posted

[finless]

The day has come! :yes:

See you all on the other side... :roflblack:

Bob

[finless]

OK so final news on this one.....

My Dealer did a great job! After I picked it up Saturday morning and went on the dealer sponsored ride.... I rode it like I stole it to make sure all was good....

Here is just one segment of the ride yesterday. If you want to see more, see my youtube channel.

Oh and "tail of the dragon"? Ha..... Come to California if you want some real roads :)

I am sure I will get some interesting comments from this video ;)

But I would say my Spyder if fixed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk8pMhNito

[jcthorne]

Great vid. So glad you got it fixed.:thumbup:

[tigerdr]

Glad to hear your Spyder is fixed and run well.

[AbNormy]

Me too, is this setscrew problem unique? Anybody else have this happen to them? I've got an SE and gotten used to having to add almost 2 qts between changes don't see any drips anywhere figured it just burns it. Was a little oil bottom of my airbox when I washed my K&N not much really

[AbNormy]

The day has come! :yes:

See you all on the other side... :roflblack:

Bob
Anyone else have this happen?

[Tango]

Bob, glad it all worked out well. :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

[johnwinslow]

Can I just say after all this.... I am a little bummed out :(

My Spyder has been perfect and I have taken care of it extremely well as far as general maintenance goes.

To have this happen totally bums me out today knowing that I have to see a dealer at 14K.
I was hoping to never see a dealer ever in the life of me owning my Spyder (Darth). Alas... it's not to be :(

It's causing me to reflect on owning a Spyder to be honest when a simple set screw can put me down. No car or other vehicle I have ever owned has done this to me. I put 90K miles on a Honda 750-4 in 1970's with not a single issue.

Anyway to try and have some fun about this but still not being happy, I feel like Bob Denman on this day :(

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106333&d=1430095530

So now it's time for me too to deal with a dealer.

After Darth is fixed, if I ever have another BS problem like this I think I will be done with Can-Am / BRP products.

Not being harsh but I like being happy with my ride!

If I am not, then how can someone enjoy a ride that brings grief like this?... :(

I love my Spyder don't get me wrong! But having something as a simple set screw take me out, in my opinion, is not cool. It makes me think this is not going to be a reliable product for the long run :(

I am hoping after this is fixed, I don't have any more issues for miles to come.


Bob OK Bob chill, if you had not put the magnetic oil plugs in, the set screw would never have been detected, and you would have driven it in a stste of bliss until you rode the F3 and traded yours in for a new bike:joke:

[garb55]

OK so final news on this one.....

My Dealer did a great job! After I picked it up Saturday morning and went on the dealer sponsored ride.... I rode it like I stole it to make sure all was good....

Here is just one segment of the ride yesterday. If you want to see more, see my youtube channel.

Oh and "tail of the dragon"? Ha..... Come to California if you want some real roads :)

I am sure I will get some interesting comments from this video ;)

But I would say my Spyder if fixed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk8pMhNito

You are right about California roads :clap:
Where I live there are a few passes that are steep, winding, and if you miss a turn its a 500 to 1,000 ft. drop:yikes:
just a few:
Tioga Pass [10,000 ft.] to Yosemite national park
Sonora Pass [10,000 ft.] to the central valley
Monitor Pass [9,000ft.] to Lake Tahoe
and more
Don

[Firefly]

Seems this comes up a lot. BRP revised the service schedule for 2008-2012 Spyders. They did this in 2012!!!

Now the schedule is every 4600 miles. When BRP first released this schedule it said EXCEPT California. But a later memo did not exclude California!

Bob

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 'new' maintenance schedule require you to get the 'upgraded' oil filter setup?

I never did it because I have a few of the regular filters laying around.... and I ride pretty hard so I don't mind changing oil every 3,000... which I often stretch to 3,500 ish....

[finless]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 'new' maintenance schedule require you to get the 'upgraded' oil filter setup?

I never did it because I have a few of the regular filters laying around.... and I ride pretty hard so I don't mind changing oil every 3,000... which I often stretch to 3,500 ish....

Mine is a SM5 so I do not have the tranny oil filter.

Bob

[Firefly]

Mine is a SM5 so I do not have the tranny oil filter.

Bob

Mine is an SM5 as well.
I'm talking about the upgraded oil filter that BRP came out with that requires a different cap. That was how they were increasing the timeframe between oil changes if memory serves.

[finless]

Mine is an SM5 as well.
I'm talking about the upgraded oil filter that BRP came out with that requires a different cap. That was how they were increasing the timeframe between oil changes if memory serves.

I thought that was for the HCM filter (tranny) not the main engine filter. SE5's have 2 filters. SM5's do not.

I will see if I still have the service bulletin and make sure but pretty sure they increased the size of the tranny filer not the main. Double checking now.

Bob

[finless]

OK so it is the tranny filter and cap for the SE5.

They did change the part number of the engine oil filter (a material change) but they did not change the size and the engine cover cap.

As you can see in this post by Lamont, the new larger filter and cap is for the HCM (tranny).

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?40092-FYI-New-filters-and-Maintenance-Schedule-for-ALL-Spyders

Bob

[Firefly]

OK so it is the tranny filter and cap for the SE5.

They did change the part number of the engine oil filter (a material change) but they did not change the size and the engine cover cap.

As you can see in this post by Lamont, the new larger filter and cap is for the HCM (tranny).

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?40092-FYI-New-filters-and-Maintenance-Schedule-for-ALL-Spyders

Bob

Okay... I knew there was some new cap for a filter. So it seems you can just swap to the new engine filter then if you want longer periods between oil changes.. if you're on an SM5 like you and I. I'll have to use up my stock of 'old' filters before making the change.

[finless]

I get my filters from Baja Ron and he said they support this extended duration.

Been using them after my first 600 mile service.

Bob

[JerryS]

Just found set Screw on my plug at my service at LaMonster Garage today June 1st 2018. Hate to think of the bill on this one.

[speedycoop]

Found mine on the magnet 10,000 miles ago, still working fine.(also a 2011 RT) Did not see the need to tear it down for just for that plug. Do you feel lucky?

[finless]

It's a oil pass block off screw and it needs to be fixed. It greatly lowers the oil pressure to parts of the engine.
Don't get it fixed and you are risking your engine or at least reducing it's life.
Also, when mine did this I started seeing a lot of oil on the top of the crank case behind the #2 cylinder because it caused a leak at the engine seal. If you look at the picture you will see it will squirt high pressure oil right at the gasket seal of the clutch case.

Personally, I would have your dealer call BRP and see if this can get done even out of warranty. IT'S A KNOWN FAULT!

Good luck!

Bob

[finless]

Just found set Screw on my plug at my service at LaMonster Garage today June 1st 2018. Hate to think of the bill on this one.

Are they going to fix it? Sorry to hear you had this happen. :(


Bob

[speedycoop]

My dealer did not give me the option to have BRP warranty the job and that was 4 years ago. I will roll the dice! Last I checked it did not look like oil was pushing through in that area.

[stmike 1800]

Thanks! I hope too!

Here is how many were at the ride last year. I expect it will be more this year. If I breakdown, pretty sure all will be OK :)

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107136&d=1431098136
that is a ***** load of spyders.

[finless]

My dealer did not give me the option to have BRP warranty the job and that was 4 years ago. I will roll the dice! Last I checked it did not look like oil was pushing through in that area.

4 years ago you should have been covered under the standard BRP warranty...

Well, your Spyder will be a case study... I hope you ride it a lot....

Bob

[speedycoop]

I have a couple of two wheel bikes I ride when I am by myself. The RT get used when the wife and I go on overnight or local day rides. I plan on keeping the RT for the long run so if any thing changes or happens I will report back.

Chuck

[Oldtimer51]

That is exactly the same thing that I found during my oil change attached to the oil drain plug. Looks like this is more common than I would consider normal for the inside of an engine. Very sad to see this. My trike is too old to be under any warranty so I hope this does not mean that oher parts inside the engine will be falling appart until the engine fails completely.

[Oldtimer51]

Sorry to hear about this "Set screw problem". I was hopping that the one I found this week after the 5000 oil change was just a fluke during manufacturing and not a regular occurrance in these motors. I am not sure if BRP recognized the problem and is authorizing the dealers to fix the problem or if they are washing their hands and telling the owners good luck with your problem???? Any suggestions are appreciated. (Mine is a 2011 RTStandard.) with only 5000 miles on it. I am the second owner and I put 2K miles in it since we purchased 6 weeks ago.

[carbonation]

That set screw is also posted here..
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?94356-Parts-left-over-after-oil-change

[speedycoop]

A couple more years and another 5,000 mi. no problems yet from the missing screw ( it does not get babied).

Chuck

[Oldtimer51]

Bob, Wondering if you filed your case with NHSA, Even if it was repaired by the manufacturing company under warranty. It is a good idea to file and accumulate some historical cases. Here is the place you can file:YOU CAN FILE ANY DEFECTS OR SAFETY CONCERNS AT THIS LINK: https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls THE NATIONAL Highway Safety Administration. Be as specific as possible when you file a report. The more people file the more your concerns are likely to be investigated by the manufacturing company. Thanks for your postings I used them to supplement my filing case. Hope you are happy with the results. My case was denied repairs by BRP.

[Oldtimer51]

Speedycoop. please don't forget to file your case with NHTSA. It is important to create a record of these failures by the manufacturing company #BRP. My Spyder had the same problem and BRP refused so far to cover the repair that apparently is not that dificul but costly labor and parts. I was quoted $550 to get it taken apart by the dealer and I refused since mine is still running. YOU CAN FILE ANY DEFECTS OR SAFETY CONCERNS AT THIS LINK: https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls THE NATIONAL Highway Safety Administration. Be as specific as possible when you file a report. The more people file the more more your concerns are likely to be investigated by BRP and possibly resolved even on the older spyders. Yours is the third one that I am aware of that has same loose screw problem. You can add the photos from Bob's case.

[speedycoop]

Oldtimer51, how did it go with BRP? How many oil duct screws got tossed or inadvertently wiped off the drain plug and never seen or still stuck in the motor somewhere? Makes you wonder.

[peterRT]

Hi Bob", and yeah the AirBox was a pain in the arse LOL when I put new spark plugs in my Spyder too,


Regards Peter

[paraflyer1966]

Well folks, looks like I may be joining this club....2012 RT-S with a hair over 30k on the odo. It's developed this leak. Out of warranty, and I'm a backyard mechanic as best and this just may be outta my league due to lack of time and most likely not all the correct tools. I'll place a call to Blackman's Cycle (Emmaus PA) and see if I can get a rough estimate for parts and labor.

Sucks, too....I was able to do sooo much on my own this past spring (airbox now gone thanx to JT, new plugs and wiring from Lamonster, full coolant flush, all brake lines flushed (yes I do have BUDS so the ABS got done too), replaced rear sprocket due to the Red Death).

[boblstewart]

I just purchased a 2011 RT with only 8000 miles. This past weekend I foun the set screw stuck to the drain plug when changing the oil. There doesn’t seem to be any conclusion in the thread whether or not the repair is necessary. Any further thoughts after time has gone by?